Telling Too Much, Too Soon.

[Philippa]

I'm wondering if anyone else has the same problem with this that I seem to have?

I have a bad habit of sharing too much about my issues with family, bad experiences and things that have happened in the past with people I don't know very well, but like.

Just got back from a fabulously fun and friendly party weekend in avoca, outside of melbourne last night, and spent it with a great guy that I only just met a week ago. It was a bit of a weird way to meet as well. Initially we met through a client of mine at a local bar up the road from where I live. I went with my client and his friends back to their place for a drink and hang out before going home.

My client/buddy left early and I decided to stay as I felt comfortable with these guys and as it turned out, all was fine and they are decent fellows. It turned a bit strange around 3am when one of the guys started prompting his friend to speak about a recent bad experience...where his housemate committed suicide, and he was worried that his friend was depressed from that.

I am a natural listener and many people in the past have 'used' me to be their free counselling service...like, strangers and all manner of people, including my parents. I was ok at first with it, but eventually realised I was just being dumped on and used, and started to close off from doing this as I got sick of people doing that and then never listening to me when I had stuff I needed to talk about.

So, anyway, we were having a good night and then the subject changed to this guys housemate suiciding. He spoke about it, from the beginning, and my feeling was that while he went through the normal stress and sadness and shock, he was not and is not suicidally depressed about it. I could be wrong, but I think he is pretty strong minded, and I like him.

I left at about 6 am and went home to sleep, and woke up feeling like it was a bit much to put that on me having not really known these people at the start of the night...but, I did have a good time as well, and enjoyed their company and was happy to be of service at the time. I coped with the heaviness quite well. I am pretty good with talking about heavy subjects, but have trouble finding people who are equally open to speaking about heavy stuff at times and prefer to keep everything light and happy, which is fine.

So, anyway, why I posted this thread now is that I keep thinking over the weekend just past and I realise that I like this guy who took me to the party. He was supportive and very considerate of me, as well as generally respectful and helpful to his friends during the party...helping to clean up the place afterwards, and just seems like a really good guy. We had great conversations, but I noticed that I could go from talking about very light subjects to all of a sudden turning the subject around and talking about my brother, and the incident where he tried to get me to perform in a home made porn film, where he was filming! A bit later I brought up my father and his past history of hanging out with a known paedophile and how I was sure something had happened to my brother and that my father knew something about it, or had something to do with it...even though I have no proof of that.

My new friend did not show any signs of it being too much for him, but obviously it was pretty heavy subject matter. I must have felt pretty comfortable to have shared that with him in the first place! We had been having cuddles and I felt safe with him. He feels like my brother, though I'm not sure if it's in the "I could never go there because he's like family" or "brother of humanity" kind of brother?

He said that maybe my brother did that because of what happened to him as a kid and how my father is, and I agreed it was possible, though originally the subject came up after we'd been talking about how the drug Ice can make people say really weird stuff that is inappropriate. I guess it's possible, though my leaning is toward him being on ice, as he's a drug dealer and has friends who deal all sorts of things and other illegal activities.

The man I shared this with had nothing but good things to say about his mother, and he obviously has come from a very 'normal' loving family where he was loved unconditionally and is a bit of a 'mumma's boy' which is fine. I find him very sweet and lovely, but obviously we have very different family backgrounds.

So, anyway, today I have been worrying that I brought this stuff up too soon in the 'relationship', and I also seemed to bring up quite heavy "reality" subjects, when we were all supposed to be having fun and escaping reality out in the bush. I think it sunk into him how much women actually do have to deal with from idiot men harassing us in the street, and he asked "Is that really as big of a problem as everyone is saying" which I answered honestly that yes it is for many women on a daily basis, and then I went on to talk about how rape victims are treated in the so called 'justice system' and then he blurted out "I don't want to talk about that" and then caught himself and let me finish talking.

I don't know why I do it...bring up these heavy subject matters at times when it's supposed to be a light party atmosphere? I said to him in the tent that I think I have boundary issues and that I told him too much, and he just nodded, but didn't say anything at the time...probably didn't want to be impolite or make me feel weird about it?

Anyone have anything they can offer in the way of understanding about this? I've tried asking inside myself but didn't really hear much back. I wondered if it was an attention thing, but it's a weird way to get attention?

 

[Dee Morris]

Holy cow, I could have written your post. I think I bring up too much about my life too soon. For me, it's like I drop little bits here and there as it relates to conversation that comes up to gauge their reaction to what I say. If they cringe at the mention of alcoholic drug addicted parents, I'm certainly not bringing up anything about abuse. Sometimes when someone seems so comfortable with me that they bring up heavy topics early on, it tricks me into thinking I can trust them to be equally open with them. Unfortunately, I have been disappointed more often than I have been rewarded.

