Sexual Assault I Think I Was Raped - But I'm Devastated That I'm Not "sure"

[Kefira]

My personal opinion going only on what I've read is that there is nothing to suggest that this guys a rapist.

You're entitled to your opinion. A couple things stand out for me:

Another time I fell asleep on his sofa drunk and when I woke up he was touching me. I pushed him away and he left.

At the very least this indicates that he is. An unconscious person, whether that is due to being asleep, being intoxicated, or being otherwise drugged, cannot consent. This one, even holding off on the other incidents, is pretty clear cut assault. With the second incident:

I told him I couldn't remember what had happened and asked him to tell me how it had happened.

The OP isn't as specific about whether or not she was unconscious, but regardless this was after a very clear refusal where he had stopped, and it sounds like she was not functional enough at this point to legally consent.

I think the fact that he pursued this line of manipulation:

This time he was saying things like "imagine what people will think of you, no one will think less of me but they will of you" and "what will your friends say".

Is also pretty telling, especially since it was important enough to him that she NOT tell anyone that he pursued the conversation twice. And that's ignoring the fact that from the information we have it sounds like he was actively trying to get her drunk.

Without those two HUGE factors, I might listen to a case for the guy just being a jerk who's really bad at body language and basic social ques. The fact that he did stop the times where she was able TO stop him, doesn't negate the fact that he continued to attempt to violate her whenever he had created the opportunity to do so and that he attempted to ensure she wouldn't speak to others and get their opinions.

 

[Kefira]

This idea that if a man and a woman get blind drunk, then HE has the ability to make a sound and informed decision about whether it's a good idea to have sex or not, and she has no ability whatsoever to make any decisions, is flawed, and simply makes women into victims and men into the person in control of the situation.

I don't see that expressed anywhere in this thread by anyone. Alcohol complicates things. But she also communicated pretty clearly that that wasn't an interaction that she wanted.

If a man came on here saying that his female friend got him drunk, manipulated the situation, and took advantage of him when he'd made it clear that he didn't want a sexual relationship with her I'd have exactly the same problem with the woman in question: that that is assault. I don't think the issue here is women being inherently cast as victims, I think the problem individuals who assault the people they are around regardless of their gender. And often do so with alcohol involved, because they know it will be more easily dismissed.

 

[RussH]

I push him off and run to the bathroom, slamming and locking the door behind me. I sink onto the floor crying hysterically

I don't see anywhere in this statement where she said no and he stopped. I see her resisting him, then running to a place of safety, the locked bathroom. There was no consent.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I know others will disagree with me here, but there is nothing in your story that suggests that he raped you.

I tend to agree.

why not? There was no consent here.It sounds like rape to me. Certainly plenty to suggest that it was...

How do you know that? The OP doesn't know that because she was drunk and willingly got drunk.

If she had said no every time she was sober, and he proceeded to get her blackout drunk, that's rape.

She knew he was getting her drinks. She even heard him ask to fill er up! Where is the personal responsibility in any of this? Not victim blaming, or even pointing fingers at the OP, but I do get tired of people who fail to keep themselves safe and then blame others for getting hurt. No, I'm not purging the perpetrator of all sin, but its like wearing the wrong color in known gang territory and screaming that its a free country, you have a right to wear whatever you want, wherever you want, and shouldn't have been shot. (Yup, recent gang shooting here in the USA where someone was wearing the wrong color in gang territory.) As much as we would like to think that society is going to keep us safe, it doesn't work like that. We owe it to ourselves to keep ourselves safe. We are the first line of defense in our own safety.

She was aware of the amount of alcohol she was drinking and she chose to drink it. Also, the bar tender topped 'them' meaning both the drinks up to the brim, so it's not that he's getting her drunk, it's that they are both getting blind drunk together.

Exactly.




I'm an abuse survivor, but at the same time I don't agree with potentially ruining a guy's life when the victim can't even remember what happened, and both parties got willingly drunk. That is, by reporting what he did as "rape".


I really don't understand why when a guy has drunken sex he is the automatic perpetrator while when a woman has drunken sex, she is the victim. Drunken sex is drunken sex. Given this scenario, if drunken sex means no consent is given, not only did he rape her, but she raped him. How's that for a mind f*ck? People need to take personal responsibility. Don't get black out drunk. Don't drink to the point of being unable to make a decision. Pounding back shots of GIN? We're not talking about a beer here. People may not be able to give consent when they're drunk, but when they made the decision to get drunk in the first place? Yep, I'd say that does indeed put some responsibility on their shoulders. No, I'm not victim blaming. Everyone is responsible for their own safety, and drinking even one beer lowers one's level of safety, like it or not.

 

[rightkindofme]

Well this is turning into some victim blaming. "Where is the personal responsibility?" The person who begins the sexual contact has an obligation to establish consent. Without doing so the person who is engaging in sexual contact is committing a crime. Being drunk next to someone isn't consent. I don't know the technical laws in Singapore but in the US having sex with someone who is too drunk to consent is rape, period.

