General Partner Treating Me Bad... To What Extent Can Ptsd Be His ''excuse''?

[p-no]

A million Likes for kahlan's post.

 

[kahlan]

O, I thought of something else...those "nice things" tend to pop up around when he knows he's pushed too hard and you're done right?...Typical abusive behavior. Break you down then reel you back in with promises and cuddles just to repeat the cycle. You've made a pattern that he is using to manipulate further. You leave, he promises the moon, you come back, you leave, then he tells you he has a disorder knowing you'll feel a need to take care of him, cycle continues. Only you can end it.

 

[DeedeeRSM]

DeeDee,

The partial title of your post was: "To What Extent Can PTSD be His Excuse?"

The answer is zero, zip, none, nada, nil, noonka!

Hi Drew, really interesting things you said here..

I tried doing some research on ''hovering'' but the only thing I found was that it means going back and forth, altering between mental states, could you enlighten me a bit how it would expose itself, as in symptoms, or behaviours? I read about gas lighting as well, but I don't think I'm able to see it yet, as it's still all very fresh in my mind, so it seems at the moment that it hasn't happened..(on the net, all the examples I see of gas lighting are about people lying about where they put things, or what they did or did not say)

 

[DeedeeRSM]

O, I thought of something else...those "nice things" tend to pop up around when he knows he's pushed too hard and you're done right?...Typical abusive behavior. Break you down then reel you back in with promises and cuddles just to repeat the cycle. You've made a pattern that he is using to manipulate further. You leave, he promises the moon, you come back, you leave, then he tells you he has a disorder knowing you'll feel a need to take care of him, cycle continues. Only you can end it.

Hi Kahlan, the nice things usually come when I reach a breaking point. For example, he never used to want to go anywhere with me, because he's always tired..so I booked a trip for myself alone in the end, since I was tired of nagging months on end just to go to 1 place I want to see...He said I don't want you to go alone, so I guess I'll have to come with you, and I know it will be fun anyway since everything we do together is always fun..

 

[DeedeeRSM]

Guys, all of you, this is helping me so much...I can't thank you enough, please keep your insights coming...

I've been on other forums (regular love forums) and when you start talking about PTSD everybody gets all defensive that I shouldn't be so insensitive to his condition etc.

Thats partially the reason why I have been in such a mind twisting dialogue with myself...whether it was his conditions speaking or him...and whether I should feel guilty or not..

But reading the experiences of you guys, who have been through the same things and others who suffer from PTSD yourselves, it all makes sense to me now little by little...I think I found true support here

 

[DMerish]

Sorry DeeDee :( My bad: Hovering is spelled hoovering (with two o's, not one). Try "hoovering" and see what you get. I just googled it and got several "hits" - apply the info to what you know about your situation. Not everything you read will apply to your case.

Basically, hoovering is when one person uses emotional/sentimental reasons (or excuses) as a means to manipulate their partner in giving them what they want, i.e. money, sex, pity, gifts/favors, doing or feeling something the partner doesn't particularily feel like doing or feeling and/or transferring their own feelings (of guilt, or blame) on to their partner. Hoovering has more to do with persuasion/emotion. For instance: I'm sick, have PTSD, have a hard on, can't sleep and can't do anything about these things. You're supposed to understand and do something to fix my issue. And if you don't then then that means don't love me.

Here's a link that describes gaslighting (although not too well) in a nutshell. http://jebrown.us/Relationshop/Definitions/gaslighting.html I'm sure you can find more on the topic.

Hoovering frequently blends and transfers into gaslighting. Gaslighting is like hoovering on steroids with the steroid mixture being logic and deliberate deception. You made juice for your boyfriend in the morning; you're boyfriend didn't want it; you drank the juice; your boyfriend wanted juice in the evening; you offered to make it for him. Your boyfriend separated one fact from the others then logically came to the conclusion that you're selfish and told you so. Problem is/was that the logic your boyfriend used was faulty logic, and you bought it. Think about it, DeeDee. Two thoughtful unselfish acts by you (making the juice in the a.m. and offering to make it in the p.m.) minus one selfish act (drinking the a.m. juice that was intended for your boyfriend but he refused it) does not equal you being selfish!

You're here now on this forum because you know something's not right. You've come looking for help and understanding. Often, when the vicitm realizes that hoovering has been played upon them the victim will begin refusing to play the game, i.e. they will recognize that things being said are not accurate, things are off-base, or conclusions were formed from faulty logic rather than reason. It's a crazy time - figuring all of that out in your head, and wanting to know why it's happening makes it an even more difficult. What's going on IS crazy, and you feel bad about yourself, and you feel bad for your partner.