 

[darrenS]

Honestly , i think it takes two...you were confronted with the suicide issue , which isnt light in content at all , this in itself can create a boundary lapse. Like any possible new relationship , just be patient and see where it goes. If you have overshared you will feel it soon enough, but on the surface it sounds ok

 

[Dee Morris]

I would say that he was the one with the boundary issue. That's too heavy a topic to bring up around a stranger. His boundary lapse made you feel comfortable too soon. If he is doing ice, he would be too unstable to be able to properly gauge appropriate boundaries. Unfortunately, that leaves it up to you to maintain that boundary and protect yourself from feeling disappointed and invalidated. I would have taken his response as him feeling uncomfortable with what you shared. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. That tells you that he's not ready to be that kind of confidante to you yet. I would be more concerned about how his boundary intrusions will affect you in the friendship. That way you know where to set your boundaries with him. kwim?

 

[darrenS]

if he is doing ice...your in for one hell of a ride...can you tell when someone is tweaked ?

 

[Deleted member 1860]

My antennas went up at the "I don't want to talk about that" comment in regards to women dealing with the justice system after rape. Anyone else feel uncomfortable at that statement? Especially after he inquired as to whether or not the harassment of women is really as big of a deal as everyone says it is. Maybe I'm being OVERLY cautious, but I think there is something in his little blurt. Like he had to backtrack in order to keep something hidden?

 

[ms spock]

I have a bad habit of sharing too much about my issues with family, bad experiences and things that have happened in the past with people I don't know very well, but like.

I think it sunk into him how much women actually do have to deal with from idiot men harassing us in the street, and he asked "Is that really as big of a problem as everyone is saying" which I answered honestly that yes it is for many women on a daily basis, and then I went on to talk about how rape victims are treated in the so called 'justice system' and then he blurted out "I don't want to talk about that" and then caught himself and let me finish talking.

I don't know why I do it...bring up these heavy subject matters at times when it's supposed to be a light party atmosphere? I said to him in the tent that I think I have boundary issues and that I told him too much, and he just nodded, but didn't say anything at the time...probably didn't want to be impolite or make me feel weird about it?

I think that you are right to question and break apart this full disclosure stuff right at the beginning, but I would also look at why you are putting yourself in such potentially dangerous situations? How many years have you known this client? And why did you continue staying when he leaves at 3am? You staying there until 6am? Who knew where you were? What were your safety plans? It is like you have a total recklessness and disregard towards your own safety @Philippa that I find most concerning.

If people share inappropriately then it is time to leave, they are red flags that people are not following the societally accepted social norms. Very disordered people, people on ice, people on other drugs, people with untreated mental illness, victims/people/women of all types of abuse and exploitative people do the inappropriate sharing, it cues people with appropriate boundaries and social skills to move a way to a safe distance. The guy sharing about the suicide and then you sharing about rape survivors in the justice system - makes for a lot of messiness. Conversations about how rape survivors are treated badly in the justice system, alert people to the fact that you are potentially a rape survivor yourself @Philippa. And it will alert a sexual predator to your vulnerability @Philippa. You are worth a lot more than putting yourself in such a potentially vulnerable situation and in the way of so much potential harm.

You were not harmed during the night, but did it occur to you that you could have been if they weren't safe men? Why are you putting yourself in this situation? Where are you boundaries and self care in maintaining your own life?

My suggestion is that you would work on and manage safe physical boundaries before you devote much energy to worrying about your emotional boundaries.

It is possible that you were being assessed by the men over the night, and I think they would have assessed you as a potential victim or someone who is emotionally all over the place. Either way I would not go back and spend time with them. You are too vulnerable if they are not on the up and up. I would suggest working on and making yourself safe and stable.

Physical contact so early on means you are marked as an easy lay as well. I feel concern about that as well. It puts you in the dangerous situation of a guy saying well she encouraged all this, and she sat around hugging and touching me in front of all these other guys - it sets you up to be potentially violated in your boundaries in a serious way. It is different if you knew these people for a couple of decades.

And you continuing on after he had said "I don't want to hear about this." (So you weren't listening and responding to the now that you were in.) Well you totally disregarded his boundaries, (and that has gotten you into trouble with the woman/friend on Facebook, who when you disregarded her boundaries, when she said she didn't want to talk about a conflict at that time) and she then felt justified to not honour your boundaries or face up to your challenging her giving dope to a woman with a serious psychiatric illness. You lost a friendship into the bargain, as well, as doing conflict on social media is not wise. So not honouring your own boundaries means other people won't honour them either. Not honouring other people's boundaries means, if they are that way inclined, they have then a reason to not honour what you say or what your boundaries are, it seems to me you are setting yourself up for failure.