Given that this happened multiple times with him consciously getting you drunk... yes he was trying to rape you. This is text book.

This article is about Canadian laws, which are similar to American laws. Link Removed

If someone is drunk... they are not able to consent. It's rape.

 

[rightkindofme]

Also: the fact that this girl repeatedly said she wasn't interested, she had a boyfriend (which is often a BS story women tell because it is the only way to keep a man off of you--but it was true in this case) and this "friend" repeatedly took her clothes off without her consent because she was too drunk to resist....

Yeah, he wanted to rape you. I'm sorry there are so many people in the world who will tell you it is your fault and you should take personal responsibility. That really sucks. It isn't your fault your friend hurt you.

 

[rightkindofme]

I'm taking this very personally, so this will probably be the last time I post. High emotions. I had a very similar experience with a friend coming over with his f@#king bottle of gin. He got me so drunk I passed out then had sex with me. I am very. very. very. very. sick of people saying, "Well... personal responsibility." My personal responsibility had included weeks of negotiating that I NEVER have unprotected sex. So he got me drunk and had sex with me without a condom.

Rapists know what they are doing when they get you that drunk.

 

[Chava]

. I don't think it was your fault or my fault either - but I also agree I that should (and have) changed my behaviour. I'm much more careful now about who I drink around because I want to be much more careful. Not because I think "society" is blaming me for what happened to me.

I have a long list of these kinds of experiences. You obviously said no the first time and don't remember the second, though could assume it was the same. The sobbing would be hard for me to know...were you raped or were you triggered by past experience?

I don't blame myself for some of these bad experiences I had. I've woken up to a guy on top of me, and passed out again...and several similar stories of fuzzy memory or not consenting but waking up and not knowing how I got where I was, or what happened. I went to weird places, easily disconnected from caring friends in favor of more alcohol or partying later into the night, let people get too close too fast. But I do recognize some of it as re-traumatization stuff. I had very poor boundaries and alcohol was a problem for me. Even when sober, I met a guy and agreed to go to his house and let him cook me dinner on the first date (no, that's not a good idea...now I know). We even talked about not believing that sex on the first date was a good idea. But we ended up kissing and then it went to far. I actually didn't say no but just numbed out. So I do that too. I had just become passive and sometimes partly dissociated. I just wasn't "there" so what was the difference. But after that I felt so terrible because I recognized I was really very afraid of my own boundaries and not knowing how to keep them.

Can't say I have an answer because now my boundaries are too thick. I could go out for lunch with a guy indefinitely. But I also don't think I've met a guy I'm interested in sleeping with. So, at least I avoid places where that could happen because I don't trust the situation.

This wasn't your fault and I hope this doesn't sound that way. It sounds like he pretty clearly took advantage of you and I'd personally not want more contact with him. But especially if you have any trauma history, I know talking about how some of this works can be really difficult because we can't blame ourselves and yet there is often a boundary piece to work on. I've had a very hard time with that.

 

[Meadowsweet]

There you go people, I've silenced myself, no room for anything but one view here and I don't fit here.

 

[RussH]

In spite of the many opinions stated here the facts remain.
The first time he attempted to have sex with you, you told him no. A second time you woke up with him touching you inappropriately and you told him to stop. The night in question you wanted to head back to the room, but he stated it was early, and wanted to keep partying. He then got the bartender to strengthen the drinks.

The next think you remember is waking up naked with him on top of you.
What we know is you were more than a little drunk, otherwise you would not have passed out.
You, given his past actions, did not exercise the best judgement.
You, based on your past comments, did not give consent.

What we don't know:
Did he drink as much as you, or just seem to?
Was he truly as drunk as you were? His actions would suggest otherwise.
Was it is plan to get you drunk and have sex with you with or without consent. We don't know, but I would suggest it is a reasonable conclusion.

Does his actions indicate prior planning to get you drunk and have sex with you? Yes.
Did he ignore your past clear statements of no? Yes, absolutely he did.
Does this make it rape? Yes. In my opinion this was a planned out rape by him, and that makes is a extremely form of low-life to me.

A question I have for you? When you wanted to call it a night, but he insisted the night was still early, why did you go along with him? Why did you let him keep feeding you drinks? I am not blaming you for anything by asking these questions, but you finding the answer to these questions might keep you from falling into a similar situation in the future.

I would suggest that you get counseling and recognize that you are a victim.
I would also suggest using this experience to help you make better choices

 

[Meadowsweet]

There aren't many opinions Russ, just the one that is allowed now. I think you have made the dominant point.

 

[RussH]

@Meadowsweet there are many options, and every point is valid; I am simply stating what we know, don't know, and how I read the circumstances, you may have an entirely different interpretation.

The important thing here is to recognize that the trauma is valid and Aliceinwonderland can use our support.