Challenging My Non-relational Personality

[Chava]

I'm not anti-social, quite empathetic, but I am admittedly anti-relational and very avoidant. I'm safe in a nerdy INTP (Meyers-Briggs) world, where I notice strangers first by the f*cked up way they do things. It's not that I'm arrogant, but that I'm obsessive about spotting patterns and logic. So this has landed me on committees, challenging my boss, or representing my colleagues at the state level. It's all business. I love my work. But when the relationships matter (and they do) I feel really cramped.

A colleague hijacked another meeting with another 90 crazy ideas that don't relate well to fixing her problem and we all had to listen and try to turn her around. But she doesn't listen to anyone else. I have 2-3 simple solutions, I want to support her and the department, but after that meeting I was too frustrated to even talk to her. If I didn't have a heart, I would have bitched her out. But I do have a heart and I don't know how to use it, how to balance my empathy and concern for her concerns, with my more pressing issue of the poorly baked plans we all need to deal with. I don't know how to talk to her and sound like I'm on her side. Out of respect for both of us, we have some space at the moment and more members of the dept have been called in to help us prioritize and support each other. I'm always working for higher principles, what is better for all of us, but I can be the bitch when it is a messy process that should be simple and neat. I put work above work relationships but I know it all works better together.

In another story, a friend invited me to a short retreat. I barely know this person but am interested in her group of meditators and healthy connections. I'd make time for this. I WANT good relationships. But right away I notice how terrible the paperwork is, and that they are over-charging. In the past I would have said "f*ck it. NO." And that's how I stayed isolated. I saw some imperfection in how something was coming together and chose not to see past it. Well, I'll send my check and go because I do want to connect and have this experience.

I don't think of myself as selfish. I just don't have high relational needs or skills. But when a good event or friend comes along, I tend to miss the right information and find a way to write them off before even getting to know them. I am seeing this subtley changing. It has meant bitching about awful paperwork (a short retreat just needs an rsvp and a good-will donation). I will go and respect my time with others, feeling connected and enjoying the slower, connected life of a small part of my community. I have to plan for these thngis....and filter beyond my initial judgements which have kept me isolated for years. I've been not-good-enough or a total snob, I'm not sure...

It takes effort and pushing myself beyond my depression bubble of isolation, but I want to meet others where they are at, even with their confusing f*cked up paper work....I'll do it, and I'll meditate with you. My non-relational world began with hiding in closets, then hiding in interesting forests. But now i'm interested in following through and staying connected to good fellow humans. I keep going to my loving, fun, and supportive AA group. I keep going back to my therapist when I want to feel like she is just another stranger, like my whole family, but she is not. I want to understand who she is and who I am in relationship. I am learning about relationship...and what overly logical parts of my mind to filter out of relationship so I can maybe just have a friendship. Just a friend. Not a partner in lobbying at the Capitol, just someone to hang out with.

So I'll go to the imperfect retreat and focus on the people and possible relationships.

If you are generally non-relational how to you challenge yourself to make new connections or friends? What blocks you?

(I write long-ass posts, but this is only the second post Iv'e ever written on relationships...haha! Maybe there is hope for me someday!!)???

 

[Nam]

You know, with me, it's the length of time it takes for me to get used that person. It can take a long time. I am also a INTP, sometimes a INTJ. I think I'm more judging when I'm healthier. Anyway, I'm pretty good with acquaintances, but when it comes to friends, I have three. One lives on the other side of the country. One is my spouse. One is the person I hang out with that knows me. Doesn't mean that we talk about anything serious. She's completely different than I. However, this is a new development. We have been friends for 6 years. She asked what was up with me withdrawing which opened the door to talking about more serious stuff. So, my friend list of two went to three just recently. I'm good with that.

I can totally relate to you on the logic and reasoning bit. It's frustrating as hell. There has been so many times I wanted to yell, leave your emotions at the door. I'm finding out that majority of people have no idea how to do that. I can be pretty emotional when it hits a trauma nerve, but the rest of the time, I'm calm and collected.

Friends are good. They tend to know when to push to get out more. Just today, friends convinced me I should go out to eat for lunch. That caused me to change clothes, put some make up on, take off my ugly hat that I've been wearing around the house, and put on the fake it till you make it mask. It worked though! I couldn't eat and I stuttered a lot, but hey, I got out. Small steps.

 

[Chava]

I can totally relate to you on the logic and reasoning bit. It's frustrating as hell. There has been so many times I wanted to yell, leave your emotions at the door.

I was definitely raised by a raging INTJ. But my sister says I'm an INFP. In my healthiest, most compassionate and spiritual sense, yes...but I don't dwell there often. The INTP allows me to view to world objectively. It helps me function on committees where side chat about our kids doesn't really matter. It leaves others with the impression that I am strong and not vulnerable. It leaves me nearly clueless as not how to make a friend. My INTP self has kept me safe, curious, and alive in a little bubble. I do have emotions, I simply don't trust them around others.

 

[ghotiff]

This is what I am learning....

