Confused And Torn Over 12-step Involvement

[Chava]

First I'll say that AA saved my life many years ago. I'm sure of this. I was completely disconnected but found it easier to feel comfortable around people in AA. I found hope through them and the idea that I could live sober and not the hell I was living (I was drinking to the point of alcoholic poisoning regularly and in and out of several treatment centers). Over-all I'd say I benefitted most from the community support and keeping the commitment to sobriety in mind. AA gave me a lot of hope and stability that way.

The higher power stuff has always been a struggle (don't worry, I know I'm not God). And I've run into trouble with the inventory steps, like where a sponsor tried to find "my part" in an abuse situation from childhood (it was my lightest example...I think I was testing her, and her response made me shut down for years). With all of this I feel MUCH SAFER just working with a trauma therapist. I think I found a sponsor who can be flexible, yet she started using some of the same old irritating AA language, suggesting I think I'm "terminally unique." No, I'm not. I just don't think my every problem can be solved by the 12-steps. I'm very confused about where my problems overlap. I want to leave the trauma stuff for my therapist. But I'm getting the feeling from my new sponsor that I think I'm "unique" or that I'm resisting or trying to do it my way. I'm honestly trying to protect myself from further chaos...that's all.

Has anyone been able to manage working with a therapist and a sponsor? I think I'd rather just keep going to meetings. I know that's not really doing the program, but I like the support. Also, I did the steps years ago and was able to made amends to places I had shoplifted from, which felt very good to do. The spirituality aspect is important, but I also feel like that boils down to my ability to work on the themes of connection I'm working on in therapy. I might be able to just tell this sponsor it isn't good timing for me...that I will focus on therapy but use meetings for support too.

I'm also reminding myself that I spent many years without a sponsor and without drinking. It's not an all-or-nothing situation. I'm also not terminally unique. I just don't trust the program of AA to help me with the trauma stuff and if I'm going to be made to feel selfish, prideful, or resistant for not dumping everything on my sponsor, I'll just not do the sponsor thing. I also refuse to rehash abuse stuff with a sponsor (I've shared that with my therapist)...and even if I would, I refuse to look for "my part" in it (like it's not even my fault for not telling anyone).

 

[Justmehere]

I have gone to AA-style meetings for another kind of problem other than alcohol, and I have gone to Al-anon. I have never done the 12 step process, not even for Al-anon, because the idea of being sponsored by someone 1 on 1 freaked me out way too much. I know some people have benefited greatly from doing the 12 steps with a sponsor. It's not for me.

I do know someone who went to a group that did the 12 steps as a group, with a trained therapist leading the group. No individuals sponsoring other individuals. I think that is a good option too.

I think its very ok to "just" go to meetings. It's a huge thing to do on it's own. For me, going to meetings when things are rough, it helps me know I'm not alone, and it's a place of accountability at my own choosing. It helps me break through denial, and be braver in therapy.

But the 12 steps 1 on 1 with a not-trauma-trained sponsor? That freaks me out too.

 

[Kefira]

I think its very ok to "just" go to meetings. It's a huge thing to do on it's own. For me, going to meetings when things are rough, it helps me know I'm not alone

I've started to go to meetings partly for the community sense and the group I've found at least is very non-judgmental. It's a meeting that's open to any type of 12 step recovery. I'm open about the fact that I have PTSD and that I'm there for support and community but that I'm not strictly a 12 step-er (I'm not an addict so anything I'd label myself as 12 step for would be a PTSD symptom). Because I practice mindfulness and my recovery is largely spiritually based my language is similar even if some of my philosophies are different, and at least this group has been welcoming and encouraged me to continue to attend.

In this particular group, some people have sponsors from outside of the group in other single vein 12 step programs, some people have no sponsor, and some request someone in the group (even of a different program outside) to sponsor them. I'm by no means an expert but I think for many people the most important thing is the community, the sense of connection, the ability to speak freely without judgement, and the personal accountability attending meetings gives. If a sponsor doesn't feel right for you right now, I say keep working through therapy and go to meetings as your recharge and connection if it feels right to you.

 

[Chava]

Thanks @Justmehere and @Kefira . The steps were helpful when I was a real newcomer. My inventory stuff felt pretty black and white (I stole from so many shops, paid them back if they let me, etc). Now the "fears" and "sex" categories don't feel like sponsor-sponsee material. I withheld a lot of info initially and also didn't even feel my fears newly in sobriety...just starved and chain-smoked them away.

But I think for a newcomer, or someone with less trauma or need for therapy, that sponsor contact can be helpful. My first sponsor was really awesome. But for many years I've either had bad, semi-degrading experiences, or have just gone without a sponsor. I saw myself as a strong member for a long time....the one thing I regret is that I can't really sponsor anyone else and help them that way if I don't have a sponsor myself (I honestly wouldn't know what to do). I don't want to be a half-assed member who just takes and doesn't give. But just being at meetings helps me, and I know I've helped others by just being at meetings for them too.

