Human Connection Freaks Me Out

[Deleted member 1860]

I also think they gather people around them for their own purposes and agendas and do not back away if there is a lack of compatibility. I believe they choose to stay in the friendship and get what suits them out of it.

Sad but true. I have come to realize that many people don't really have standards for their friends. That is, these people won't accept certain behavior from a partner, but if a friend exhibits such behavior, its somehow OK? I don't understand it.....I really don't. Yes, we are judged by the company we keep, whether it be a partner, a friend, a whatever.... I've had ex's want to remain friends with me after I've dumped them for shit behavior. Uhm, say WHAT? Sorry buddy, but I have the same standards for my friends that I have for my romantic interests. I dumped you because you lied about major things, but you think I am OK with my friends lying to me? *rolls eyes* OK, a bit of a tangent... Lack of compatibility? I'm out of there. I think people are afraid of being alone so they keep these sub-standard friends around and get whatever they can out of the relationship. Sad.

I think trauma has caused us to want to be authentic.

Yes. I don't tolerate BS liars. I am amazed at how many people lie about the most ridiculous crap.

I think this is true and have been trying to understand what it is about PTSD that makes inauthenticity so unbearable.

I don't know if its a PTSD issue exactly. I do know that after 30++ years of having a parent whom you could never trust to tell you the truth, there is only one option. The damn truth. Now don't get me wrong, little white lies are OK. You know, the "does this make my butt look big?" sort of little white lie. Anything else is unacceptable. Don't give me some hazy shade of grey answer instead of shooting straight. 99.9% of the time, the fact that someone lied to me is a lot worse than what they actually lied to me about.

But back to the OP....

I don't know how to get a real connection with someone.....I don't know if I could do it to save my life. Don't get me wrong, I seem to be able to connect with people online quite easily. I have a few people that I message with daily. In real life? Not so easy. I mean I can be social in class, I can chat up random people in public like in stores and such, but I have no idea how to actually make a friend. No. Freaking. Idea. The whole idea of it freaks me out. I don't know if I could do it. People judge for everything, and in the typical American view on what is valued, I have nothing.... I am disabled, unable to work right now, not self-sufficient, poor, and the list goes on. I fear the judgment like no other. But then I think of the flip side. When I am able to work again, if I get off of disability, will other people suddenly see me as worthy and friendable? God, my mind could not take it! I already struggle with the discovery that people are extremely superficial.....something I discovered when I lost a lot of weight really fast and so people were suddenly really nice and attentive toward me. Almost two years later and I still can't accept it. Maybe i should just accept a solitary life?

 

[Flossy]

Maybe i should just accept a solitary life?

I have said this exact thing to my very supportive and well-adjusted husband (well-adjusted in the way that he functions well in the world. He too was raised by a Narcissist mother which made him avoid uncomfortable things, but he worked on that).

His answer is always. No, you don't accept a solitary life if it makes you feel lonely. You just don't let people "get sticky" . You hold back on connecting more and more with them until you have had enough conversations to gauge whether they listen to you and respect what you can and cannot put up with.

We use the circle model...there are only one or two others allowed in the inner circle with me....and there are 3 or 4 circles around those. People can move in and out of the closer circles, depending on their behaviour and how much tolerance I have at the time. It helps me greatly to do charts to keep these things solidified in my brain. I use chalk on the walls a lot. Then later write it all out in a scrap book. It's easy to rub chalk off if someone visits who you dont want to see your life lessons, though I had two tradies working on painting my ceilings and they loved it.

My husband tells me to "flit" in life. Don't let people tie me down, book me in, assume or demand. It is working for me.

The other point is that there could be one person who turns up who it is worth the effort it takes for years to sort through the communications. They may become a partner or a friend. Mine became my husband. I don't know if we are designed to have more than one or two true friends' or compatible partners.

I am amazed at how other people refer to others as their 'friends' just because they know them or have a chat with them. I think they are delusional.

