Relationship A Fine Line....

[Determinedone]

Am I imagining things it is there a fine line between being supportive and being a doormat? How much emotional abuse does one allow before you finally stand our ground? At times it seems he doesn't have a clue what he's saying. Others it seems as if he just doesn't care? One sentence he says he loves you and is tryig to et those feelings back the next he says he doesn't but he's tying to see if it will work? Talk about a roller coaster ride? Simple questions seem to bring on paranoia and when thingsgo well he's quick to say yea but shits not rite so don't et confused.

 

[scout86]

I don't think there has to be a fine line at all. Being a doormat ISN'T being supportive. And, I don't think you should allow ANY emotional abuse before you stand your ground. (I'm not sure what you mean by "stand your ground".)

To me, the idea of being supportive is that you help and encourage someone to be a better version of themselves. To find the path to becoming the best version of themselves they are capable of. How does you being a doormat accomplish that? If you "allow" emotional abuse, are you not giving the impression that it's ok? How does that help anyone?

Communication isn't always easy, but it's important. It sounds like the two of you need more work in that area. What seems like a "simple question" to you may not seem like a simple question to him. His inconsistency may not seem like a big deal to him, but, if it is to you he needs to know and understand that and work to honor your concern. If you're going to be on a roller coaster ride, at least it ought to be the same roller coaster!

 

[Friday]

You keep losing me at emotional abuse.

As soon as you say "He's abusing me" ... My mind says "f*ck him, then. Walk."

The thing is, however, is purely from what you've written, I'm also not hearing abuse. I'm hearing isolation, sense of foreshortened future, paranoia, depression, adrenaline seeking, confusion, pain, etc.

I get that his suffering hurts you, but that's not emotional abuse.

Am I missing something, here?

 

[Determinedone]

Hmmm you may have a point. And now that I think of it, I wasn't te one to call it this. The counselor I'm seeing does. She's the one who says it's emotional abuse and I guess I just began titling it that. So with that bein said and you seem to have an idea of what's going on with his emotions. How can I make life pleasant for both of is while allowing him to sort out his emotions and get through this?

 

[Sighs]

@scout86 - its not so much a 'fine line' as the old frog in the boiling water situation - it slowly escalates and you find yourself "accepting' behaviour that you wouldn't tolerate if you didn't understand so well the reasons for it. (Reasons are not the same as excuses.)

@FridayJones - only my opinion but I think deliberately emotionally withdrawing to manipulate someone is emotional abuse - withdrawing as a survival mechanism due to PTSD is not - so perhaps @Determinedone's counselor is not experienced enough in PTSD?

 

[Determinedone]

I have doubts about the counselor as well and have sense started researching more on my own and it reaching out to others who are goig through this hoping to learn as much as possible to help with this situation not just my spouse but my family.
Communication is hard when your the only one talking and all you get back is negative, angry words. Understanding this will help me learn what's goin on and possibly be able to get through to him at some point. I have also started backing off when he seems more angry than normal. And he has started to open up a little but when he does it's almost as if it's too much and after a few days he locks up his emotions along with any communication again.

 

[Wastinglight]

withdrawing as a survival mechanism due to PTSD is not - so perhaps [DLMURL="https://www.myptsd.com/c/members/28106/"]@Determinedone[/DLMURL]'s counselor is not experienced enough in PTSD?

I would add that some therapists just take a hard line on this sort of thing - even ones that have expertise in PTSD. Also bear in mind that a T might say that they have expertise in PTSD, but if most of their experience is with, say, CSA clients, then they're not necessarily well versed in Combat PTSD, for example. Might be worth having that conversation with your T?

its not so much a 'fine line' as the old frog in the boiling water situation - it slowly escalates and you find yourself "accepting' behaviour that you wouldn't tolerate if you didn't understand so well the reasons for it. (Reasons are not the same as excuses.)

That's a very good way of describing it - very apt.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

A lot of marriage and family counselors know jack squat about PTSD so they are quick to label things as abuse when it *MAY* just be someone who is struggling.

Normal person: Says "I love you" one minute, "I don't love you" the next. This can be construed as manipulation, and quite emotionally abusive.

PTSD person: Says "I love you" one minute, "I don't love you" the next. This may mean that he/she is going through periods of numbness where emotions literally fly out the window with practically no notice at all.