What I wish they'd do is update the Big Book again to add some info on working with mental illness, trauma, childhood stuff, etc. Some sponsors are good at knowing when to suggest therapy or knowing what to leave for therapy. I'm afraid my new sponsor already sees me as resisting and believing I'm "terminally unique" and I'm already turned off....not because I think I'm special but because I see my alcoholism as part of a bigger issue and can't fit it all into being healed through the 12-steps. I got sober, but managed to keep starving and self-destructing in other ways. Now I'm finally getting a handle on all of that and feel inclined to trust my therapist first.

(there aren't other group support options for sobriety where I'm at, pretty rural)

 

[Chava]

I don't want to change the steps, I just need flexible interpretation and allowance for leaving some stuff to therapy....and also not looking for my part in any abuse. If I can't find this type of sponsor, f*ck it. This was interesting:

"I am convinced that AA's founding fathers simply weren't aware of the issues which affect survivors because there may have been no abuse/trauma survivors among the demographic sample of alcoholics whose experience the AA program was based on. In fact, the structure of the program seems to indicate that the early AAs were perpetrators of harm more often than they were victims of it. Hence the need for a moral inventory. Abuse survivors represent the opposite end of the spectrum, namely, they are on the receiving end of someone else's immorality! I find it most inappropriate that a thorough and fearless moral inventory is the "treatment" for both groups!" Link Removed

AA has been important to me but I'm super mixed up right now (have been for years, actually, but stayed sober for many years without steps or sponsor work). I don't know if I can do all that self-faulting language right now. But I do take personal responsibility for staying sober, yes.

 

[Friday]

Has anyone been able to manage working with a therapist and a sponsor?

My sponsor was a licensed clinical MSW. :D

She not only had her own team (medication management through her psychiatrist, & 2 counselors: 1 for her own mental health issues; eating disorder & bipolar disorder; & 1 as a touchstone counselor. Most counselors see their own counselor to keep even keeled as they provide therapy for others), in addition to her own sponsor.

... So it's not surprising... She strongly recommended that all of her sponcees see a therapist for at least the first 2 years in the program, (or psychologist / MSW & prescribing physician if meds were recommended), and longer if needed wanted. Not her. Her job as a sponsor was program stuff. It's an entirely different model, the boundaries are exceptionally different.

She's not only one of my favorite (accidental*) counselors ever... <3 :inlove: <3..., but has been a great friend for more than 10 years. She was my sponsor, my mentor, and later my friend, but never my therapist. I saw a therapist in addition to seeing her & going to meetings. It was a really, really good combination; professional & peer-to-peer.

* Accidental defined as exactly the right person, at exactly the right time, who came into my life & helped me sort it out.

 

[Chava]

You're a lucky one @FridayJones !! Did you put much trauma stuff in your inventory? Was it the expectation or did you feel more comfortable with it because you also trusted your sponsor with it because of her professional background?

 

[Friday]

ETA in advance... LOL, this is what I get for splitting my posts, and not reading the Qs posted in the meantime!!! I may just switch the order of this one and the one below it :p Comes out sounding a bit awkward with the Q right above.

***

I am convinced that AA's founding fathers simply weren't aware of the issues which affect survivors because there may have been no abuse/trauma survivors among the demographic sample of alcoholics whose experience the AA program was based on. In

Bullshit. The program was founded in 1935. A huge percentage had fought in WWI, many in fact picked up their drinking habit in Europe, and then the "roaring 20s" were pretty much a PTSD Tailspin on an international level. The Great Depression causing even more BigT Trauma. I haven't read the BB in years & years and I still remember those details. Whoever wrote that has either never read the stories in the back of the book where The Great War is referenced in passing more than a few times, or has absolutely no understanding of history. I lean towards both, because there is clear language showing severe childhood abuse, rape, etc. using the language of the day. "Father was cruel man" (physical abuse), being "badly used" (CSA or marital rape), etc... In addition to the whole years spent in a hugely bloody war.

In fact, the structure of the program seems to indicate that the early AAs were perpetrators of harm more often than they were victims of it. Hence the need for a moral inventory.

Hello, combatPTSD ((WWI)). Hello, mean drunks. Hello, DWIs & car accidents, STDs, extramarital affairs, drinking the rent money, and 1,001 ways alcoholics hurt themselves and others with their drinking.

Abuse survivors represent the opposite end of the spectrum, namely, they are on the receiving end of someone else's immorality! I find it most inappropriate that a thorough and fearless moral inventory is the "treatment" for both groups!"

i disagree, completely. Sounds like the author had some victim-blaming twat as a sponsor, too @Chava... But also has their own head so far up their ass the little bump on their throat is their nose... To espouse the idea that once being a victim, a person can do no wrong, themselves.

((Again, very lucky in my own sponsor, she didn't let me pull nonsense either way. I have a strong tendency to blame myself for things outside of my control... And where those items popped? She nipped them hard and fast. For example "abandoning" my abusive boyfriend. Ha. That one ended up entirely rewritten. I didn't hurt *him* by leaving. And a whole lot of other nonsense I had up there.))