What else was happening in the situation that you didn't see/notice/respond to as you weren't present in the now that you were in? You started talking and kept talking with out responding to what someone said to you in your conversation, which leads me to believe you weren't that present, and you were acting out your emotions and dumping them about, which is okay when you are a teenager, or in a safer place but most alarming to think of you being like that with unknown people.

Maybe think about making safer friendships without people using drugs or meeting people you hardly know and staying out all night with them?

You seem to keep on repeating a pattern with emotional and physical boundaries in your life, you don't honour your own, and then get upset when people don't honour yours, but you have taught them that they they don't need to honour them by not honouring your own, or likewise you don't honour other people's boundaries and they use that fact to not honour your boundaries or own their own stuff. This lack of safe physical and emotional boundaries could have serious consequences for your physical and mental well being.

I felt most concerned after reading your post.

 

[Philippa]

Am I supposed to never take any risks in case the people turn out to be not safe? I feel a bit interrogated ms spock. Recognising that you are concerned for my safety, I take that into account. It also feels like you are putting all your own fear onto me here. I feel like I'm being mothered and in trouble. I'm a grown woman...not a 15 year old kid. Maybe it was a bit reckless of me. I can admit that. I'm not asking to be interrogated about it though, I'm asking for help with why I do this.

Yes, the guys turned out to be fine and decent and did not try anything on me...though I thought later that the one friend probably picked up on the fact that I am a good listener and wanted to make sure his friend was ok and that is why they invited me in. Apart from that there was no bad behaviour. Not all men are going to rape a woman on her own. I felt comfortable with both of them.

Speaking about rape does not necessarily mean the guy will interpret it the way you said. I knew about the way the justice system works against rape victims before I even experienced rape and I've spoken about this with quite a few men who gave no indication that they perceived me this way, nor did they try and take advantage of me for it.

There are men who actually do care about women and are disgusted that men do this to them. He looked after me all night and made sure I felt safe. Even if he wanted to have sex with me, I also have those needs, and I don't need to take it as being used when I choose to also participate in sex with someone I like.

Why do people who are in relationships have such trouble allowing people who aren't in relationships to just have fun and not have to be so serious about sex and relationships. People are allowed to just have sex and not all guys are going to think less of the woman for it.

Some may not consider them relationship material or want to pursue them in that capacity, but then again, I know people who met their future partners this way and they never thought of them the way you say. Even if they did, the woman doesn't have to have anything to do with those guys again if she chooses and doesn't have to care what they think either.

It's nice to know you care ms spock, and your points are valid but I would appreciate not being spoken to like I was a teenager here. Cuddling up with someone does not mean I am considered an "easy lay" and even if it did mean that, what is wrong with having sex with someone you like? Sure, some guys do interpret cuddles the wrong way and I've met such men. I wouldn't sleep with them if they paid me. Other guys I've met can recognise a hug and closeness for what it is and it doesn't always mean it has to lead to sex.

I'm not sure how I was projecting being emotionally "all over the place" by listening to him speak about his housemate, or by telling him about my brother. I was not crying or getting upset, I was informing him in a straight forward manner about the difference between my family and his. I think maybe it was so he could know that in advance in case he did want a relationship with me. Maybe it was my way of pushing him away? In any case he showed me compassion and spoke to me as an equal and not a victim of anything. We had great conversations all the time during the party and on the way home as well. I spoke to him earlier and he was the same with me.

I realise it was a bit of a vulnerable situation to put myself in and hesitated about going in the first place, but I chose to go instead of being bored to death at work on sunday, as it's been so quiet and hardly any customers. I want to find more work somewhere consistent so I don't need to worry about money.I had a great time and we enjoyed each others company. If anything it should indicate that I am trusting my instincts and feelings about people, which is a good thing last I heard. There were women I had met through other people there and it was a friendly crowd.

As far as the other situation you mentioned, in regards to me apparently breaking boundaries with my ex friend on facebook and "doing conflict on social media"...I explained quite thoroughly why exactly I did not obey her demand in that scenario and it had everything to do with feeling like I was being shut down because she did not want to listen to what I had to say about her carelessness in giving psychedelics to her supposed friend who was on meds. We also spoke about it privately on chat, not in front of the world. I'm not that silly.

That's a little different to me continuing to talk about rape and the justice system with someone who actually indicated that he wanted to talk about how women were harassed, and said he agreed with me, but just didn't want to hear about the injustices at that time...mainly because it was a party and probably a downer...but why even bring the subject up?

 

[Philippa]

I'm seeing my counsellor tomorrow so will speak about it with her and see if I can be helped to understand this more.

I don't know that him sharing about his housemates suicide was inappropriate, as his friend prompted him to talk about it. He said later that he didn't want to talk about it but felt like he had to to keep his friend convinced that he wasn't going to do anything stupid like kill himself over it.

