I Want To Kill...

[sun seeker]

Sometimes we try to fix too much and forget that non judgemental listening is the best help.

I had to do more than just "like" this post. This comment deserves to stand out. So, so many times I see someone reaching out for the understanding they don't get anywhere else in their life and people are immediately telling them what they should do, even if they have made it clear in the original post that this isn't what they are looking for. Sometimes it has happened to me.

I believe that each of us has an internal spark, a guiding light, the strength within us that knows what we need and how to live our lives the best way possible. Sometimes all we need is support and encouragement and then we can find that within ourselves, and find the strength to go on, and to find our own solutions.

For me, what is most helpful about this forum is the sense of being able to relax among people who have some idea of what my experience of life is like. There are very, very few people in my life who have any idea what I go through or can relate to it in any way, and quite a few who are quick to treat me like a leper or give simplistic advice. This is one place I can share what is real for me, but there is still often that fear of being completely honest when I anticipate some of the responses I might get. It is such a normal human need to reach out and connect to others. Sometimes that is all we need. Many times people feel helpless to see another person suffering and are quick to jump in with advice when it might be more helpful just to hear them and say "I'm sorry it's so hard. I've been there. I care about you."

I haven't answered @otakujome's posts for a while because I feel that helplessness to find a solution, but maybe that isn't really what he needs. He's been given the same advice so many times, to get help from resources people are assuming are available to him, but that isn't his reality. He is a teenager with PTSD who is being abused both at home and at school in a country with extremely inadequate psychiatric and child protective services. I too wish he would not drink (there is a reason the legal drinking age in some countries used to be 21 - alcohol can damage your brain before then). But I'll express concern and stop there. He has more than enough judgement in his life already.

 

[Philippa]

Showing understanding and listening to someone in pain will do far more to help them than jumping down their throat and telling them what they need to do. End of story. He didn't come here asking for advice, but people feel the need to shove it down his throat anyway.

He came here to vent his pain, connect and hopefully find people who give a shit about him because it's obvious his parents aren't conveying that message. He does not need to receive a lecture from another authority figure who thinks he knows what's best for him.

Showing empathy and understanding is not saying it's ok to drink a litre of rum...it's saying "I get that you're in pain and that's what you reached for, and IT'S ok...we're here and we aren't going to judge you for it.". He feels bad enough...he doesn't need to be made to feel like he's not being responsible enough at 14. He's not supposed to be responsible at that age.

I can see that you are, in your own way, expressing a sense of helplessness that we are all feeling, and maybe he does need to take the bull by the horns. Maybe he can take the empathy and understanding he is being shown by some and also listen to what you are saying as well, when he can.

 

[ms spock]

@otakujome you are not in a position to be able to drink. The title of this thread is "I want to kill.." therefore you really need to NOT be doing anything that effects of inhibits your impulse control.

It is dangerous to suggest to a young man with such extreme emotions that drinking is not so bad when he could really lose it and hurt/kill himself or someone else. If @otakujome ends up severely hurting himself or someone else then his life could be ruined. He has to step up to the plate right now and make some decisions.

@anonymous is right, unfairly he has to grow up too quickly and make some major life decisions.

However, harm minimisation is a good thing to do and having a sober drinking buddy is a good look, but I don't think @otakujome has many friends at this time.

I don't want you to die.
I don't want you to end up in the justice system.
I don't want you to end up with brain damage.
I don't want you to be vulnerable because of being drunk and being taken advantage of.
I don't want you to kill or harm yourself.
I don't want you to kill or harm someone else.

I will not enable your behaviours because you are too, too precious to lose.

Little brother @otakujome you know that you can PM me anytime, and if required I can do a special disco set in the chatroom in your honour.

 

[Philippa]

No one said it's 'not so bad' to be drinking ms spock. Instead I focussed on the fact that he is drinking without breathing down his throat about it, and by saying that I understand why he feels like it's the only thing he can do at this time. Do you really think lecturing him is going to be any more effective at getting him motivated, or will that just make him rebel even more? I know what being told "don't" did to me at his age. It made me do it even more.

So now I'm 'enabling' his drinking by showing understanding? WOw...ok.

 

[sun seeker]

I can see that you are, in your own way, expressing a sense of helplessness that we are all feeling, and maybe he does need to take the bull by the horns. Maybe he can take the empathy and understanding he is being shown by some and also listen to what you are saying as well, when he can.

When you say "you" are you referring to the person who has been posting anonymously?

 

[shimmerz]

One of the real issues with PTSD management is recognizing the behaviours that make our situation worse than it already is. I remember wanting my parents 'to die' but 'I want to kill' is never a place that I went. That doesn't make me better or worse than anyone, but I have to be honest, drinking and wanting to kill people is a bad combination no matter how one looks at it. What does a child do (or shouldn't do) who is so angry that they want to kill? Looking at this situation now for those of us who have raised children, matured, what would we have wanted for ourselves if we had PTSD (which most of us did) and were 14 years old again and looking for advice from our 'older self'. Would we really want to be given permission to go out of control?

 

[sun seeker]

you are not in a position to be able to drink.

I don't think anyone is arguing with that. What we're saying is that he already knows that, and telling him again isn't the most helpful thing. He's a very intelligent young man. I'm sure he is well aware of the dangers of alcohol. To me, the fact that one of his symptoms is self-harm tells me he is turning that rage against himself instead of taking it out on others, and perhaps posting about it is a way of trying to lessen the pain he feels rather than actually taking it out on others or himself.

@otakujome, maybe you could clear this up rather than us arguing about it. Do you actually feel you are in danger of acting on the rage you are expressing, or were you just venting? What kind of response from us is most helpful?