This is exactly where the abuser wants you . . . in some sick way, if you feel bad, the abuser feels good. If you bring to light what's going on and tell the abuser, it will make them feel bad (maybe) and a little suspecious of themself. In most cases, the abuser will react strongly - they will sort of overlook what was said and go into a tirade of how you are crazy. << Now that's gaslighting!

 

[DeedeeRSM]

Yes yes yesss, both terms make sense now! and its so applicable to my situation that its not even funny anymore..
if it ever where..

I consider myself an educated smart person and I had to stop and really think about the theories above you described!
It really is complex!

also, i feel kind of stupid that a ''smart person'' like myself got up in this trap.
weird thing is, i still believe he loves me and part of me still hopes that if i tell him about how i know about how he treats me, he will realize and adjust. but he probably wont right..im being too hopeful for a hopeless situation, after all that has happened even.

he always says how he wants to marry me once things are going well between us, yet we ve been together for three years and still arent living together...

i dont know how i will do this, but i need to learn to put myself first and my guilt and remorse (over nothing :S) last.
im definitely going to dive into the study of gaslighting and hoovering to start with

 

[DMerish]

i feel kind of stupid that a ''smart person'' like myself got up in this trap.

I felt like that also, then one day realized I'm actually a smart person to realize what happened and made my escape.

Good luck.

 

[CrazyHorse]

Hi Deedee, I am one of the sufferers who did reply. The main reason my reply being kind of blunt and short, was because I get frustrated, sad and annoyed when yet another human being treat their partner (and/or others) the way you discribed, and hide it all behind the name of PTSD. I gives us sufferes a bad image.

However, it is not easy to live with PTSD and the condition does put a strain on a relationship. I am in a relationship myself and I can tell you how I (we) deal with the condition: I do not lie, I do not cheat, I do not manipulate, I do not blameshift, I do not belittle him, I do not call him names, I do not abuse him, verbally or psychially, I do not make him worried by isolating without a word. I treat him with respect, love and understanding. We talk to each other. We work through the problems PTSD causes, and we grow stronger together. And I do work so hard on dealing and controlling my PTSD symptoms. Every day.

P.s. reading your description of his behaviour, a disorder did come to mind: NPD (narcissistic personality disorder).

 

[HëllaBubz]

he always says how he wants to marry me once things are going well between us, yet we ve been together for three years and still arent living together...

Pardon the expletive....oh f*ck. Chills went down my spine when I read that, truthfully, what you are describing is EXACTLY what my ex used to do with me.

Picture this if you can......petulant child (him) with a yoyo (you), he plays with you for a while, gets the string tangled up, and starts yelling at the stupid yoyo because it's all the yoyo's fault for getting tangled up.....other times he'll laugh, and just fix it, other times he'll throw a fit and throw it away or stomp on it.

And when it's in the mud, looking battered and he felt something give under his foot when he stomped on it, he stops and picks it up, dusts it off and plays with it nicely for a while, because he doesn't REALLY want to screw it up permanently, otherwise he'd have nothing to bash up!

i dont know how i will do this, but i need to learn to put myself first and my guilt and remorse (over nothing :S) last. im definitely going to dive into the study of gaslighting and hoovering to start with

Absolutely.
Now PLEASE....don't fall into the trap of thinking that you are starting to understand, and therefore can make a difference and fix things. You can't, but it's going to have to take an 'aha' moment before you reach that point.

In the mean time, if he figures out that you are starting to figure HIM out.....expect it to get worse because people like this get much nastier when they are exposed, and amp up their efforts to beat you back into submission, or treat you like shit until you leave so they can start looking for a new victim.

P.s. reading your description of his behaviour, a disorder did come to mind: NPD (narcissistic personality disorder).

AAAAANNNNNDDDD, everything I've just said are coping mechanisms for dealing with someone who can certainly be thought of under the umbrella of NPD.....as a child of a father with NPD, and a mother with her own either empowering or own narcissistic traits.....I can tell you the shit gets MUCH worse when you stop playing their game.

It's called Narcissistic Supply, where they consistently do things which forces you to submit to them, or do anything they want in order to make them happy, and if you don't they start doing and saying things that make you feel bad, then you start fulfilling their whims, which pleases them, they ease up on you because they start to feel good, and when it's wearing off, they'll do something again and start the cycle over again.

I haven't had much sleep, so apologies if I'm not totally coherent, I'm sure someone else here will be able to clarify what I'm saying in a better way.

Ask yourself this......is the emotional fulfillment or highs from him enough to outweigh the really bad lows? Or are the highs only small swells, and generally you are planning your whole day and actions around what makes him stay calm and behave himself?

Now, you said you wanted to hear from a sufferer's perspective.....from my T's point of view, as well as other assessments....I've had this illness a VERY long time, but the worst of it started 5 years ago.
I'm 23, almost 24, pregnant and in a VERY amazing relationship that has it's own shit, as normal relationships do, but has been part of the key to getting better.

