Relationship Do You Think They Get Misdirected Anger And Enjoy Time With Others More Than You?

[catlover26]

My Vet was in Vietnam and although not in combat he saw enough of the horrors and was exposed to Agent Orange. He is also a recovering Alcoholic so he has had many issues that he has and is still dealing with.

I really don't want to think he is a racist but the things he will say can sound like he is. We have had several discussions to clarify exactly what his views are about other races because at first it really bothered me. But still he will get angry and say some things when he is more in a depressed mood and use the N word even though he knows I hate that. I don't tell him anymore not to use it around me.

I think sometimes it can be other things bothering him. He worries about Obama and the direction our country is heading, etc. His thoughts about all of this are so irrational but I just listen and don't respond to it anymore.

Also since we have had a few conflicting discussions I was thinking that maybe it becomes easier for him to talk on the phone and spend some time with other people like the kids next door than with me. He says he just can't handle the tension. I go see him a few times a week. But he can seem really happier when the kids next door come over and we all play Scrabble or something. I guess since we are so close he can be himself with me which I know is good but that becomes so difficult.

 

[Deleted member 28812]

I think sometimes it can be other things bothering him. He worries about Obama and the direction our country is heading, etc. His thoughts about all of this are so irrational but I just listen and don't respond to it anymore.

I don't have much of an opinion about Obama, because he is not from my country and I don't know much about him. What I noticed however is that you say his political opinion is irrational. Well you don't say what his opinion actually is. Maybe it is totally irrational. I don't know.

I don't know the both of you but I think that this sounds disrespectful to me. To me it sounds like you see his political opinion as a result of his PTSD and to me this would feel hurtful if I was him. Do you think that could be the case?

 

[Deleted member 28812]

You say that he says things that sound racist while they aren't. What does he actually say?

 

[Justmehere]

How are his political views irrational? I know people of all colors who are not racists who do not agree with Obama and think the country is headed downhill. However, none of them would call him or other black people a n*gger. Unless they were black, but even most African Americans I hang out with don't use that word. It's kind of like calling someone a f*ggot.

I struggle with anger. Even misdirected anger. Negative transference can be one form of misdirected anger. This happens in therapy and in life outside of therapy for most people to some degree. Traumatic transference can especially be strong for some PTSD sufferers. For example, I hate my male abuser so therefore my male friend or therapist might be someone I'm more likely to vent anger at for something they do that reminds me of my male abuser, even if it is a non-harmful thing.

However, I don't go around saying all men are terrible or thinking all men are lesser than women or judging people based on being male or using anti-male derogatory language that is generally not accepted in my culture.

Doing that would be... I don't even know the word for it. gender-ism? (someone help me out here!) I would be a bigot for doing that.

I can have misdirected anger, but my anger never turns into putting people down based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc, nor do I use derogatory racist slurs, anti-gay slurs, anti-gender comments - you get the idea.

If he just doesn't like Obama for his policies, that isn't racism. Disagreement with someone's ideas who happens to be of another color isn't racism. A lot of people think that not supporting Obama's policies is racism, when it's actually just not liking him for his ideas.

But, if he is using anti-race slurs... that's kind of different. That's an insult. Someone who insults people based on the color of their skin, not their ideas, in a moment of calmness or in a moment of rage - is someone who holds views that one race is lesser than another. That is racism.

I think it's a good boundary to set, and KEEP, that he should not say anti-race slurs around you or true racist comments. You can't change him, but you can change you. Perhaps you could make it clear that you will not be around him when he uses that language - and then do it. He will learn that using that language is hurtful and creates distance and barriers to relationship. Or he won't learn. Either way, you won't be silently enabling him to have an audience to listen to him putting down people based on the color of their skin.

 

[catlover26]

How are his political views irrational? I know people of all colors who are not racists who do not ag...

I know I am going to have to mention again about using the N word around me. All of this started stirring up because of the recent police shootings of the blacks and the aftermath of it all. He was mad at the blacks involved in the rioting but really mad at Obama for getting involved and feels he is doing more to divide the races instead of unite them.

Yes it is complicated and irrational. He believes there is going to be a race war in America and this is the beginning of it. You have to understand some it, if not a lot of it is his age. Not giving him an excuse. He is 71, 16 yrs older than me. So along with his ptsd and depression his thinking can become very illogical. I use to respond to his comments but now I don't.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I don't understand much of JMH's reply. I *think* the OP used paragraphs in order to separate thoughts, but JMH is running them all together, assuming that the OP is saying something along the lines of his political views make him racist against Obama?

That is....

