Friendships, Relationships and Loyalties

[Nicolette]

Hi Everyone

In light of what I have seen transpire across the forum in the last couple of days, I would like to ask you how you perceive your loyalties towards your friends and how you think others perceive them.

The catalyst for this for me was a member saying that I posted what I posted due to marrying Anthony when in reality I just posted what I thought and felt at the time.

Here are some questions:

• Do we, as humans, judge people based on their friendship....expecting them to have a bias if the issue involves a friend?
• Do you have a personal bias if you see someone attacking a friend or do you be honest to the situation and say how you truly feel?
• Can you be honest with your friends even if it may hurt their feelings? They say the truth often hurts?
• Are your friends honest with you or do you expect them to stand up for you?
• Does your situation affect your friendship?...eg Rachel (hope you don't mind). She noticed her relationship with people on the forum changed once she became a moderator....some members struggled to see she was just doing a job and then on the other side of the coin...Rachel could sometimes not truly say what she wanted due to her position.
• Do you judge people by their relationship? Because some people have personal relationships eg Anthony and I, does that change your view on how you see what we write. Say if I agree with Anthony do you perceive it to be my view or do you think I say that just because Anthony is my fiance?

Just some questions I thought were worth pondering. What do you think?

 

[ga yankee]

This is a tough one for the middle of the night but since I don't sleep let me throw in my views-

I came from a rough neighborhood so my friends at that time were solid. We knew we had to stick up for each other because it was all we had. Then we moved or went to different schools and I made new friends that were similar...very loyal, supportive and unconditional to each other. As I got even older, my dynamic changed to people that were either emotionally unavailable or just totally screwed up. Why? Because I was emotionally void and I was much better at taking care of others than myself. As an adult I have more close friends than most people. Since I've been diagnosed, the people in my life that were 'toxic' are gone...by my choice. Also by them not wanting to deal with who I've become in recovery. The new me with more feelings than jokes/sarcasm isn't who they became friends with and I honestly and totally understand that. I have noticed that the friends who remain are closer now than they ever have been. Many have said they enjoy our relationship even more because I talk about things that are meaningful instead of constantly putting a joke onto everything. They said they love the fact that I feel and talk about my feelings because it makes them feel important and loved. We talk about the good and the bad and know that when the conversation is over we're still the same people. Just better off because we know we can be honest.

I have made it a point in my life to leave judgement out of my thoughts. It is not my place to tell you who to marry, sleep with, what to eat, who to vote for, who/what to worship. Maybe that is the one thing in my life I am proud of. My father said he was a racist until he went to Vietnam...he said when he saw that everybody's blood was red, nothing on the outside mattered. I was lucky to always have friends from every walk of life, race, religion, wealth, poverty. The rich are just as screwed up as some poor. White is no smarter than black. The stories I covered for work took me all over the world and I saw first hand that judgement of others causes NOTHING but pain. From school shootings to wars to abortion clinic bombings. I dare anyone to explain one good thing that comes from passing judgement. To me passing judgement narrows your view and there's a whole world out there to see.!!

I did not answer each question specifically because if you read them and then look at my beliefs you will see the answers are all there. Now...to address the final question specifically for this forum: I have no doubt that some people are protective of each other and so they respond according to that. All of my therapists, doctors and the members of my group are EXTREMELY protective of me and I think that helps me trust them even more. I've thought long and hard lately in light of recent events on the forum and my conclusions are simple for me. Everyone has their own opinion and having the ability to express that without puking is something I'm still learning. I can read a post and take it or leave it..usually. I see the moderators as guides and little elves that help steer us in the right direction when it comes to rules. There must be rules or this would never work because we all have different extremes of trauma and symptoms. As for you and Anthony... well my conclusion is this- I can't think of better people to run this forum because you work as a team that lives with this everyday. You live with PTSD as sufferer and carer. You understand it and that's what I need...understanding from all sides of this. I can only learn from people that understand. Since no one knows my personality this may sound like a suck up post but I'm here to tell you I don't blow sunshine up anyone's ass. I just tell the truth. And I'm finally learning to tell how I feel so that is how I feel.

Wonderful topic...I'll be interested to see the responses.

 

[Nicolette]

As for you and Anthony... well my conclusion is this- I can't think of better people to run this forum because you work as a team that lives with this everyday. You live with PTSD as sufferer and carer. You understand it and that's what I need...understanding from all sides of this. I can only learn from people that understand.

Thank you so much ga yankee and well done for being so smart...being willing to learn is a very beneficial trait. And yes, we do live with this everyday and we do it very well so one would think we have something good to offer.

