Lies Are Truth

[Sandstone]

There isn't enough to account for any sort of Dissociative Disorder. I've read what others recount on here, and I have nothing like that. Yes there are several events, but none are anything remotely like serious, So if there is no mechanism to create it, it can't be true, it is non-sense. Yet it makes sense, it seems to fit. Balancing those two impossibilities makes me feel crazy and want to run.

 

[Friday]

From a champion tail chaser / circular argumentrix extraordinaire... Wow.

I could poke about 17 holes in that argument/conclusion... But if what you want to believe is that you're a liar, & liars are despicable? There's very little point.

What do you want?

 

[Sandstone]

I want someone to give a sensible answer that addresses the issues I'm trying to discuss. HOW I DEAL WITH ABSOLUTELY BELIEVING TWO DIRECTLY CONFLICTING THINGS TO BE TRUE SIMULTANEOUSLY WHILE ALSO BELIEVING THEM NOT TO BE TRUE?

Unlike you I'm not playing a game, I'm trying to find a resolution that allows me to retain something like sanity. This is not a circular argument it is at best a multi-layer structure. Except that that sounds like something that cannot be true.

 

[Suzetig]

I think it's entirely possible to hold two opposing statements to be true, and both believe and disbelieve them - depending on my own state of mind. So, for example, believing that I must have been a wicked child who deserved to be beaten, while also knowing that wasn't the case and knowing my parents were responsible for their violence towards me. On any given day both feel completely true - I'm not DID but I do have parts of me that feel differently about be, hold opposing views about me etc.

My younger self honestly believes I am to blame, that I'm shameful and deserve to be rejected. The older me knows none of that to be true. Depending on which part of me is being touched I can see the truth and the lie all at the same time. Sometimes what I think and what I feel completely contradict each other too. I'm slowly coming to understand myself through therapy, challenging my thinking and through my therapist challenging my thinking.

I hear how much distress this is causing you - are you in therapy just now?

 

[Suzetig]

Actually, your idea of a multi-layer structure makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Sandstone]

Yes, I'm currently in therapy, though thanks to the wanderings of the NHS I soon won't be. I don't expect the progress of my thoughts will stop obligingly when therapy stops, there will just be nowhere to take them.

I don't know if I'm moving in this direction to oblige therapists who have suggested it. I'm aware i can be very compliant. I simply don't know what is true, and I can't see how I can settle in either direction without holding myself to be a liar.

 

[Ronin]

HOW I DEAL WITH ABSOLUTELY BELIEVING TWO DIRECTLY CONFLICTING THINGS TO BE TRUE SIMULTANEOUSLY WHILE ALSO BELIEVING THEM NOT TO BE TRUE?

By layering them.

But it won't help you get anywhere. You can be a master builder but houses of cards still come down with the slightest wind of breath.

 

[Suzetig]

Can both be true? That you/your therapist can see signs of dissociation but you have no knowledge of what might be the cause? Dissociation is, I think, more common that we realise and while yes significant trauma can cause dissociative disorder, so can day to day developmental trauma where incidents in their own right don't seem "big" enough but have a cumulative effect. That's the situation for me, although I also down play some of my experiences.

I wonder if you're thinking there might be some major trauma that you aren't able to remember that's just waiting to come to the surface?

 

[Sandstone]

I wonder if you're thinking there might be some major trauma that you aren't able to remember that's just waiting to come to the surface?

No , that's just it. I'm certain there is nothing hidden. If there was a possibility of that then it might make more sense.

@Cashew I don't understand what you are saying. Can you put it another way?

 

[shimmerz]

HOW I DEAL WITH ABSOLUTELY BELIEVING TWO DIRECTLY CONFLICTING THINGS TO BE TRUE SIMULTANEOUSLY WHILE ALSO BELIEVING THEM NOT TO BE TRUE?

Because trauma is just that. Believing two directly conflicting things to be true simultaneously. What if you were just open to possibilities? It is possible this or that or something else happened. Can you explore from there?

All I see is a bunch of self judgement here and I think until you blow that away it will be a black, heavy curtain over what you may be attempting to get to. Just my 2 cents. Ignore if it doesn't call out to you. :hug:

 

[Sandstone]

@shimmerz if you mean being open to the possibility that there is some other trauma, then no, I can't because I am certain there is none, I don't lie, and I won't be complicit in manufacturing something to fit the circumstances.

If you mean being open to the possibility of being dissociative, then yes I am open to that while at the same time being sure it is impossible. It makes sense, but is nonsense. Hence, the feeling of looming insanity.

I've told the story before of walking away from the Baptist church when the Elders told me it was my fault my marriage was ending, despite my husband picking up men for sex in public lavatories. Then I was quite clear in my mind that I had to remove myself, that it was destabilising to be told I had to believe something that was untrue. This carries the same sense of threat, but it is associated with either option. Neither logic nor feeling moves me to either being more true, or more of a lie than the other.They are both true, they are both false

I want to run, quite literally. I'm making plans for places I could go where I have no connections and no-one would think of looking for me.

 

[Ronin]

I don't understand what you are saying. Can you put it another way?

Yep ;) That sooner or later, you'll have to decide with which version to stick, for better or worse, and do it thoroughly. & that upholding both may be possible only for a short time, before it becomes unmanageable.

Also: Just because a trauma messed with your life doesn't make you a fake or worth harsh (self) judgments.