Sufferer I'm 64y.o. And Finally Addressing My Ptsd Thru Emdr.

[Marymickaela]

Evan,

The thing about my repressed memory is it happened during an acupuncture treatment. I went 3 days that week. Session 1 was just very very relaxing. Session 2 was amazing. I was very relaxed and doing visualization and relaxation techniques. My brain went into something similar to hyper drive and suddenly everything became crystal clear. I remembered my childhood home in minute details, colors were crystal clear. It was just an amazing experience and I couldn't wait to get to my therapy appointment to describe the wonderful experience. 3rd session I wanted to recreate the 2nd one so after the dr. put the needles in I immediately started to relax and use my visualization, excited to experience that 2nd session. Instead I suddenly found myself in the garage next to our house, being held against my will and being gang raped. My heart started pounding out of my chest in terror and I felt utterly helpless unable to escape. I laid on that table sobbing, tears running down my face and in my mind begging someone to help me. Totally confused as I had no memory of this attack ever happening to me. I had to lay on that table for over 30 min, until the dr. returned to remove the needles. After that I slowly returned to normal only to find myself being startled again, heart pounding in terror when I found myself becoming very relaxed, such as taking a bath. I was doing hypnosis to lose weight and loved getting settled in the lounge chair, putting on the head phones and listen to the relaxation tape. I'd get to a certain point in relaxation when again I'd be startled in terror, the same memory returning. It went on for maybe 2 weeks until it slowly faded from my memory. I've asked 2 EMDR therapists and two regular ones if they thought it had happened and they said "yes". I started acupuncture for a painful shoulder last week and asked her what she thought. She was 100% sure it happened saying my brain had become so relaxed during the acupuncture treatment it opened up a pathway for the memory to return. Now, I don't dwell too much on it and only remember having that memory experience. It completely baffles me how something like this could have happened, yet I have no memory of it. I was told it was my mind's way of protecting me from something so traumatic.

After recently finding out my brother had no recollection of my father choking him I started accepting that maybe it did happen to me, but I still have no real recollection of it. I do remember that around age 7 I started having some anxiety issues such as constantly twitching my nose. My mom was always slapping me to stop, but I couldn't. I think someone finally told her to leave me alone and it finally passed. I also have very little memories of grade school after 1st grade. I remember loving 1st grade, but after that I draw a blank.

I don't know if I'll every really know for sure, except I'm starting EMDR this Thursday so who knows if I can ever recover the memory or if it would serve any purpose to do so.

Mary

 

[Ivan the Elder]

Considering your age and the long time span I have some doubt that it is real. It is the sort of false memory that the mind may produce, especially in cases of childhood abuse. If it were real I doubt that your mind would have been able to totally block it for this long and then suddenly recall everything in such detail. Confabulation is far more likely. I even suspect it in some of my memories and I have a very special form of memory. I have what is called "autobiographical" memory. Mine is quite detailed although not to the point of remembering exact dates and time.

Essentially I remember all the days of my life, pretty much in sequence. This includes remembering things that are in no way a special event, such as walking into the kitchen to take out a container of milk in August of 1968 or taking a regular shower in that same rooming house, many times. This memory goes back to under age 1. I have some memories that have been somewhat blocked which are only partly retrievable but they are not the memories of abuse, as far as I can tell. I could well be wrong. My memories go to the level of detail of remembering the set-up of chess pieces in games I played to the writing on the milk container and which direction it faced in the refrigerator. I also remember tastes and aromas very accurately as well as numbers to as many digits as I wish. I know the value of pi to twenty digits and remember hundreds of phone numbers.

Having such a good memory is very much a curse in dealing with PTSD. My ex wife has also convinced all of our former friends that I am the "Bad Guy" so I am trying to deal with PTSD without support from anyone but a counsellor I see once per week. The separation was her idea with no notice or discussion at all. Something happened to her in February this year that appears to have caused a full set of false memories going back at least two years. She is now certain that every event since two years ago has been exceedingly negative, including both Christmases. It makes no sense at all based on our pictures and e-mails but that doesn't change her mind in the slightest. It may have been a "silent stroke" which is a known cause and she has higher than normal stroke risk.

