Abusive Siblings

[HëllaBubz]

It would only be to offer support and somewhere safe for the spouse/child. And so that I could report it, and chase it down to the ends of the earth until something changed.

 

[Abstract]

Coming back Ayesha as I realised I didn't really answer the question. I would talk them afterwards if they were getting help, trying hard to change, were being emotionally honest with me and if I had that type of relationship with them. I would not if they refused to get help, continued to abuse or if they were not willing to be honest. The level of the abuse, the abilities of those who are being victimised (a fairly together husband is a different matter to a child or vulnerable adult) are also a factor in decisions of when and how much.

 

[mamachick]

There are a lot of circumstance to consider. Is the relationship toxic to you to the point that you have tried everything and been unsuccessful. If it is toxic for you, then you have to disconnect.

Staying connected allows you to keep eye out. There are many good responses here about reporting and trying to talk to the person, getting them help, and still loving them.

I dont think having communication with them is condoning it. I have lots of friends who do things that I dont condone but have not ditched them. However, those things are generally more self harming than other harming. So what if it were your child? Would you stop contact?

 

[Abstract]

I have lots of friends who do things that I dont condone but have not ditched them.

Hi Brat, if your friends were physically abusing their children, were not receiving help and and would not discuss it what would you do? In terms of how you interact with them.

I am not picking on this and it is a genuine question.

 

[mamachick]

That would not happen, they would be reported and I would be done with them. It is clearly my job to protect my children. I am a mandated reporter also. So if...Well there are many ifs... As someone else said, if you know you cannot reason with the sibling, I would probably report even if it were annonymously if it were their children. The original question was if they were abusive to spouse or children, later clarified to "physical" abuse.

If I had a brother and he was hitting his wife, I would not stop communication. Again, the ifs. I might be the only person aware of what is going on. I might be a lifeline for his wife. I am sure I would address it with him, but dont know his temperment and what his response would be. If it were his children, did he slap his mouthy 15 yr old daughter, chuck his 16 yr old son against the door when coming home drunk after driving, or did he break his 4 yr olds arm because the kid was whining.

I think there is no cut and dry answer. Children and partners are very different. Children must be protected adults. An abused partner has to learn to protect themselves. I would ask myself, will ex communicating better or worsen the situation.

I had a family member tell me (not realizing that I am mandated reporter) that a 8 yr old daughter said that grandpa molested her. Upon further questioning, she denied. The person told me they were considering reporting to CPS. I told her that she had 24 hrs to report it on her own or I would. She agreed to do so. Both daughters, age 8 and 3 had a forensic interview and it was reported to state police. The 8 yr old (learning disabled) froze up and would not talk. The 3 yr old said some things that indicated she was molested, but 3 yr olds are not good witnesses for a conviction. Much of the fathers amily was really mad at the mom. She called me madder than heck at me for making her report. The next day, the state police called her and said grandpa confessed. He was never charged with the 8 yr old, but with 2 children under 5 yrs old.

I think we have to take each situation on an individual basis. We might be the only outlet the kid has. If they are taken and end up in foster care-that is a real crap shoot too.

 

[mamachick]

Abstract-Im sorry, just realized that you said "their" children, I mis-read and thought it your , meaning my children. I feel the same about the friend as well, but I would report and might be more likely to stop communication. Then again, some friends are more like family. Child or partner, I would definately help them to get help as the goal is to stop.

 

[Abstract]

Hi Brat, thanks!

Much of what you said is basically the same as I did in this post I think. I think we agree on almost all points

I would

were not receiving help and and would not discuss it

help them to get help

This is point I was making. I was not questioning a situation where the person is discussing it or getting help. Yes, we can report it but what do we do when they refuse help or discussion or any honesty and when there are children involved. I am not sure continued contact is not condoning it in these specific circumstances. Not sure too if I could be popping off for lunch with them if they are beating their child in the afternoon and what that says (not talking about smacking here). I would never stop contact with the rest of the family regardless and in fact would do the opposite - I don't believe the question was about cutting off the family.

I just wondered from this

have not ditched them.

Because for me it is totally about helping the situation in any way possible and not about ditching anyone. Friends self harming couldn't be more different. Just my thoughts.

