Why Are People Drawn To Be Law Enforcement Officers?

[Anarchy]

In my view your last two lines are totally unacceptable and destroys what I thought (perhaps incorrectly) was the question behind the Thread. Read it Anarchy.

Let's just remind ourselves what the question was:

I'm trying to understand why people become police or corrections officers

Despite numerous value assumptions in that leading post, the question remains the same; "why do people...?" it wasn't; "why do [good] people [and your answers must only refer to the good ones]...?"

People react to incentives and dis incentives - identifying the incentives and disincentives of a path of action and the belief structures which inform the path of action which individuals choose, is
a central part of answering that question.

Society includes the full spectrum of variously good, bad and indifferent people, different roles attract different proportions from accross that spectrum. What that proportion turns out to be is based partly on the incentives, the disincentives, and the wider perception of those factors. I fully accept that no individual has perfect knowledge - we can each attempt to act on the basis of faulty knowledge, and some will do that too - join by mistake.

I think the lines which you @blackemerald1 are refering to;

Even if it is "only a few" "bad apples", with incentives (or lack of dis incentives) like that - is it any wonder that the special privilege attracts those "few" "bad apples" to join up?

Quite clearly sum up the role of incentives and dis incentives.

As far as not referencing statistics and individual examples - why should I ever let real events spoil the view through rose tinted glasses?
By whom? and, why? such things happen, is an implicit part of the question of why people join up.

[DLMURL="https://www.myptsd.com/c/members/28019/"]@Anarchy[/DLMURL], [DLMURL="https://www.myptsd.com/c/members/28026/"]@afuneralinmybrain[/DLMURL] - As previously suggested by staff, if you would like to discuss these other issues about law enforcement, Please, start that thread. Please do it respectfully, as there are people who are hurting who have been or currently are in law enforcement on this forum.

If you look through my old posts, you will see some to people who were formerly in the police. In no way do I denigrate their hurt - quite the contrary, for them to have suffered hurt strongly implies that they are good people with a consceince and a sense of compassion, and that they did get hurt, suggests that they were in the wrong role for them. If that is the case - perhaps having a more realistic view of the occupation might save some more good people from getting hurt?

What is most sad to me about your posts is that if what you believe and claim is really true, nothing will change about the problems you both see and/or experience unless you build a bridge to connect with and/or understand the other side and why they are the way they are, and/or take constructive positive action to change what you believe is broken. Your remarks show an unwillingness to do either. Instead you just rant about how awful they are, and pull a conversation off topic - a conversations that was about trying to understand why people go into the profession.

Unfortunately, yes, I do believe that the fail is structural rather than a result of policy, or of individual will to achieve a different result. There are certainly many good people trying to achieve a different result to the one being seen.

as an illustration, if I "build a bridge to connect with and/or understand the other side and why they are the way they are, and/or take constructive positive action to change what you believe is broken." with the workers in a tuna canning plant - will that result in them producing bars of dark chocolate instead of cans of tuna?

Unfortunately the structures and rules of the institution are set up to produce a certrain result, and even if I persuaded many of the tuna canners to my point of view, if they continue to follow the rules and use the structures, they'll still be producing tins of tuna.

When they fail to produce bars of chocolate - it doesn't imply that they weren't committed to trying to produce bars of chocolate.

Simmilarly, perhaps some of their colleagues joined up because they actually wanted to produce tins of tuna.

 

[Justmehere]

Anarchy, it is INCREDIBLY clear to me that it is your opinion and position that the structure of the profession huge incentives to go into law enforcement for nefarious purposes, and that the vast majority of people attracted to the profession want to become officers for awful purposes. It is very clear you believe the paid police force should be abolished.

You have repeated your message again and again. I do not understand why you keep responding to my question to tell me this over and over.

In regards to your tuna analogy, if I want people to stop making tuna - ie stop doing harmful things as law enforcement - yes, I would build bridges to tuna workers and find out how and why they became any kind of factory worker - any kind of law enforcement. Why they want to make dark chocolate or tuna. Ok, this analogy doesn't work for me because I like tuna but I suppose now talking about culinary tastes would really get the tread off topic. ;)

I would not go rail at the people trying to understand the people drawn to the profession that I don't like.

It is disheartening to also read that you do not believe that building bridges and understanding the motivations and viewpoints of others can be a step towards changing people and outcomes.

Even if law enforcement is your enemy and is all evil - don't you want to understand them better? Or do you already know all there is to know about why people become law enforcement?

 

[blackemerald1]

Good grief Anarchy, you just do not get it do you!

Make yourself a Post and blah on about tuna and chocolate and structural failings and rose tinted glasses and actual examples of Law Enforcement officers joining up to murder people and those Police that get injured were the "real deal".and you feel compassion towards them but then they should have known better than to join up..and then this will somehow stop other people wanting to join up? Huh

What planet are you living on?