 

[Philippa]

When you say "you" are you referring to the person who has been posting anonymously?

Yes, I'm addressing mr anonymous.

 

[Philippa]

I don't think anyone is arguing with that. What we're saying is that he already knows that, and telling him again isn't the most helpful thing. He's a very intelligent young man. I'm sure he is well aware of the dangers of alcohol.

Yes, it's kind of insulting to speak down to someone as though they aren't aware that something is bad for them...even a teenager who knows more than anyone that the adult world thinks he 'shouldn't' drink.

To me, the fact that one of his symptoms is self-harm tells me he is turning that rage against himself instead of taking it out on others, and perhaps posting about it is a way of trying to lessen the pain he feels rather than actually taking it out on others or himself.

I agree, and that's how I've also been taking otakujome's posts...as a venting to help leak out overloads of rage and anger and pain in side him. WHen the alcohol wears off, the pain is still there. it can't be numbed forever.

@otakujome, maybe you could clear this up rather than us arguing about it. Do you actually feel you are in danger of acting on the rage you are expressing, or were you just venting? What kind of response from us is most helpful?

I think this is a great approach. :)

 

[ms spock]

After the third day I was spending 12 hours in front of a computer programming, and in 2-3 days I made a full 'skeleton' for a game in C++. I cut basically all social contact and just worked for a week (uh, eh, might be a workaholic... or I'm simply stuck at that mode due to whats normal). The last day I just drank, like, whatever I could, I drank 11 glasses of wine and 1 glass of whiskey, and went to sleep a while later, sad and depressively self-analytic (as I am when I get drunk drunk). Uh, memory mushy as always, so I can't differentiate before and after... When I got home, I realized that my room was messed, my money turned upside down and that I'm -€100...

If he dies from a combination of drug taking and alcohol intake then all support and listening in the world don't mean anything @sunseeker, but by all means contribute love and care in the best way that you know how.

If he gets hit by a car when he is in a black out, where he is losing so much money, all the care and love in the world doesn't mean a thing.

I don't think anyone is arguing with that.

I actually disagree, there is a sentiment that drinking is what he is using to cope now and really seeing all the things that he COULD do, that that is not that bad. I completely disagree. He could be causing himself permanent brain damage. He could get liver failure. He could get raped because he is so young and vulnerable.

He is drinking a litre of rum. I couldn't do that. I would end up in hospital if I did that. His drinking is not teenage experimentation or blowing off a bit of steam. He is binge drinking to the point he could kill himself. He has to stop. End of story. Otherwise he might not come on the forum anymore and that would suck.

What we're saying is that he already knows that, and telling him again isn't the most helpful thing. He's a very intelligent young man. I'm sure he is well aware of the dangers of alcohol.

He is a beautiful young man, in grave distress. He is highly intelligent. He is 14. He needs to be told "NO!" He still has no idea what the long term effects of alcohol drinking is, and he is just obliterating his pain.

To me, the fact that one of his symptoms is self-harm tells me he is turning that rage against himself instead of taking it out on others, and perhaps posting about it is a way of trying to lessen the pain he feels rather than actually taking it out on others or himself.

I am all for him posting to reduce his pain. But I will point to the title of this thread which says he wants to kill. That is a serious statement for a 14 year old to make. And it is not ironic or strategic. He is literally in that much pain he WANTS TO KILL! I don't want him killing himself or anyone else. He has martial arts experience. His body is a weapon. A shove or a punch from him could end in death, whereas for another kid it could end in embarassment. This is serious stuff.

 

[sun seeker]

I get that @Ms Spock (I was looking for something to quote, but really it's your whole post). We're all concerned. We're just saying that judgement isn't the best way to get him to stop drinking or deal with his anger better.

At least I don't think it is. But I am still hoping @otakujome will tell us what he thinks.

 

[Friday]

As a parent, and PTSD-peep, as I said before... Uncontrolled drinking with PTSD is dangerous (albeit better than many alternatives)... However O wasn't coming here concerned about his drinking. Drinking to excess 3 or 4 times a year in a country where he's legally old enough to do so is as concerning to me as my getting drunk 3-4 times a year. I'm willing to lay $20 Anon is American, or $10 Canadian. We're more puritanitcal down here on this side of the border, but we still get hung up on age on this side of the pond far, far more than anywhere else in the world I've ever lived. Here, teen drinking is a huge problem for many reasons, not the least of which being that it's illegal. So, too, that children & teens are not legally allowed to be taught responsible drinking by the adults in their lives (no drinking at home, no drinking in restaurants or cafés even if you're supervised by an adult... Means not being held to standards of behavior) just sends out huge blaring klaxons of danger-teen-drinking-danger-wrong!

When I have my son with me on the continent? We drink. His is a lemoncello more than half watered down with soda or sparkling water as a digestive, or small beer, low content wine, etc. What is considered appropriate for his age. Here in the States? We do not. Although I'd reconsider that if we travelled less. We live near the Canadian border... I don't want his first legal time drinking to be the standard (for our area) unruly American kids out of control flooding across the border to get shit faced at 18, because our drinking age down here is 21. Nor do I want him drinking to puking in the woods at teen parties with no supervision whatsoever (or under the roof of the resident alcoholic & pedophile brigade).

It is not a fact that drinking at 14 is wrong. It's a very ethnocentric opinion.

If he were 40 years old, with the exact same story, he wouldn't be slammed with "No! Wrong! Bad dog!" ... It would be "Maybe that's not such a great idea." & "Hey, man. Been there, and done that, and here were my results."

To my mind... Yes we have some younger members on this board. But I am going to treat them as peers & adults. If they're responsible enough to be coming here to discuss & talk about the same problems we all have? They get the same answers.