I've seen shit, been in it, through it, tried to get around it, and now that I'm somewhere safe, I'm OVER IT, and wonder how the hell I managed to survive.
I've been through more partners than I've had birthdays, and been through physical, environmental, sexual and psychological abuse with nearly every one of them....the first abuser being my father and then my mother.

Know this....if he truly is narcissistic, then you need to make short or long terms plans to get yourself out. It may take several tries, but each time it gets better....ask yourself for how long, and if you would prefer 'better' for nearly all the time as opposed to never knowing when the shit will start again.

Also, it doesn't matter what you do, if he likes being this way, and enjoys making you suffer, then nothing you do will consistently make a difference.....have you ever asked yourself after an 'episode' why something you were doing set him off, when normally it didn't?
Or why something you do sometimes sets him off, and other times doesn't?
Or why something you normally do that doesn't usually have an effect has sent him into a screaming rage?

Standing up for yourself takes time, effort, pain and tears but at the end of it, you'll get the best rush ever, knowing you got out. There is NOTHING more satisfying in this world that when you know you've had a near miss, and turning around and knowing you've survived and can now give it the finger.

And when you do, we'll all be standing right behind you to give it the finger too.

 

[DeedeeRSM]

Update...

I want to thank you all...your comments have opened my eyes to things I was blind to. I never thought this would happen, as I genuinely believed that he couldn't help himself, even if my loved ones were always telling me otherwise. I always thought they said those things because they loves me and saw me hurting.

The reason why I have been able to actually SEE is because you guys are all insiders and KNOW how PTSD and other mental illnesses manifest. His behaviour has nothing to do with PTSD. And if it has to do something with his multiple personality disorder, he should've sought help for it. That is not my responsibility. (< this is what you made me see). I realized that he can only change if he wants to, and right now (and the past 3 years) he has pretty much only been about self pity. Myself, I dont have ANY self pity, and thats why I couldnt see it, since I have never had it. Im a get go-er and a jump-over kind of person. I thank the universe (am not religious) every day for giving me the chances it has and the talents I have.

I realized that even if he loves me, and I know he does, his love will ALWAYS only go to the extent that it doesnt interfere with his self pity. Heck, I had SURGERY (ok it was plastic- but still surgery) and he made a fight with me so I had to go into surgery without him and his supprt next to me...similar things have happened before. Do you know how it feels to go into something that has a (even if its inieminie little) possibility you might die, and NOT having the support of your SO, JUST because he is too busy wallowing in self pity?

These things made me think and think...and when I think more comes to m mind, its like a loose end of a sock, keep pulling and it keeps unraveling itself, and I see more and more of what I have lived the past 3 years. Hm and I, we're nowhere NEAR marriage or living together, because my house is too small, im too this, im too that,

he has ALWAYS had something to complain about me...but I mean ALWAYS. From day 1 until now, he has both admired me as if Im some kind of goddess and meanwhile hated me for my many flaws. do you see the big difference range here? That right there has caused me to become blind to his behaviour. Because when he speaks his admiration of me, and shows it to me, it gives me a sence that he loves me. And even if he does, I dont want to live with someone who always has something to complain about me.

Tomorrow, I booked a trip for myself. I wanted to go alone because whenever I ask him to go somewhere, he starts sighing and complaining about being tired, and about how he hates my spontanity etc. I have been waiting for over a year for his ''planning'' to go to this place. So I booked for myself. And guess what? he decides to come with. He buys a train ticket, and he's going with. But here's the fun part guys... I DONT EVEN WANT HIM TO GO WITH ME. I ACTUALLY prefer to go alone...thats a killer huh? ESPECIALLY a killer for a co-dependent person like I am (co-dependents HATE doing things alone, and hate BEING alone).

Says a lot about the changes in my heart and mind huh? Thanks...all of you.

 

[HëllaBubz]

Do you know how it feels to go into something that has a (even if its inieminie little) possibility you might die, and NOT having the support of your SO, JUST because he is too busy wallowing in self pity?

Not my SO, but my dad did that when he (an ex traffic cop) took my underage, nonlicenced sister on the road dirtbike riding, and she got hit by a car. Lost a kidney from arterial torsion which then clotted up and it starved to death from blood.
Rotten f*cker had the gall to sit next to her and try to make it about how he felt as a father having this happen blah blah blah......could have killed him where he stood.

But yes, I totally understand.

So I booked for myself. And guess what? he decides to come with. He buys a train ticket, and he's going with. But here's the fun part guys... I DONT EVEN WANT HIM TO GO WITH ME. I ACTUALLY prefer to go alone...thats a killer huh?

So what are you going to do about this?