My circumstances are similar to yours. After a parent who never told me the truth, there is only one option. The damn truth. In my mind, it's not fkg hard. It's simple.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I don't know if we are designed to have more than one or two true friends' or compatible partners.

Anymore, I don't think so. But, I "see" all these people who have so many friends and it makes me feel worthless. Deep down I guess I know that perception is off and that most people don't really have a ton of friends.

I am amazed at how other people refer to others as their 'friends' just because they know them or have a chat with them. I think they are delusional.

I think the proliferation of websites that have a "friend" function has indeed changed the meaning of what a friend is. Don't get me wrong, its not like things were perfect in the pre-facebook days and such, but I know that social media has definitely had a hand in it all. There are tons of social types of sites in which you can merely stumble upon someones profile or merely see a post of theirs and with a click of the button, make them your "friend". The only site I use the friend function on is Facebook, and truth be told, none of those people are actually my friends. I actually had an actual friend on facebook who had been a friend to me for over 20 years. She did a few not so nice things to me on my wall and I un-friended her. (This was back in the days when you had a wall and couldn't prevent people from writing on it if they were your friend.) So, of course, I unfriended her because I don't need the whole world to see her put downs. She takes it as me ending the real life friendship, too. I guess she thought that if I was a real friend to her that I should put up with her crap? But I digress. A bit tangential, but I guess my point was that social media does indeed skew the perception of what a friend is and adds unneeded complications.

And yes, people think if they simply know someone and have talked with them once that they are a friend. I don't get it. This is the definition of acquaintance! But again, the definition of friend has changed over time and in our very extroverted world, the number of friends you have is an indicator of your worth. (Sad to say.) I can't even tell you how many times people have come at me with the "but you don't have any friends!" put down. (This was just because I never talked about my friends around them.) I guess I get a bit frustrated in that I have to advertise all of my relationships in order to be deemed worthy by (certain) people. I would never think that in order to be someones friend that they had to already have an entourage of friends.

My circumstances are similar to yours. After a parent who never told me the truth, there is only one option. The damn truth. In my mind, it's not fkg hard. It's simple.

Ya, very simple. Lying is SO HARD! I have one lie that I have to keep up in regards to how I sustained a head injury because I had to start lying from day one so that I could get treatment (for the physical injury) and not be forced into the psych ward (because I hurt myself). Its one of those things that almost never comes up, and I only have to lie to a few people (ie doctors) when seeking treatment, but its exhausting having to remember exactly what I said to whom! How do people do this day in and day out? I know I also have the conscience factor which liars don't have, but still, its exhausting not to mention time consuming to have to lie. Sorry, but I don't have time for that stuff. But, then again, seasoned liars have more skill and they lie to get what they want. I guess that's the very selfish payoff for them. In the end, lying is selfish and its all about "me" and my needs trumping you and yours in a very manipulative sort of way. Blah.

 

[Dana1010]

...in our very extroverted world, the number of friends you have is an indicator of your worth. (Sad to say.) I can't even tell you how many times people have come at me with the "but you don't have any friends!" put down.

This is exactly why you're amazed at how many "friends" everyone around you has while you have none yourself; they aren't really friends, they just glom onto pretty much anyone to stave off the dreaded "loser" label. I had an acquaintance (that's right) who up and decided that we were going to be friends and started inviting me to things. One night she invited me to a restaurant with two of her other friends. They didn't like me and I didn't like them. It was sort of a disaster, and I suspect she knew we weren't compatible from the get go. It turned out those two were her only friends, and she only brought me around to prove to them that they weren't.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

@Dana1010

Its sad how many people will do these things just to avoid the "loser" perception. Anymore, I just don't care if people think I don't have friends. Lets just say its a complicated issue because yes, I do have people in my life, but because my mind is a bit warped (for lack of a better term), I don't even like to call people a FRIEND (even though they would most definitely meet the definition of a friend.) Its a protection mechanism. Huh, funny, most people do anything and everything they can in order to have as many people in their life with that "friend" label, but I run like hell from that label. Sigh. I do the same with romantic relationships, too. I keep guys in that nebulous region where there is no label. You have no label, you aren't a friend a romantic partner, you can't hurt me. Yeah, it works in my mind....