 

[mamachick]

Hi Abstract,
I absolutely agree. I think we agree on most points if not all.
I got the idea from each poster that we all kind of took on a particular interpretation of what that abuse might be and with whom.

My sister was very verbally abusive with her husband for years and told him she wished he was dead. Three days later he died of a massive heart attack in his sleep.For years, I tried to point out what I saw going on in a rational way and suggested counseling many times, but she would never get it. When her children were little she physically and emotionally abused them. I was only 15 so could not do much. She is full of anger and I eventually was triggered too much to have contact with her following her husbands death. She is a person that will never seek help. I feel like I absorbed so much by listening to her rage for too long . She is 7 yrs older and when we were kids, she told me she wished I was dead every day of my life and beat me up alot too. Im sure she told her husband this often as well. Im sure she killed his spirit and he is at peace now.

Probably continuing contact in some situations is condoning it. I think tip toe-ing around and pretending like we dont notice is condoning, but if we call it as it is openly, it might make them see what they are doing. But again, I have my own interpretation. I think bailing them out of jail would be condoning, or in any way accepting the behavior would be condoning. Again, I keep thinking of my sister. I also think that many people would not continue contact, leaving the victim isolated with the abuser, which is why I think some contact may be a life line for the victim.

When I spoke about friends, I was thinking about friends that I have that have had repeated abortions, had affairs with married men, and things that I do not condone. However, I have not ended the friendship. The behaviors are self harming, but also harm others. Yet often, given the opportunity, they are able to express that they feel really bad about what they have done. With support, they have made changes.I can love the person and dislike the behavior. I think that if I minimize or make light of the behavior, I would be condoning it. If I can share my views about it openly and set boundaries that I will have not part, then they are aware of my disapproval.

 

[digger]

one of your siblings was abusive to their spouse and/or children

This is too general for me to comment on in depth without more information, but if the sibling were still with the spouse, then I would be inclined to keep the line of communications open for their benefit, as cutting off the sibling may inadvertently cut of the spouse as well. Causing the spouse to be isolated from people who could help would certainly not be unheard of in domestic violence situations and I wouldn't want to risk causing that.

For me it would also depend on my relationship with the sibling prior to finding out about the abuse. I don't agree with family is always family and you should always show them love because of that.

 

[Abstract]

My sister was very verbally abusive with her husband for years

Hi Brat,
This is actually one of the reasons I asked what type of abuse in the beginning. Not that emotional abuse is not very important and damaging of course. I relate as mine has done the same. In fact I was left picking up the pieces when she decided to divorce him in the end. It was also sad but interesting as he was in no way a vulnerable person when they met. Very psychologically healthy and balanced. After 7 years he was eggshell stepping and apologising for himself as well as caretaking her. No children thank goodness but when she started planning on having them I insisted she start therapy if he wanted to be a mother.

I am sorry she abused you as a child and I think that hugely complicates how we can deal with the person and situation and especially when we have PTSD. Your own vulnerabilities are valid and justified. A 15 year old is also a child and this type of responsibility way too much. I have made decisions of this nature at that age that I deeply regret and hold against myself.

And I agree that walking away from the problem is not something I would do. I think that often comes from someone not wanting to be bothered with the issue rather than a genuine desire to help. Leaving the family isolated is the worst possible thing that could happen. I am afraid I would have to do this with someone like my cousin though as he is too dangerous. I would keep getting authorities and others involved but I could not intervene personally.

Oh and I have friends who have done many things I don't approve of - including my sister having an affair - but I do think that is different although not ideal.

Ayesha, I am hoping you feel this is still all on topic but feel free to say if not.

 

[mamachick]

Thanks Abstract,
I can relate to your circumstances and relate to the cousin you have as well.
Trying to get back to Ayesha's original question-I dont think there is a right or wrong in every situation. I think most of us do the best we can with the resources we have. Having ptsd complicates things, and the first priority needs to be taking care of ourselves, and if the circumstances are too much for us, sometimes we have to walk away. If we dont tend to ourselves, we will not be good for anybody else. That could mean taking a break or terminating contact from people we care about.

 

[Abstract]

Totally agreed Brat.