Considering the amount of brain damage I now have from three strokes and traumatic brain injury it is remarkable that my memory still seems untouched. My brain damage manifests as axonal disconnection syndrome, primarily disconnection of the left and right hemispheres of my brain and poor connection to Broca's Area, where mainly nouns are stored.

I did have one come back recently. My memories tend to be like movies, not just a single frame as in so called "photographic memory" When my father broke my shoulder he came into my room where I was sitting in my crib. I had shit my pants. He picked me up and held me in front of him, then noticed my pants were full. He shook me violently and then threw me across the crib to the far corner. My shoulders struck the crib end and one side on the railing. Strangely, I do not recall pain. I then sat there crying loudly for quite some time as he left the room. It goes on, as do all my memories of abuse.

The memory that recently came back when I was imprisoned at the psych ward was from a couple of years later when I was four. A cat had just had kittens and was feeding them in her sleeping box under the end of the fold down kitchen table. My father and mother were in the kitchen. I walked in, went to the cat sleeper and took out one of the tiny kittens. I then threw the kitten as high as I could straight up. It fell back to the floor in front of me and was badly injured. I assume it died but did not see that. I now suspect I was trying to see what can happen to a baby when you throw it hard. My father yelled at me but did not touch me. All abuse took place when my mother was not in sight.

I cannot be certain that this memory is real. It certainly seems like it but the idea of me abusing a tiny kitten in this way does not fit my own self image and never has. I have never to my knowledge ever abused anyone or any creature excepting in this memory. It does not fit well. Other parts of my childhood memories returned during the three weeks at the psych ward. None are nice. That includes a nightmare that I haven't had since I was a very young child. It was bad enough that I screamed in my sleep loud enough to wake other people in other rooms. I normally never talk in my sleep, let alone scream.

I would stay away from attempts to recover memories. That is fertile ground for confabulation, the generation of false memories, most especially negative ones. That has been very well proven in past studies of child abuse and memories. You could end up with what seems to be an absolutely true memory that is actually false.

 

[Marymickaela]

Considering your age and the long time span I have some doubt that it is real. It is the sort of false memo...

My acupuncturist told me last week that the average age of remembering repressed memories is when a person is in their 40's. I was 55 when this memory came to me. The only reason I believe it may have happened is the fact I was in a very relaxed happy mood expecting to experience a similar event like the previous one. I was happy, very relaxed, and in a very deep state of relaxation. Not trying to remember anything. It just happened and the terror I felt was so intense tears were streaming down my face as I laid there sobbing. I don't wish to really remember it, and there's nobody around to verify the truth. I actually had put it completely out of my memory until about 2 years ago when some college football players violated this girl. The girl had no recollection of it, but the boys stupidly had taken videos of the incident, were prosecuted and sent to prison. It reminded me of my memory (which I really didn't/don't remember, and still have no real memory of it ever happening. No offense, but I tend to trust my therapist's opinion, and esp. that of 5 different ones. The one I just started seeing the end of April that I'll be doing EMDR with is a trauma specialist.

 

[Ivan the Elder]

All I can say is that many false memories are very believable to more than the person that has them. It is a very difficult problem for psychiatrists to deal with. There are frequently no methods to verify the truthfulness of such memories. They are sometimes fantastic or illogical but not always. They can seem very possible but still are false. It is a huge problem in the field and has been for many years. Quite some years ago it resulted in a lot of people being charged with sexual abuse of children. It was eventually discovered that the memories of the children had been unintentionally manipulated.

At any rate, it is something to consider. As far as I know there are no "foolproof" tests to determine if memories such as yours are real or not unless physical evidence is available. I should point out that I am not a doctor but I studied psychology a long time ago at UC Berkeley. I am 65 and have spent much of my life studying medicine as a sort of hobby. It runs in my family. I have ancestors that were high level doctors and nurses, I am trained as a combat medic and have other medical training. I have taught young people with autism and aspergers as well as fetal alcohol syndrome. Two of my grandchildren are high level paramedics, one is a field surgeon. I'm not sure why medicine plays such a big role in my family tree but it does.