Something that seems to get left out of a lot of AA culture back when I was in it are the parts in the BB where everything else had failed...including psychiatry!!! BEFORE a person became a member. Modernly, we go in reverse order: instead of seeking out others causes for which alcohol is a symptom? It's straight into AA. I very much agree with the author in the link of the definition of insanity... When something isn't working? There may well be other issues at play. Because the founders and first few generations used AA as a last resort, and not a first resort? There is a very strong bias against psychiatry & medicine... Because it had already failed. Repeatedly. Today, it's the opposite. AA is the first resort, but the culture still acts as if all other measures had already been attempted. It's a huge problem IMO.

 

[Chava]

Okay, but I'm not rehashing trauma stuff with my sponsor, who is a real estate agent. I don't even tolerate working on it with my therapist very well. And if I'm supposed to unload everything via the steps, f*ck them. I'll just not drink, like I had done for about 10 years without a sponsor.

I accept my part in all the amends I've already made (shoplifting, insulting close friends, lying, etc). I don't accept any of "my part" in being abused or raped or assaulted (like I was in the wrong place, I didn't tell anyone, etc). It was life-affirming, not ego-affirming to call bullshit on that response and work with a therapist instead of a sponsor. I have to draw a line between the roles and right now it's not clear enough. My inventory isn't my place for major traumas right now.

 

[Friday]

Did you put much trauma stuff in your inventory? Was it the expectation or did you feel more comfortable with it because you also trusted your sponsor with it because of her professional background?

Virtually none, whatsoever.

My PTSD has 3 components, really; What I did, what I didn't do, & what was done to me.

The first two, in theory I prolly "should" have placed at least some of them... But I very literally narrowed my focus to what was due -in theory- to being under the influence. That doesn't include any of my BigT stuff. The last one? What was done to me? Isn't on me. Those aren't my sins. They don't belong on the list. The few that crept in (abusive boyfriend, for example) I got schooled hard and fast on.

I've never talked about my BigT stuff (1990s) with anyone who wasn't there with me, until this year.

ETA... Essentially what I did was erase 5 years of my life from even being considered for the list. My sponsor was also really good about "my part", when I was a child? Not allowing myself to hold myself to adult standards. Helluva lot of rewriting during those parts, too! I don't have childhood trauma, so it's not like that was a huge hurdle coming to the understanding of "When I was a child I thought as a child, spoke as a child, acted as a child," thing. Grokking childhood was helped in large part that I was doing Step4 when my son was a baby & I was in the middle of 2 quarters of Developmental Psych requirements at my University. It's an ascending heirarchy... It only flows in one direction.

Babies have needs
Children have wants
Adults have agendas.

You weren't a grown-up Friday. What was your part? That you were a kid! You were *learning*. You had never done this before. There is *no way* the mind of child could grasp all the complexities involved. Children aren't miniature adults.

Still, even without my trauma history stuff, it took us several months to get through my 4th step.

 

[Chava]

Thanks @FridayJones , I feel like I'd leave trauma stuff off too mainly because it's hard enough with a trained therapist. And I am working with a therapist right now, so why make it muddled and confusing, like having two different piano teachers, with one who is actually a guitar player.

I've done the major 4-9 steps where I made major amends. I did that a long time ago. And while not perfect, I was sober a long time and didn't lie or steal or try to beat anyone up....because I was sober. So a current 4th step would likely involve fear stuff that I feel like I'm working with in therapy. It's maybe just not a great time to work through the steps in the rigid 1-12 way. I just want to work more on figuring out my higher power connection stuff. But the sponsor I have wants to go 1-12 and her approach feels rigid.

That being said, I'd admit I'm not the kind of person people enjoy sponsoring....no, I don't think I'm my own higher power or that I'm "terminally unique"...but I'm avoidant and confusing and resist rigidity intensely. My therapist is very process-oriented and somehow it's a good way to help me feel responsible for myself.

I feel the rebel in me regarding the structure and I don't know if I need to deal with that right now or if I need to just throw my ambien away (which has been like the "first drink" lately...I don't think about drinking during the day and haven't drank any day I didn't take ambien....so it might boil down to a more pressing issue between me and my doctor....and me and my therapist...and then a sponsor and the 1-12 orderly step work they have learned from their sponsor another day). Hmm. I don't know. I don't want to waste a potential sponsor's time with my resistance and confusion.

 

[Flossy]

@Chava I didn't read all of the posts in this thread. I skimmed them but I got the gist and the important points you made jumped out at me.

I am answering from a intuitive viewpoint rather than an analytical one. I think your intuition is telling you that you dont need a sponsor.

I agree. You don't. You are extremely self-aware and you have stated your case very well to/for yourself.

You have analysed it to the enth degree.

You dont need an unqualified human analysing you. It's hard enough to get a qualified one who can do it well.

In your position, I would follow my intuition and drop the sponsor.

I might add they will likely try to convince you that you are being 'bad'. If so, this indicates there is an agenda on their part that is not necessarily respectful of your self awareness. Or they just have not heard all of your thoughts. You don't have to tell them. You have laid it out here for yourself.

You know you dont want to have a sponsor. You believe you can do it perfectly without one. Follow your instinct.

Intelligence and self-awareness makes it OK to not blindly follow what is prescribed. You would not keep taking a med that irritated the shit out of you. This is no different. IMO