Of course, an ignorant counselor who is used to the same old/same old of relationships and has no knowledge of the struggles of someone with PTSD will label the PTSD person's behavior as abusive when it is not.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that *everything* a sufferer does can be excused by PTSD, as PTSD is not an excuse for abuse. However, it is important to examine what's going on, and your counselor is labeling behavior without getting the underlying story. (Counselors like this can do more harm than good, so be on your toes, ok?)

I think it is VERY telling that your sufferer is saying he is simply trying. If he were being abusive, he wouldn't in all likelihood say this. If he were abusive, he would be dangling the carrot of love in front of your face and pulling it away in order to make you hurt or to make you do what he wants you to do. I don't see this happening (but of course I could be wrong.)

 

[Friday]

. And he has started to open up a little but when he does it's almost as if it's too much and after a few days he locks up his emotions along with any communication again.

Not almost.

I can pretty much guarantee you it is. Ever been punched in the gut? Ideally punched so hard and unexpectedly that you haven't tensed for it, so your vision swims, you're in blinding pain, and puking? Or had a broken bone, been violently raped, childbirth... Try and think of your most physically painful life event. (The above are all things I've had).

Talking about "it" feels much the same way. Intensely painful coupled with physically / mentally / emotionally exhausting. It often takes days to recover from it. And it's embarrassing as blazes. And infuriating. And frustrating. I have an almost impossible time talking about combat even with other vets & aid workers. I can't even start with non-vets 99% of the time. I can talk around it, sometimes, but it's extremely difficult to talk about at all. Unless I've reached the end of my rope and I'm shouting about it. Sometimes I can sneak up on it from the sides. But even then? I feel nauseous just typing this. And I actually love conflict zones. It's my favorite place to work. I feel okay there. Better, really. I feel alive, and colorful, and competent. Needed. Wanted. Necessary. Useful. Here? Here I'm shaking like a leaf, and losing my temper, and can't talk, and can't do anything right, and am losing my ever loving mind.

It is so durn painful here.

I had a fairly difficult labor / no meds. It was easier to be sociable then, than it is when I'm struggling with PTSD. If you have kids? Picture (the granted kind of hilarious image) being in labor whilst your husband "thinks" he's making an effort to be out and about in public. If you were in labor, could you be doing the same things he's asking of himself? That are being asked of him?

Intense & immediate paired with brief times to catch your breath, then intense & immediate pain. Writhing levels of pain. It's bad. That's simply all there is to it. It's effing painful.

None of the above justifies abuse. Shortened tempers, avoidance, and all the other stuff that goes along with being really symptomatic and in severe pain isn't abuse. Being abusive is a choice to take it a step beyond, and inflict pain on others.

 

[Sighs]

@FridayJones - thank you once again for your fabulous imagery! Physical illness is something most of us can relate to but its often hard to remember for non-sufferers that mental illness is just as painful and just as incapacitating.

 

[Determinedone]

@ fridayjones thank your for giving such a detailed look inside what he meat be dealing with. What if anything can I do to help him I ring these times? For example last night he didn't bother coming home until amost 10pm but he left at 530am for work. He called a few times didn't really saying anythig worth repeatig just regular stuff. I ha been working all day as well and I'm also sick flu/upper respiratory junk I think. When he was sick I took care of him he never said thank you nothing. I even massaged him a few nights after work (I'm a massage therapist will graduate in a month). Yet he decided to be very disrespectful within 10 minutes f beig home so bad that I told him I wouldn't tolerate his attitude anymore and went in the bedroom. He spent about an hr with our sons. When I came out to get some water he just gave me a dirty look.

This mornin I woke up and he was already up odd for a Sunday. He was on his laptop just like he was when we went to bed. I tried to have general conversation with him, so if he could possibly make me some breakfast I wasn't feeling well. He looked me dead in my face and laughed saying u know were not like that so no. He then put his earphones on and ignored me. He seen me tears streaming down my face and ask what's wrong I said nothing. He went bk to listening to his music. Abt an hour later I ask him to spend some time with us he said he will always spend time with out kids but he doesn't know wth is going on with us just that it's not rite. I said we need to communicate he said to bad I don't wanna. I said I thought we were working on it? He said I answered that a few times Im not doing it again. I reminde him it takes two to make it work and would appreciate conversation, an some time. In his heart does he want me to stay? That will determine a lot of things