 

[Flossy]

@itsKismet

I hear you and feel the same. The wonderful thing is....if the other person is worth the effort it takes, e.g.: the right partner for you or best friend, they will keep trying and keep learning about what you need and how you need it. They won't stop, get the s...ts, go away or stay in limbo. If they are perfect for you they will push through whatever barriers there are and before you know it, they will know all your barriers and be right there in your inner circle beside you. It took about five years with my husband, from the start of the relationship before I felt I could stop questioning the rightness of it. To this day, he still studies how to get through his training so that we can understand each other more. (I have to find the books but he reads them studiously) If you get that in a partner, you wont need a best friend.

I am going to get more dogs instead. :) My o'l boy Pom is on his last legs and I have only just decided to find a puppy to bring into our home. I want more joy inside my home and I want to put up a buffer to the grief I will feel when he goes. Joy balances out grief and pain and sets the scales to sit straight. That works for me. Nice talking to you all about this subject. What a blessing this is to have the chance to do this. I'm off to have coffee now. Another one of life's blessings. (not religious, just love the word)

 

[Iolanthe]

Hi all... I joined several years ago, but couldn't even log on until now. This is the first thread of conversations I have read...and it all sounds very familiar. I used to live in a pretty small place, in a very controlled environment. When things did happen that were unexpected, I flipped out.... I simply could not handle them. At all. I still struggle with this a lot. Especially during my period. (some months are worse than others for everything) At one point, about 4 years ago, I knew the cycle had to stop, because it was going to 'kill' me. So I moved to California and temporarily back in with my parents. I found a part time job dealing with the public. It was good and not good at the same time. I do well - or better, at least - with things when I feel I am needed. This part was good. The bad part was the constant threat of someone doing something bad. We had some customers that were threatening (to me) and one that even threw something at me. The manager turned out to be exactly what I didn't need and I went into to a full on break down. In the middle of all this, I actually met my (now) husband. He is a unique individual, and while anything but perfect, what he did allowed me to actually break down and not be afraid for myself or my daughter. I still can't stand going outside; going anywhere unfamiliar; being around people - I get horribly stressed out and have anxiety attacks or panic attacks - sometimes even at just the thought. On the other hand, necessity forced me out into the work world again and I am very blessed to have found a job in an environment that works for me and where I feel people value and (to the best of their limitations) are protective of me. There are certain people that truly freak me out - but I can physically stay away from them for the most part, and when I can't it is a learning experience that is beginning to show me (when I force myself to actively think about it) that what happens in my mind is not what ends up actually happening. It is horrible to go through still....but I am trying to remember that all the anxiety and stress and imaginings of horrible things are not what actually, literally happened. In fact, it's usually kind of a disappointing anti-climactic kind of feeling that also make me angry and anxious. It's too twisted up... I know all this is going on inside me - but no one else does. It's not evident to anyone.... So it constantly surprises me what people say are their impressions of me. A couple weeks ago someone actually said they thought I was a "happy go lucky" kind of person... Never - and I do mean never - have I been described as anything even close to that. I can't begin to connect myself with that description. Anyway.... My husband tells me all the time that on the one hand he knows I love him; but more often he says I don't show it; I don't say it; my actions around the house when I am home are anything but indicating that I care and maybe I'd be better off with someone else. The truth is I don't know what I'd do without him. I just really suck at showing anything well except maybe frustration and anger....otherwise I am just very stoic...It's not safe to communicate anything because it can be used against me. Speaking to the hard time finding someone you can trust and really talk to.... This has also been my challenge through most of my life.... I've had two people in my life who I could trust and really talk to....and there were many years in between with no one. Those gems are out there. I hope and pray we all find even just one.

 

[DogwoodTree]

So...I intended to just lurk for a while...very interesting reading here. But this thread...y'all are saying the things I've been trying to put into words.