 

[Marymickaela]

All I can say is that many false memories are very believable to more than the person that has them. It is...

The only reason I believe this may have happened is because I was having acupuncture treatments, which opens up the "chi" pathways in one's body. I was in no way trying to remember this, in fact, just the opposite, remember a wonderful happy memory from the previous session. I don't think it would be to my benefit to find out for sure and even when I think about it I have no feelings one way or another. Since I'm just stating EMDR treatment I have to choose a memory to use tomorrow and think I'm going with a memory when I was 12. I was standing in the kitchen watching in horror as my dad in a fit of rage was going after my mom. He eventually shoved her down onto the couch and proceeded to take his work boot, bring his foot back and kick her so hard I could hear her rib bones breaking. He left her lying there and left with my two brothers to stay in a hotel while I stayed at home caring for my mom for 3 days. She had me call a friend who took us to the doctor and I remember standing there watching as my mom told the doctor it had been an accident when he asked how it happened. I cared for her all by myself for 3 days. My dad came home and waited in the car while my brothers came in to get clean clothes. My mother called me into the bedroom and begged and pleaded with me to go out to the car and ask my dad to come home. Without emotion I said "no, I don't want him to come home, I don't want him here". She continued grabbing my arm with the begging becoming more and more intense. I continued to say no before finally giving up and agreeing. I walked out to the carport and to his window. He rolled the window down and in an emotionless voice I said "she wants you to come home". And he did. So tomorrow that's what I've decided to work on. that memory. I feel no emotional about it and know there has to be some. I'm thinking about calling my two brothers and asking them what they remember as they would have different memories since they left with my dad. I don't even remember where they were in the house when the incident took place, only that I was standing in the kitchen watching it happen and moaning with my hands over my ears when I heard the bones break..

 

[Ivan the Elder]

That is certainly a bad memory. Back in those days doctors didn't ask many questions in such a circumstance. I do hope you can achieve some relief from it.

I also have some memories I wish I could forget, both very old and recent. At times if I could just buy a pill that would erase the last year or so I would pay whatever I have to do that. There are no selective "memory erasers" unfortunately. I was even considering electroshock but my very good psychiatrist talked me out of it. He is a forensic psychiatrist and so is very highly trained and experienced. He also prefers to work without drugs as much as possible, pretty uncommon in the psychiatric field. I consider drugs to be just a way to hide symptoms, they are not a cure. Many have numerous very bad side effects, especially in me.

I am super sensitive to most drugs, especially anything that has any trace of stimulant action. I almost died twice when given something with epinephrine in it, once in combination with a dental pain killer when I went out for over five minutes and another time with something similar for an injury. That second time my heart and breathing stopped for a while according to the hospital record. I have had a traumatic life, physically and mentally. I have come close to dying about six times altogether and have been threatened various ways many more times.

I do find it interesting that you are finally doing something about your past trauma at your age, as am I. I never guessed that I was probably suffering from low level PTSD for a good part of my life. I don't know why I have missed it, I spent a great amount of time researching my episodes of severe depression. I didn't just have the bipolar like syndromes, I have also had serious clinical depression that went on for months and longer more than once. That has been going on over the last 25 or so years. In some ways I cannot blame my ex wife for leaving me although in very recent times I have been much better.

I suspect she may have suffered a silent stroke that has resulted in a sudden creation of false memories. She changed drastically overnight into a personality I could not even recognize. That is something that can happen and she has a highly elevated risk for stroke, about ten times normal. I sure wish I could convince her to at least have an MRI but she absolutely refuses to consider the idea. It is no longer my "job" to try and look after her so I guess I must try to forget about it. There is zero chance that we will reconcile. She overnight changed from the woman I loved (she still loved me too, we exchanged valentines two days earlier) and became "The Bitch From Hell". It was unbelievable and I still find it very hard to grasp.

 

[shell]

I think the mind is an amazing thing, that sometimes things can be shut out and can come back to haunt us when we least expect it.