He is racist. He uses the N word. Unacceptable to me. I dated a guy who used the N word and we had WORDS! Of course he denied being racist, but don't most racist people deny that they are racist? (Save Neo-Nazis and skinheads, right?) The same guy says to me just yesterday that the confederate flag isn't a big deal. (i.e. he just doesn't "get it".) I am a sensitive soul and can't tolerate such hate in someone, and that's a big reason why I can't be close to this guy.

Separate thought.....

He has irrational political thoughts. I get this. Many people have irrational political thoughts. Its quite a spectator sport to watch all of these people get in a tizzy when they fear things like the government slaughtering first born children. (Out there example, but in reality, not that far off from what these people believe.)

 

[Justmehere]

I was trying to communicate something similar what you communicated much better @itsKismet! :)

 

[catlover26]

I don't understand much of JMH's reply. I *think* the OP used paragraphs in order to separate thoughts...

See that is his biggest problem. He thinks America is doomed. No really he will tell me he KNOWS we are. And it is so personal for him because he is so patriotic, fought in Vietnam and loves this country. So I think that fuels all of his frustration and anger towards others because he says no one is trying to stop Obama. Sometimes he will stop himself from talking about it. But sometimes I will just listen because I know any what I think are rational responses do not make sense to him.

He has a psychiatrist and counselor he goes to on a regular basis but like many others he doesn't trust them at the VA to talk to about how he really is feeling. So he trusts me and can talk to me.

 

[catlover26]

I have started going to Al-Anon to find peace within myself because my ex husband was a workaholic. I believe he was an Alcoholic that just didn't drink. And now I also am dealing with my Vet that has been through AA himself but is not always practicing what it taught him.

Maybe when I tell him I am going to Al-Anon we will have some discussions and he can find his inner peace again. Our relationship can be strained at times. I have come to realize it could turn into more of a friendship/companion relationship because he doesn't need to isolate himself like he used to. We are very close and he has helped me through some very difficult times. We met in a very unusual way and I believe it was not by accident.

 

[Sighs]

Many years ago I saw a clip of Jerry Springer (yes - I know but keep reading) talking about his parents. They were very elderly but still living in their own home in the US. In the garage was a car which they hadn't driven in 10 years. Jerry tried to convince them to sell the car. He pointed out that they weren't really physically well enough to drive it anyway. His father got very upset and eventually said "We have to have the car. What if we need to pack our things suddenly and go?". They were Jews who had escaped Europe just in front of the Nazi advance by packing up their things and going - repeatedly. Jerry told his father he was being ridiculous - that would never happen in the US. His father just looked at him and said "That's what we thought in Europe."

What you have to understand is that things which seem "paranoid" or "irrational" to someone who has never experienced them seem absolutely reasonable to someone who has witnessed that kind of behaviour. And it is extremely difficult for vets to see the country they love moving in a direction they don't agree with. My vet will often look up from the news and say to me "My mates died for this???"

You don't have to agree with him, but at his age he is not going to change. IMHO you either break up with him or ignore it.

 

[Sweetpea76]

He has a psychiatrist and counselor he goes to on a regular basis but like many others he doesn't trust them at the VA to talk to about how he really is feeling. So he trusts me and can talk to me.

My vet jokes that I am his back up therapist. He hates his VA therapist, and he hasn't been able to see her for months. He tends to tell me everything that is running though his mind, and I've learned to just be an ear. That's all he really wants... to vent and get it out. He knows my bleeding heart political leanings... so he doesn't have to hear them if he is venting. I don't have to agree with him to listen.

 

[joeylittle]

Yes it is complicated and irrational. He believes there is going to be a race war in America and this is the beginning of it.

Honestly, he is not alone in this belief (I don't think), and I would not call it irrational. I think it's tilting towards a worst-case scenario - on the other hand, what were the Charleston shootings if not a kind of act of war?

He thinks America is doomed. No really he will tell me he KNOWS we are. And it is so personal for him because he is so patriotic, fought in Vietnam and loves this country. So I think that fuels all of his frustration and anger towards others because he says no one is trying to stop Obama. Sometimes he will stop himself from talking about it. But sometimes I will just listen because I know any what I think are rational responses do not make sense to him.

He sounds like a lot of people I know, to be honest.

You might be confusing his passion/fervor with irrationality. When people really believe in their point of view, they can argue it so aggressively that it seems somehow driven by something other than logic and facts - but that doesn't mean their position is irrational, it means that they are really worked up about their position, and do not feel like engaging in 'civilized debate' about it.

Now, calling a black person a N*****? Well, that's just seriously racist. Is he interested in contributing to the race war, or would he like to see us avoid it? If he thinks we need a race war in order for whites to take back America - then I'd say (personally) that he's wrong and an asshole - but that's only my opinion.