I want to be connected with people. I spend time with people in social settings. I try to talk with people. There's just. no. connection. They say they feel connected to me. But I don't feel connected with them. I'm too distant on the inside, like there's this huge abyss between the real me and the rest of the world. Everyone else sees the mask that activates on their side of the abyss to represent me. But I'm not in the mask...I'm too far away, buried too deep inside.

Okay, so now I guess I have to go post an intro thread, if I'm emerging from lurkdom already. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks, that other people "get" it. I really thought I was going insane, and maybe I am lol, but at least maybe not on this point.

 

[Chava]

I'm too distant on the inside, like there's this huge abyss between the real me and the rest of the world.

I've felt that forever.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[DogwoodTree]

I've felt that forever.

Yes, "forever" pretty much describes it. For decades I had told myself that I just hadn't learned enough social skills, that I just had to try harder. I'm 41, and only in the past couple of years started to admit to myself that it's more than that. So now the hopelessness sets in, and it's hard to keep trying, knowing that each failure is further "proof" that it will never be different. Learning how to "want" connection without being devastated when it doesn't happen has been a very, very difficult needle to thread.

 

[Chava]

only in the past couple of years started to admit to myself that it's more than that. So now the hopelessness sets in,

I relate to this. I was so super busy with overworking and different committees and gigs. It felt like I was around humans, it felt like I was connected. But I wasn't really. Once I burned out and had to pull out of some of this stuff I realized how isolated I was....and hadn't really done anything towards better relationships in a couple decades. "Trying harder" is just exhausting. Because I don't follow through or I feel a bubble around myself even with others and we never get close. I can't somehow do it differently. I have had a few very good friends come and go and move for jobs. Turned out they also had early trauma or attachment issues, like being in an eastern European orphanage for their first 8 months, quite neglected.

It does feel hopeless sometimes. It helps me to recognize that this is partly a quirk, something to accept, but it's not impossible to work around. My therapist has given me hope there too. She admits some of it is nearly intractable but not "impossible." We're working on it. It's a big deal to just be in therapy and have someone see me and know about me. Beyond that I am allowing myself to not be like others, with tight groups of friends and family. I stick with an AA group I feel comfortable with and appreciate that I am very good in the colleague role...good at supporting others and also feeling valued. Beyond those associations, I'm quite a hermit, but working on a more positive connection to myself and things that feel safe...music, art, nature, reading...feeling "connected" in less obvious but still real ways.

Do you have a therapist @DogwoodTree ? I don't know what your trauma history is, but if connection has been an issue forever, you might relate to Laurence Heller's book "Healing Developmental Trauma". I was blown away because it described me and my struggles so well...like there was a reason, and it wasn't that I was a total f*ck up. The recommended treatment isn't very common, so that doesn't seem helpful, but it's close to how my therapist works with complex trauma...basically a more body-oriented approach and not so cognitive. She also works with attachment stuff.

As far as attachments patterns/styles I am highly avoidant. Avoidant to a sickeningly difficult degree. And when I try to get close to others, it switches to a disorganized pattern. I'm close, closer, and then I vanish... I know I've hurt or confused people this way, so it's hard to trust myself in relationships.

 

[DogwoodTree]

"Trying harder" is just exhausting. Because I don't follow through or I feel a bubble around myself even with others and we never get close. I can't somehow do it differently.

Yes, I feel like I'm trapped inside a glass cage. I've even had other people describe it to me as well, that this is what they sense from me. I've tried so hard to perfect my masks and make them look like what I think other people expect from me, so that other people will be comfortable with me and want to be with me. But it doesn't work that way. We joined a church a few years ago where they have a huge emphasis on people being authentic with each other and accepting each other for who we are...but as I tried to open up about my stuff...people just don't have a box for this reality. It doesn't make sense to them. Even the pastors, who know much of my story, they just don't have a clue how to relate to me. It seems they're expecting me to fit in one of a few particular boxes, and when I just don't fit, they don't know what to do, even though I've tried to fit.