Justmehere who started this Thread has been more than generous and respectful towards you. You did not read the actual question she advanced in her Heading and subsequent comments. You have clearly missed the whole point of her question. You were advised to stop by a staff member.

Your posts have been sarcastic.

Wearing what though?

Your own stripey shirt, a stocking over your head and in full knowledge that what you were doing was wrong?
or,
A tax victim funded blue costume, shiny badge and big sense of entitled impunity?

How disappointing. So how are you suggesting here that you contributed meaningfully to answer the question of "Why are people drawn towards Law Enforcement"? I think not Anarchy.

Really do you have anything meaningful to say about the topic of the thread or just getting pleasure with making real people anxious and confused? Do you care that Law Enforcement Officer might be reading this and are suffering PTSD or a non-curable physical injury or both?

You say you have researched this for 10 years. Therefore your comments are somehow compelling? Yet you cannot succinctly reply to a question without denigrating an entire professional occupation of thousands of men and women? Lets face it Anarchy you hate Law /Enforcement or any type of authority because you have shown this by your comments, disregarding a staff members suggestion and also Justmehere's requests for you to stop. .

I would respectfully say you are wasting a lot of energy hating something you know little about.

I feel pity for you.

 

[Anarchy]

In several places in this thread, views and statements have been attributed to me, which I do not hold and which I have never made.

I'm not getting at you @Justmehere yours is merely the most recent example so it is the one which I'll use.

Anarchy, it is INCREDIBLY clear to me that it is your opinion and position that the structure of the profession huge [it has incentives - or lack of disincentives - I never implied size] incentives to go into law enforcement for nefarious purposes, and that the vast majority of people attracted to the profession want to become officers for awful purposes. [I never gave any figure or proportion] It is very clear you believe the paid police force should be abolished. [I've already made clear that I have no problem with police being paid infact I wouldn't expect much provision if people weren't paid - the problems arise with both monopoly and with the coerced nature of the transaction. remove the monopoly and remove the coerced funding and you will have competing providers seeking to best serve customers at prices which customers are willing to pay, rather than the present situation of people being forced to pay and not having any choice in what service they get or who provides it]

You have repeated your message again and again. I do not understand why you keep responding to my question to tell me this over and over. [over half of myposts to this thread have been either pointing out misleading inferences, answering queries, or trying to explain concepts which have variously been dismissed as "indigestable" or "codswallop". I'd actually have welcomed some reasoned debate rather than emotional dismissals or false attributions].

In regards to your tuna analogy, if I want people to stop making tuna - ie stop doing harmful things as law enforcement - yes, I would build bridges to tuna workers and find out how and why they became any kind of factory worker - any kind of law enforcement. Why they want to make dark chocolate or tuna. Ok, this analogy doesn't work for me because I like tuna but I suppose now talking about culinary tastes would really get the tread off topic. ;)

I would not go rail at the people trying to understand the people drawn to the profession that I don't like.

It is disheartening to also read that you do not believe that building bridges and understanding the motivations and viewpoints of others can be a step towards changing people and outcomes.

Even if law enforcement is your enemy and is all evil - don't you want to understand them better? Or do you already know all there is to know about why people become law enforcement?

[I have great respect for none aggressive providers of defence services and for none agressive providers of dispute resolution services. There is nothing in either category of service which requires it to be provided by a monopoly, or to be funded coercively, customers are well capable of seeking out choosing and paying for goods and services that they need, defence and dispute resolution services are no exception to that.

The former state sector police whom I still know and I'm friends with, are all retired now, I knew them when they were working, and in the past I've shared houses with state sector cops - I have no problem with good individuals - and I've made that clear, time and again.

What I have realized, and some of the former state sector cops have too (for some reason, there seem to be far more military people who come to this realization than there seem to be police who do) Is that the coercively funded monopoly will continue to do what coercively funded monopolies always do - regardless of what the good individuals inside and outside of it want]

on the wider point of a thread on institutional analysis - I'll get it going when I work out how to start it. It's not for lack of good intentions - it's from lack of knowing how to begin.

 

[Anarchy]

I would respectfully say you are wasting a lot of energy hating something you know little about.

I feel pity for you.

Factually incorrect - please point to concrete examples of the "hate". Thanks for the pity, but I'd prefer that you point out any specific flaws in my reasoning.

Your posts have been sarcastic.

I prefer the term "ironic", but I'll not argue with that observation. If you find any which are factually incorrect, please point to them, and explain the error.

The other points have already been adressed.