I am great at de bonos black hat, that is the ability to constructively critique and find all the flaws. Yes, this is a good work skill, but definitely not a good relationship building one :)

What I've learnt is that the reason I am so good at is that I was raised by a perfectionist, rigid, anxiety based mother. Perfection was required and if you couldn't achieve it (or hide it) prepare to emotionally pay for those flaws. So... I learnt to see and predict flaws everywhere.

With this now as the framework for why.....How am I learning to get better with relationships at work....

I try to not hold people to the standard I was brought up in. Recognizing it is the first step.

Books on social skills. Lots of books.

Clear rules work best for me. One for me is the first 5min of every meeting should be chit chat. (I'm getting better at this).

Another is to realise that some people are not good at their job, and they don't really care. If I'm not their manager, I'll lead them to water...but I try to remember to not shove their face in the water to make them drink. (Bad analogy, but I'm sure you get it).

Another is to "go slower". With my mother I learnt to think quick and always be on my toes. Others are not like this, and I'm learning that it's okay. In the beginning I would count 2 of the other persons blinks between sentences to keep me focused on them but add pauses in.

Hope that helps. I realise this is more about developing good work relationships, rather than friendships but I'm hoping it's useful.

 

[jaccat]

I have to keep the two worlds seperate. I'm trying really hard to step back at work and not get totally frustrated when things don't go to plan, nor rush in to rescue the situation. That is hard. I am a perfectionist. People at work see me as confidant, outgoing, authoritative, and I guess when I'm there I am.

Then I go home, shut myself in, and don't go out for days at a time. I have two close friends, they live 300 miles away. If I'm lucky I get to see them twice a year. I've been friends with them since school and by some miracle they've stuck with me through all the crap I've thrown at them. My relationship with them is on a level all of its own.

I am trying to challenge myself to get out and make more connections. Last year I joined a walking group that meets roughly once a month. I still don't find going along comfortable, but I make myself in the hope that it will get easier. The group is linked to a larger organisation where one day I might be able to make more connections. For me it's balancing the anxieties these situations produce with my pig headed side that will push me through anything.

In the last couple of years I guess I have also developed an online personality. I feel comfortable posting in forums and in a few select chat groups, where I feel like I can really be me because of the anonymity these places provide. No one outside these sites know I spend time on them. If they did they would be totally shocked! I know the connection these sites provide is not the same as physically meeting people, but perhaps for me it is a safe way to build up my confidence to that.

 

[Nam]

I'm reading a book called Running on Empty. It's about how emotionally neglectful care givers influence to the child now negatively affects the adult. It was an eye opening book. I realized that I found my emotions in the way. Most people are not like that. Most people feel then think then act. For me, either the "feel" is missing altogether or the "think" is missing. This is how I get the two extremes.

All of us that have been abused learn to listen intently. If you control your anger well and you mirror emotions well, people will come to you! But, they will seem emotionally draining.

The helpful tools in the book might be great for a person that was only emotionally neglected, but for a survivor of abuse, we have some strong feelings. Feelings that no normal person wants to hear about. There's a middle ground here. It seems like I've been doing it already. Go to a therapist for the strong feelings. But the day to day feelings can be expressed to friends. Many times this mutual expressing is what many women like in relationships. For me, it's a bit lopsided. I tend to listen, understand, and gently give some insight that might not have been thought about. But it rarely goes to me. I have severe stage fright about starting a sentence with "I feel...." and actually state an emotion not an action. The only exception is here. Interesting? Indeed.

(Disclaimer: when an emotional flashback hits, all interaction is off until I can sort it out. Those flashbacks are powerful. Hubs is stlling learning how to handle them after 10years of having these. It's best to save those for a therapist and to avoid contact with normal people until resolved...or at least not shown.)

So, @Chava , thanks for starting this thread. Very interesting and intriguing.

@ghotiff seeing flaws in people is easier for us trained in it, eh? Maybe there's a job for that? Job recruiter? Anyway, I can relate.

 

[Chava]

I've been very quiet. Went to therapy appointment. Couldn't look at therapist because I can't trust that we're in a relationship and she won't want see me after insurance dumps me in a couple months. Can't put anything into words. Too hard or scary, I'll be left alone with whatever I figure out.

f*cked up on extra sleeping meds, a compression brace, heating pad, and e-cigs....will sleep like a princess maybe, whatever that feels like!!!

I relate a lot to having no emotions.....I have body sensations but no corresponding feelings or thoughts. Why CBT doesn't help my stuff much. So early childhood....all the self-regulation an emotional stuff is still at the level of my body....pain, feeling randomly cold, getting f*cked up a bit. Though I did feel some sad and scared today. I can't talk about it. But yes, it gets separated out and I think I'm hoping to integrate it all better...not sure if that can ever happen.

I'm a very good listener, good perspective, non-judging. But it takes a weirdo or wise person to see beyond my unapproachable front and talk to me. Then they learn I can listen. I just do nothing to instigate relationships. Nothing at all