 

[becvan]

Hmm well I'm as brutal in real life as I am on here. The only difference is on here I can walk away and not lose my temper so much. :wink:

There has only been a few people I have ever ran into that I can not be totally honest with, I don't hang around with those long. I do expect my friends to be honest with me, even if it hurts. I won't accept anything less. A true friend kicks your ass when you need it. I also expect the same from me, any less and it's not a friendship in my eyes.

As for on here, I try to hold my tongue. If I said what I really think, some times, I'd be banned in a heart beat.. lol

There are many clicks of members on here, piss one off and you have all of them breathing down your neck. It happens all the time. I ignore them. I know V and I got accused of that quite often! LOL Even though we heartily and sometimes viciously disagreed.

Most of the time, I see you and Anthony as a couple and you both speak as a couple. I do not see that as a bad thing. I do believe it can sometimes affect how and what you post. I also believe it can sometimes not affect how and what you post. But that is natural for any couple. I'm like that with my man!:wink: However when it comes to moderating I see you both as doing what you need to. Mind you, I've been there!

Not sure if that was really what you were driving at but hey.. it sis almost 5 am! lol

bec

I wanted to add about the you agreeing with Anthony. When have you disagreed? ( I can't recall but then I'm not on much) That might be what is causing the perception that you two just back each other up no matter what.. no one sees when you DON'T agree.. Many people probably don't get that it's probably done in private and not broad casted all over the forum.

 

[Deleted member 541]

I either click with a person(in real life and on the forum) or I don't, plain and simple. If I don't, then I don't waste my time with them or on them.

I am loyal to my friends, but I can tell them when I think that they have gone to far, or that they are wrong. I can also hear that from them, and have as early as last night in a phone conversation from a friend. Thanks Nic!

I speak my OWN mind, my opinions, I trust my gut feelings and I am usually right.

As far as you and Anthony are concerned, and this is JMO! You are Moderators on this forum, and what you say goes. It wouldn't matter if you are married or not, or if one was from Mars and the other from the moon. You set the rules and you also have your own minds.

 

[linasmom]

I'm brutally honest and I always have been. As a result, I tend to attract friends who are also brutally honest and there is no need for bias in any situation.

Recently, I was accused of being part of a "clique" on this board. I would say to that: hardly so. I've made friends here - who are also brutally honest, who yesterday emailed me and told me to shut my mouth already!

With regards to taking a leadership role - people instinctively look at you differently and that's understandable, I have no control over other people's perception. I had to bite my tongue on several occasions, not because my intention was to not be honest, but because I needed to be a role model for the members of this board and I took that very seriously. Never once did my friendships with other members influence my decisions, because like I said, the friends that I've made on here are as honest with me as I am with them.

Strange thing - I've never once viewed you, Nicolette, and Anthony as "one". I have personally seen you make your own editorial decisions without Anthony and vice-versa. It is only reasonable to think that you two do not agree on everything, I mean come on - who does? In my opinion, and from what I know, your actions and Anthony's actions with regards to the board always stem from your individual dedication to this board, which in the end is about helping people.

Do I think that everyone acts without bias? Of course not. But bonds are created, just like in animals, and instinct kicks in.

Best,
Rachel

 

[anthony]

Nicolette usually doesn't disagree with me about PTSD aspects.... but other facets of life... well, that is a different story. Yes... people don't see that stuff because its not PTSD related. Nicolette tends to ask me things before doing them here, hence why disagreements are not seen here. Because she doesn't have PTSD, she asks if a specific post or edit is required or not, as she hasn't seen the worst of PTSD as she got me in fairly good shape compared to my last relationship when I broke totally.

What I know is normal for PTSD, she does not, yet is learning. So you are about on the money once again Bec.

 

[2quilt]

Because I have PTSD, my version of reality is skewed: I take offense at comments that are general, I get PMS and so I can go from zero to bitch in a blink, and so any decision I make on a day when I have both PMS and PTSD badly, just give me chocolate and keep me away from fire arms.

I need people to be honest with me, (gently) to tell me when I taking things the wrong way. Specially on the internet, where we can't see facial expressions, hear sarcasm, irony, or smartass-ness in words that have multiple meanings.

Nicolette is her own person. I hope that she speaks unbiasedly, but I can see where she would defend Anthony; I would defend my man too. My man has only one human on this earth who does not consider my husband the nicest person they have ever met, so if anyone were to tell me that he (my husband) was mean to them or sarcastic or cussed them out, I know that the chance of that happening in reality is .001 percent. He just isn't wired to argue or get angry. I would hear the complainer out, and I would probably instinctively know if they had PTSD, and I would negotiate and compromise with the complainer.