You are free to use the "ignore user" function if you don't want to engage with the statistics or examples which I've cited, or the logic of my interpretations

 

[blackemerald1]

There is no logic in "your interpretations". And you prefer "ironic"....

I wish to follow this Thread because unlike you I have lived it.,

10 years of "research" oh my! You have been busy wasting your time. How about you walk a mile in the shoes of those Law Enforcement Officers you denigrate and then come back and read the BS that you have written?

It's not an academic argument it was a simple question as a Thread topic and you have done your best to destroy it. Why on earth would you want to do that I wonder?

I am free, thank you Anarchy.

You have not addressed the other points at all, not from me or anybody else. Just booted away the one's you would prefer not to answer and try to be as emotive as possible.

Your statistics have already been challenged successfully, your examples have been challenged successfully. You have been told you are off topic numerous times and your interpretations are sorely lacking in logic..

Had to check whether whether wanting to be a bad guy was a reason for joining the (ever so slightly) tubby blue line.
After all, what wannabe murderer wouldn't relish the prospect of this sort of Orwellian language being used to cover the deadly encounters which he initiates?

This is one of your supposed helpful contributions to the Thread topic? Get a grip Anarchy.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

@Anarchy You were asked to keep it on topic by another staff member already. You comments aren't been helpful to the thread, are argumentative and disrespectful.

Thread banned.

 

[RussH]

Having worked as a Paramedic, I worked side by side with law enforcement, and I can tell you the vast majority of them become police officers / deputy sheriffs, or state troopers because the want to make a positive difference in people's lives.

 

[Mina]

To answer the original question posed in the thread title (I skipped over all the off-track silliness), many of them do it to help and protect others. Also, a common reason amongst veterans is because it's something of a natural career choice after being discharged from the military. This is from a southwestern US perspective...law enforcement varies quite widely within the US, not to mention compared to other countries.

How do I know this? I was hired to be a police officer, and quit to take care of my sister when she was nearly murdered when I was starting the academy. I've also been married to a police officer/detective for over 7 years, whose colleagues are obviously LE, and the majority of our friends are in LE. Many of them are also ex-military.

 

[afuneralinmybrain]

I think staff was extremely rude for banning @Anarchy from the thread. :(
We all have PTSD here and we all have our reasons for it. As I said, I've watched police as they wrestled my brother from a protest, twisting his limbs as he cried and begged for the pain to stop while they deliberately sat on him, obviously relishing in his pain.
But instead of focusing on that trauma, you target people who are obviously victims of police brutality.

You are not respecting PTSD.

This thread and the responses by the staff have upset me so much I am shaking.

 

[blackemerald1]

Hi @afuneralinmybrain I am sorry that your brother experienced that sort of pain.

However I do not know what mean when you say that

obviously relishing in his pain

.

In a protest situation, things can get out of hand very quickly and total riots take over. Innocent people trying to go about their daily activity get hurt, cars get torched, businesses get looted so quite often when protesters have to be arrested from a crowd, the police not only have to cope with the actual protester being arrested but defend themselves simultaneously. But that is no excuse for excessive force.

Unfortunately when placed under enormous pressure and stress to control something that is going wrong, participants from both the protesters and the Police get injured. Surely no one wants that to happen.

You mentioned that "99% of cops are Darren Brown" as far as you are concerned. This is, as I have mentioned earlier, a international thread, and I believe I am aware of that particular case but not all the details.

I believe in this country 99% of people are not drawn to be Police Officers to do what Darren Brown is alleged to have done. Rather, that would be their worst nightmare to go through that experience. I have many friends and acquaintances who have had to use lethal force and it has truly adversely affected them, their work colleagues and the incident stays with them the rest of their lives.

 

[afuneralinmybrain]

@blackemerald1 Someone videotaped it, so I've watched it over and over. He was just sitting on the ground. The protesters weren't even making noise. He was literally just sitting there. The officer jumped on him and my brother began to cry and the policeman took his leg and bent it over his body while handcuffing him. My brother kept saying he was breaking his leg but the officer kept sitting on him, even after he handcuffed him. The officer enjoyed doing it. Nothing was out of hand except the police. :(
And it's Darren Wilson. It's not an international incident, I know, but people are being killed every day here by the police. A man died on videotape in New York while a cop choked him to death as the man screamed, "I can't breathe!" 11 times. He had 6 kids. The police face no charges. It wasn't even during a protest, just a regular day.

I have agoraphobia and this is all, obviously, aggravating it. I'm more afraid to go outside now because I'm worried a cop will decide to kill me.
My mom also has bad PTSD and she got pulled over and the cop teased her so much, she began to cry. And then he laughed and laughed and wouldn't stop and made fun of her some more. And then more police got out of the car to laugh at her crying. I get so scared of police. They terrify me.