Me sharing about the injustice within the court system was not necessarily a bad topic to talk about, but just probably not right for the party scene we were at, but again, he brought it up and was obviously thinking about it. I don't believe that things should be held back if they are bothering us and I am the sort of person that people feel like they can talk about anything with at anytime, so it can be hard to distinguish when it is actually inappropriate.

I feel like his friend pushed him into speaking about a subject that he would have preferred to not speak about, but felt like he had to to keep his friend happy or put his mind at rest. I was there to listen and although it was weird from my perspective, I'm also all for people speaking up about things rather than festering about them and suicide can be such a taboo subject that part of me felt honoured that they trusted me enough to speak about it with me, and the other part was a bit like "I just met these guys...why am I being forced to listen to this". Obviously I had a choice about listening or not, but as I was feeling comfortable and enjoying the night I thought I'd just let him finish so his friend could feel satisfied that he wouldn't top himself over his housemate killing herself. It's a pretty big thing to happen, and it's better out than in.

 

[Philippa]

if he is doing ice...your in for one hell of a ride...can you tell when someone is tweaked ?

Yes, I know when someone is tweaked. This guy wasn't tweaked. He'd had a few drinks and a tiny bump of mdma. He was speaking well and openly but not in a tweaked manner. I would have left if I felt uncomfortable. I don't hang around people who do ice. My brother said some VERY inappropriate things to me 2 years ago and I haven't spoken to him since.

 

[Philippa]

My antennas went up at the "I don't want to talk about that" comment in regards to women dealing with the justice system after rape. Anyone else feel uncomfortable at that statement? Especially after he inquired as to whether or not the harassment of women is really as big of a deal as everyone says it is. Maybe I'm being OVERLY cautious, but I think there is something in his little blurt. Like he had to backtrack in order to keep something hidden?

Yes, I had a similar thought later on. Appeared like he was genuinely shocked that women really are so harassed as they say, and seemed like he was finally getting it, but then didn't want to hear about anything else on the subject.

I continued on because I think people need to hear that shit. He opened the door to the conversation and I continued on. Part of him spoke up about not wanting to hear it, and it being a party it was a light atmosphere and maybe a bit too happy for such a dark topic, but again, he's the one who brought it up...not me.

 

[Philippa]

I would say that he was the one with the boundary issue. That's too heavy a topic to bring up around a stranger. His boundary lapse made you feel comfortable too soon.

That's what I thought too. Him talking so openly about his housemate gave me the feeling as though we were friends, but my conscious mind the next day knew that we weren't...we'd just met. I initially was not going to go to the party, because of the weirdness and I did not know this guy well, but then I changed my mind...mainly because I was bored at work and kind of liked him and wanted to get to know him more.

To my knowledge he was not on ice, but then again, I only met him at the end of the first night and have no knowledge of what, if anything, he was indulging in.

I only know of one person at the party over the weekend just past that definitely was on ice and he was a tweaker. I spoke to him briefly but I told the guy that I did not like him much. He said he doesn't spend much time with him, but he's an awesome dj...which he was. He played the best set of the night in my opinion...but yeah, tweaker.

If he is doing ice, he would be too unstable to be able to properly gauge appropriate boundaries. Unfortunately, that leaves it up to you to maintain that boundary and protect yourself from feeling disappointed and invalidated.

Well, he did mention to me on the day we drove to the party that he didn't really want to speak about the situation, but felt his friend needed him to convince him that he wasn't going to do anything stupid. It wasn't a planned thing, but the subject came up at his friends prompting.

I think it was probably normal of his friend to want to know that his friend was ok and not planning to do anything silly...but they were a bit intoxicated and probably the boundaries of appropriateness had slipped, or his need to know his friend was ok was more important to him than whether it was appropriate of him to speak about it in front of a woman they'd just met.

His behaviour all weekend was nothing short of respectful and asked me if I was comfortable with this, not comfortable with that...etc. He was nice to me. I haven't been treated that well by a guy in a long time.

I would have taken his response as him feeling uncomfortable with what you shared. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. That tells you that he's not ready to be that kind of confidante to you yet.

Are you speaking about me speaking about my brother and father? I agree...it was wrong of me to put that on him that early and I feel bad about it. I felt comfortable too because of what he shared, but I don't think from what he said that he really wanted to share it with anyone, but felt pressured to.

I would be more concerned about how his boundary intrusions will affect you in the friendship. That way you know where to set your boundaries with him. kwim?

I think maybe it's best if I speak to him about it tomorrow when I visit to pay him some money for petrol and food etc. He took good care of me and I want to see him again and be buddies, but I'm a bit concerned that this whole messiness has made things too weird?