Although it may be a knee-jerk reaction to defend the perfect man who purchased the wedding ring, I also can see all my husband's tiny flaws clearer than anybody. I can sometimes make you a detailed list! I don't think Nicolette and Anthony agree on everything or cover up for each other or would defend each other if they truly disagreed. But maybe not argue in front of the children (us).

Nicolette has the added advantage of seeing everything Anthony says in writing so his words can't be disputed. I think of you two as seperate beings, each with seperate opinions. As your relationship matures, you two may become a 'united front' or you may seem that way now to some members.

I want Nicolette, Anthony, and everyone to be honest with me, regardless if they are admins, mods, or members.

 

[anthony]

Well said 2quilt... those who know me already know you're only going to get honest from me... I don't do tip toe well... yes, I do know I have no tact and am very blunt with people at times, but only when I believe the niceties need to be removed in order to not distract the point, which can be often missed when we put all the fuzzy stuff around things. Yes, Nicolette certainly does and would have her say if anything I said was way off... we are literally very alike... we call things "frootloops" often because we both like them, and we often say, do or think the very same things about things in life. It really is quite uncanny to say how much we both think alike. That is another reason you do not see us disagree here.

It does piss me off at times when someone has a dig at Nicolette, as she is far more sensitive than I and takes things more personally than I do, because she honestly believes or tries to help, not hinder. Me... I take most things with a grain of salt and don't really care what anyone else thinks of me. My self esteem is very healthy basically stated.

I had some twit come here the last couple of days... PTSD1, all they did was challenge me right from the start. Created threads how I don't have a PHD blah blah blah... all already known facts, they just wanted to cause disruption. Yes, you don't see that stuff because of moderation.... all this person wanted to do was dispute facts... not my facts, but medical facts. To me... banned and didn't even dampen my attitude one bit. I have loyalties to the right people in my life, not the wrong people. I completely trust four people on the face of this earth... not many considering the amount of people I know. Used to be three... Nicolette is now the fourth. Loyalty is everything in a true friendship in my eyes.... never deceive the friendship to remove that level of trust I believe. I guess this is why it would be quite hard to affect me personally by words or actions.... Teflon, I do love having that ability.

 

[Auburngirl]

I find some of these questions a bit odd in this context, because for me the forum isn't my real world and I don't have social networks within it. I know that for some other people this is quite different and, obviously some of you know each other (in some cases very well!!) in real life. For me it is a place for information and support and only one component of my support network both real and virtual.

I think I'm more cautious with people I don't know well, and want to be sure of assuming the best of them when they do something I don't understand or take offence at (because I don't know them well enough to judge their intention). I can be more jokey and direct with close friends because I know their context and they know mine. I think the basic thing for me is to be respectful and civil of everyone and to count people and their views equally - and try to separate my view of people from my view of their opinion (of course I have friends with views I abhore and people that annoy me who I think have a good take on things).

In terms of backing people up, I think it's not an issue of honesty or not (I am honest with my friends and they with me) but providing context, or shedding light on possible misunderstandings. In my mind, the goal of human interaction is to understand each other. Of a good friend, I wouldn't necessarily say "X is right" but "I know X well, and she's a pretty considerate person, maybe we're misinterpreting this, maybe we need more information." In terms of my own background, culture, and family, how you say something is nearly as important as how you say it, criticism well expressed can do wonders, criticism expressed poorly can be uselessly distructive. Words are important, especially when writing - because there are no cues like tone of voice or facial expressions to show whether someone's angry or kidding!

In terms of taking criticism, I tend to have a little routine I follow: take it on board and examine it - is there evidence that supports this? is there evidence that doesn't? what do I feel is the motivation behind it? And finally, should I act on this (in part or in full), or 'throw it out the window'?

Part of my take on this is probably shaped by the fact that I live in a very very small community. Everyone needs to get along with everyone, so conflict no matter how small needs to be resolved, or found a way to live with. Maintaining cordial relations is critical, and maintaining a community spirit is essential for the functioning of the town, we all need each other. As a result, we tend to recognise each other's strengths, weakness and particularities, odd characters, etc. and find a way to live together.

 

[Nicolette]

It does piss me off at times when someone has a dig at Nicolette, as she is far more sensitive than I and takes things more personally than I do, because she honestly believes or tries to help, not hinder.

Thank you Sweetheart.... I do so love you.

 

[Nicolette]

Mind you, this thread was not intentioned to be about Anthony and I, it was only the catalyst for it. I was hoping for others to share their views about their situations and I just used an example from my life.