Therapist Clueless About Sociopaths

[Dana1010]

@anthony, everything I have ever read about sociopaths (by professionals) has made clear that they do not have the capacity for empathy or remorse - without those two emotions a person can not develop a conscience. The latest research shows that people who score high on the psychopathy checklist (I'm not even talking prison populations) have a dysfunctional dopamine response. Dopamine is a associated with reward. Basically, when they desire something, they cannot take their focus off of it until they have it. When you couple that with an inability to feel remorse, well....

I also want to add that just because someone isn't violent doesn't mean they're not dangerous to the people around them. Conning, lying, mind games, manipulation, slander, ruining people socially - there are countless ways the sociopaths you're calling "not dangerous" can harm people.

that cold stare is something that haunts you like nothing else

Yes, you just have to experience it - they know in excruciating detail how you're suffering and they're feeling nothing. It's out of this world. Also unbelievable are the calm, almost peaceful silences I remember when I'd reiterate one of their lies to them, still believing it. No tension, nothing - I thought they were bored.

 

[darrenS]

Anthony....i have actually seen a Wall street type in action , and the damage they reek is no different - remember that Melbourne Guy - who was accused of fraud in the range of 20-60mil and fled to Canada only to be tracked down and returned and jailed - i knew that guy for many years , done work for his legitimate interests - I always thought he was selfish until the walls started coming down - it was very very clear then - the behavior , manipulation, lies etc - and the scarier parts that only a few see when they are cornered

I do agree in the case of sociopaths that any discussion about them seems to evoke fear before reason in many cases and broad brushes tend to be applied

 

[Dana1010]

i have actually seen a Wall street type in action , and the damage they reek is no different

And we don't know what their extracurricular activities are like - what they're getting up to after hours. Like the rich, successful sociopath I knew was an out and out sadist, sexual and otherwise. I'm sure if you could gather all the people whose lives he damaged into one large room (if they'd fit) you'd start to see that it's not just sterile, white collar crimes they're guilty of. It's a 24/7 operation. When you take conscience, warmth and love out of the human brain, there's not much left but the desire to win - at anything and at all costs.

 

[darrenS]

Dana...i truly have seen many types...
The money types....charming, social etc lies...falsifications - everything is measured by amount of money, status - more gain at all costs
The average sociopath - lies distortions lack of understanding or empathy
The truly dangerous...sorry not appropriate to get into here

i dont think it gets down to a desire to win , its simply how they view their survival. Many so called normal people could also be guilty of displaying sociopathic tendencies at one time or other. It is as Anthony stated hard to define with a broad brush . The cold stare - yes i have actually seen that , but at the same time i have seen warm eyes in others and a different type of lacking. It is not till you've been truly burnt by one that you actually understand the process so to speak but at the same time, anyone's behavior at one time or another could be viewed with the same lens. It is very hard to define and only truly can be identified by experts. I now live by a simple rule...if in doubt ....run in opposite direction :)

 

[risingsun]

Or we could some it up as this. There are two kinds of people in this world, the givers and the takers. Some take more than others and some try to even steal your soul, your innocence, your peace and your dreams. Do people add to the world or do they take from it?

The takers, at the most extreme, try to destroy humankind. I suppose we like to categorize them at certain levels, as some are so close to personal enjoyment, how can that not be evil? And when we are near the extreme takers of our world, it is truly so unforgettable that when explained to people who haven't been close to such evil, its hard to describe.Okay, now I'm getting existential but why not? The question of our existence is, are we a giver or a taker? One thing I've learned, don't give your personal power to the taker. Shut the door on the takers. Let their destructive path destroy them, not you. Rising

 

[anthony]

Well... you could just make up a whole bunch of stuff as though factual, throw it their way and call their behaviours sociopathic / psychopathic? That seems to be what's going on in this discussion already! Not like they need to meet criterion from childhood or anything...

 

[greenleaf]

You're trying to stereotype a trauma as worse based on the abuser, which just can't be done, and I've given you plenty of examples above to cite my stance and reasoning.

It's odd that so many folks in this thread are mis-reading the original post as claiming this abuse is *worse*. I don't get it!!!

The specific events that cause trauma are indeed quite distinct, and distinct categories tend to leave certain distinct problems for the survivors. This isn't at all saying that any of those traumas are worse than any others, and it's not minimizing anyone.

Sexual abuse, physical abuse, strangers vs. family members, the gender of the perpetrator, these all affect our lives as adults! All are distinct though there is certainly lots of variation in how each aspect affects people too.

Also, I have to disagree with several statements in the thread that perpetrators didn't *enjoy* abusing. Maybe people don't like to think about that even more than they hate thinking about the actual abuse? I don't know why the denial here, but I'm afraid it is very very true.

Abusers of many sorts can and do actually get (short-term?) pleasure from abusing, from personal experience with two abusers in my family. (In my family, it was short-term, seemed to me to be associated with feeling powerful, followed by a sort of meld of victim-blaming and apologies... but of course it would happen again.)

These folks in my family weren't even technically psychopaths. (put this in bold as it was missed by another person here...)

This stuff is well documented among abusers, don't take my word for it.

 

[anthony]

Abusers of many sorts can and do actually get (short-term?) pleasure from abusing

Now we're crossing traumatic instances of any kind, mixing it with personality disorders. Is this really where this is headed?

We are talking about personality disorders, I believe... not abusers of many sorts, once again the broad brush is coming out in this discussion and now brushing abusers of many sorts with psychopathic abusers. They aren't even close to the same thing, and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence together.

Personality disorders are on a whole different playing field to any any other disorder, and everything about them isn't the persons fault, as claimed by those abused in this discussion. Talking about your experience, is not the same as psychopathy in totality. Egocentric stockbrokers without a childhood / adolescent history of personality disorder formation, are just that, egocentric adults with problems... it doesn't make them sociopaths as being claimed.

WOW... people are getting out those brushes and painting psychopathic over any behaviour that crosses into its territory now.

 

[Dana1010]

i dont think it gets down to a desire to win , its simply how they view their survival.

Yeah, I should have clarified - to us it might be rape, murder, abuse, manipulation, swindling; to them it's winning, getting what they want out of this moment.

Also, I have to disagree with several statements in the thread that perpetrators didn't *enjoy* abusing.

It seems that in the absence of empathy, abuse is experienced as simply an increase in personal power.

 

[darrenS]

Anthony...you talk of broad brushes and then use one to describe the chat - i take no personal offense to your statement other than who made you the expert. I have defined the behaviors most associated with it and nothing more

 

[greenleaf]

Ugh, a lot of posts in the thread seem based upon incomplete readings of other posts. I'm going to go eat chocolate and empathetically pet a cat.

 

[anthony]

use one to describe the chat

How so? Are you talking the live chat on this site? Or this discussion?

If this discussion, I'm reading the same thing in each response that has personal experience, being bias towards anyone displaying slight psychopathic behaviours, as labelling them a sociopath / psychopath, with no diagnostic application.