I had a memory come back of being raped while I slept at a friend house, that I never knew happened 30 years earlier, even though I knew physically something had because I could feel it had, and I thought I had fought the person off, so in my head it never happened, because I couldn't recall the actual rape the next day. I hid it and never spoke of it when I was a teenager, because I was ashamed of what he was doing when I woke up, I was confused at the time on the next day as what I could feel in my body didn't match my recollection. .

As an adult It was only after I was so suicidal thinking I was going crazy that I spoke to my brother that I thought I had been raped as a child, he blurted out the same persons name I had been thinking it was, and said he at the time always believed I was raped and told me all the strange things I said and did at the time. Maybe as I was already being abused it was too much for me to take. Much of what came back to me I was able to verify with my brother and that friend.

There are people with medical records of being raped, who years later can not recall it. All of my therapists believe it happened, it is me while accepting most likely it happened, who struggles at times, mostly I can accept it.

I was sexually assaulted a couple of years ago in America on holidays and now can barely recall most of what happened, although I had a suicidal reaction and was seeing blood and strange images in my head as I flipped out, because it was too much for me to handle, it is my way of coping. It is my reaction to it that is clear in my mind, not the event itself.

My aunt, uncle and brother witnessed many violent things happened to me most of which I have little recall, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. My body, my constant fear, and the knowledge of how it was as a child, are there along with the nightmares, constant anxiety, and a few really bad memories . I have only several detailed memories of 18 years of constant physical and emotional abuse, but snippets come from time to time of how it was, or the emotions if I start to think about it.

Yes there are false memories, but there are very real memories as well. Someone gave me some really good advice on this site regarding all my doubt, that no matter what whether real or false, I still needed to process how I felt about it.

It was true, the more I resisted, the more it persisted until before two years had past and my feelings, thought and reactions were running my life, and I sunk into a really deep depression. Running away saying it's false doesn't take away the fear, emotions and the reliving of it, facing it, processing it can help to find some resolution.

 

[Marymickaela]

About the incident where I witnessed my dad choking my older brother and almost killing him. My brother has no recollection of this ever happening although he was probably 18 or 19yo when it happened. Thinking about it I must have been around 17. I spoke to my 5 years younger brother yesterday and he doesn't have a lot of the memories I do, but he definitely remembers the incident of my dad choking my brother the same way I do. So that made me feel validated. It's just weird that my older brother (who it happened too) has no memory of it. My younger brother doesn't really remember my memory of my dad kicking my mom, breaking her ribs and staying at the hotel for 3 days, but he was much younger and could have been either in his room or outside, so he was no help with that. He does remember when I was in 8th grade my mom was gone for 2 weeks. We never knew where and for some reason I always had the feeling she had a nervous breakdown. She was gone so I fixed the entire Thanksgiving dinner for my dad and two brothers all by myself. The turkey, stuffing the bird, mashed potatoes, cranberries, the works. We all sat down and had dinner and not one of them said "thank you" to me. I was so hurt as I was terribly proud of myself. They just took it for granted. He does remember that dinner thou. My older brother is out of town but I plan to speak to him tomorrow about some of my memories. He's more likely to remember things.

I am nervous about today's EMDR session.

 

[Ivan the Elder]

I hope your session today goes well. It is a process I am not familiar with so I cannot comment on that. I am interested to hear what you think of it.

 

[Ivan the Elder]

I have been doing some more research into false memories and I have found something very interesting. I suggest you read this. It is directly applicable to both of us. I do not yet have the ability to post direct links so this is an image of the link. You will have to type it in your browser address bar.

 

[hodge]

Welcome, Marymickaela. I am also in my older years, going on 52, and I didn't get PTSD until I was in my early 40s. I have always remembered the things that happened to me, but I shoved them away and focused on work most of my life, figured I was tough enough to put them behind me. Finally, I ran out of "go juice", everything started to trigger me (though I didn't use those words or really understand at that point), I started getting flashbacks, which really freaked me out, finally went to a therapist because I didn't have a clue what was wrong with me and was diagnosed. She told me that one can usually only keep stuff behind them for a limited time, then they come back to kick you in the a$$. That's what happened to me.

How did your EMDR session go?