But all my defenses are breaking down, and I just don't have the energy to keep pretending. So as I tried to be more authentic...my actions and words and struggles were, I guess, misinterpreted...people started acting very strange, like they just couldn't make sense of me. Only one woman at my church has kept reaching out in a way that is open to learning about who I really am. She's several years older than I am, and is struggling with a lot of junk in her own life, so not a lot of time for building a new friendship. But even when we do get together for lunch or whatever, there's still a lot of distance. I'm trying to bridge that gap, though.

I have had a few very good friends come and go and move for jobs. Turned out they also had early trauma or attachment issues,

I would really like to find someone who could be a "very good friend". I don't have a clue what it's like to just be "me" with someone. I don't trust anyone that much.

Have these people been a stabilizing influence for you, or are they people who are just very needy and will attach to anyone who gives them the time of day? My mom tends to attract people who are looking for a savior, and she likes feeling needed in that way. But then she never really gets "real" with these people, because she can't even admit to herself that she's not nearly-perfect. So then she's lonely because no one really knows her, and she thinks the solution is to spend lots and lots of time with my kids and any other family who will velcro themselves to her. We had to start limiting her time and access to our kids because she was just being too needy with them and sometimes would even panic when we told her we didn't want to get together at a particular time or whatever, especially if we didn't have a really good excuse for saying no. She's threatened to fire me for not being more open about spending time with her and trusting her more on stuff that has nothing to do with work.

I stick with an AA group I feel comfortable with and appreciate that I am very good in the colleague role...good at supporting others and also feeling valued.

I have a confession, and I'm not sure if you'll find this funny or be offended, so...I deeply apologize if it comes across offensively. It's not my intent to minimize your struggle at all. But there are times where I've actually wondered if it would be worth it to become an alcoholic. I've heard so many things about how tight AA groups can be. Ack...I've never typed that out loud...now it sounds crazy, sorry. It just seems like it might be worth it to be more broken...if it would help me find a place where I can belong as a broken person.

Do you have a therapist @DogwoodTree ? I don't know what your trauma history is, but if connection has been an issue forever, you might relate to Laurence Heller's book "Healing Developmental Trauma".

I went ahead and posted an intro thread, if it interests you...https://www.myptsd.com/threads/emerging-from-lurkdom-already-possible-triggers.54063/

Yes, I've been working with a T since the beginning of the year. He warned me ahead of time that complex trauma is not a specialty area of his, and he recommended a woman T. But I really preferred to work with a man. It seems crazy...even though I was directly abused by men, I'm more triggered by women. I think it's the way women were so over-sexualized around me (my sisters embraced the role of being in my step-dad's "harem"...), and how I saw women as being so incredibly weak. I watched my mom kowtowing to men throughout my childhood, and I see how much she struggles even now as a successful businesswoman to hold her own around men. I hate that weakness, and really struggle to identify as a woman. I don't want to be a man, either...seems I'd rather not have a gender. But being around women seems to highlight my failure to be a woman, so I'm more comfortable around men. And I don't trust women to be strong enough to handle anything especially difficult. I know that's wrong--women are designed to be very resilient and to handle difficulties that many men would wilt under (think about what women have endured over the centuries...think about how moms function with so little sleep when babies are little...even just childbirth...I've tried to think of lots of examples of women's inherent strength to help me respect femininity more).

Anyway, the book looks really good. I'll check it out--thanks.

I'm close, closer, and then I vanish... I know I've hurt or confused people this way, so it's hard to trust myself in relationships.

This resonates. I so desperately want connection, but it seems I do so much to undermine it. I've hurt and confused a lot of people, too. I keep reminding myself that these are issues in me and that the way to fix them is to take ownership of my junk and deal with it instead of feeling victimized that "people don't like me." They're just people. They can't fix me. But I haven't been able to fix myself, either, so where does that leave me? It's so frustrating and painfully lonely.