 

[Marymickaela]

The EMDR session didn't go as planned, but was good. I gave her my list of 3 Targets and said I thought we could use the one I discussed here on this forum. I than gave her a quick update on what's going on and said I had to see my dentist after our appt. and was very upset with him as he will never admit to being wrong. She said "why don’t we do our session on my difficulty with CONFRONTATIONS". I said sure as I had gotten myself pretty worked talking about dealing with this dentist. So the form of EMDR she uses is Tapping or listening to tones. I like listening to the tones so put my headphones on and I would slowly hear the tone in my R ear and then my L. Before we started I did tell her about what I had been planning to discuss.

She then asked me to think of a time I had difficulty confronting someone. Of course the 1st one to come up was my dentist. We discussed that for a minute or so. She then turned the tones on again and I started thinking of many different times, talk about it, listen to the tones, on and on. I told her about when I had been hospitalized back in 2004. I was treated badly, nobody would listen to me, I was talked down to,

An incident that happened while inpatient. I was being detoxed off of Vicodin and Klonopin. On New Year’s Eve day I had been doing so well the only staff doctor they had left no orders in case my pain returned. Well by that evening I was in so much pain it was unbearable. I begged and begged the staff for something, but was treated as if I was drug seeking and totally ignored. They said they had put a call in to the doctor, but it was New Year’s Eve and he never returned the call. All night I cried and begged, threw a temper tantrum (really not like me) telling the staff that I was taking all their names and would be reporting them as I knew the CEO of the hospital. (I did as I worked for our local Mental Health Board) They ignored them. In my room I made a rope during the night out of my PJ’s waist cord. (Yes, I was suicidal, but did they take the cord out of my clothes? No!) I cried and cried thinking I could hang myself, but really didn’t want to die. I just wanted relief from the pain.

Finally around 4:30am the night nurse who had ignored me all night asked me, as I was walking down the hallway back to my room, still sobbing,” how I was doing?” I replied “horrible” and in a stupor said “I’m going to kill myself”. I walked into my room and took the rope I had made out of the drawer, sat down on the bed and holding that rope in a grip I sobbed. A minute later in walks the nurse, comes over and says in a really kind voice “Mary, you know I have to take that.” I let her pull it out of my hand and felt onto the bed. A few minutes later she returned and asked me if my pain was any better? I quietly replied “no”. She said “I’m going to call the doctor”. All of a sudden she cared. All I had to say was I was going to kill myself and suddenly they cared. They kept walking past my room every 5 min. to check on me. The nurse returned and said the doctor had ordered a pain med, but I had to come to the quiet room so they could monitor me. I don’t know what they gave me, but it helped my pain so much. That day they were falling all over themselves to help me, even brought in a pain specialist. However, when the asshole doctor came in I looked at him and said “I wouldn’t have hung myself” and he replied “no, you would have taken a drug overdose”.

This doctor at discharge said to me that he thought I would be back. Once I knew he couldn’t keep me locked up anymore, for some reason I felt able to tell this doctor off and replied “no, I will never be back and YOU will never see me again”. Looking a little shocked at my statement he said “well I could be wrong, you could be that one in a million”. I was dumbfounded that a doctor would speak to a patient like that. After I was discharged I was transitioned into their partial program and filed a complaint against this doctor. The CEO's Second in Command, who I knew from her attending meetings at our office, and the "Head of the Psych Dept." met with me and listened to my complaints and asked me if I'd like the doctor to apologize to me. I remember my heart started pounding at the very thought of it and quickly said "no".

I told my therapist this and a lot more, so much that our session was 1 hour and 15 min. She didn’t want to stop me. I never cried while we did the EMDR, but when we were done I could feel myself dissociating a lot, but told her I thought I’d be ok, that I’d sit in my car for a while until I was ok to drive.

I asked her how I should confront my dentist and she said that it was the child me that had problems with confrontations so the adult me had to stand up for her. I held my ground with the dentist and he checked my guard and said it would work the way it was, but knew I wouldn’t be happy with it that way so they will fix it. Yeah! Score one for me!

So it was a good session. Don’t know if next week we’ll continue along these same lines, but guess I’ll see.