Buddhism And Trauma

[Deleted member 20978]

I'm posting this as a question or for discussion, but so need to give some info up front about my own experiences with Buddhism and meditation. I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum to post in, please mods move if it belongs somewhere else.

There's a lot of stuff on the forums and in literature related to trauma around mindfulness and meditation. I personally associate these things first with Buddhism, which has influenced a lot of people in the mental health world. There's a thread about how mindfulness may be bad or not recommended for people with PTSD.

I started doing yoga and meditating in my 20s, and then was formally introduced to Buddhism in a college class at 26. In my self-practice I had both found huge benefits but also very strange reactions, physical and emotional disturbances. Over the years I would periodically seek out new sanghas (Buddhist communities, like a meditation group) and would often have the same experience -- at first, a lot of useful stuff, and hopefulness that I had found a good community. But then too much coming up, couldn't sit still, then when I could... Well, let me leave it as saying, things would happen for me that I could only find referenced in very esoteric literature but that the local monk or teacher would shrug off or tell me I was overthinking things. I would also end up frequently annoyed at the ways the communities did not seem to get basic principles but instead got caught up in all the trappings (but okay that's a separate topic).

I would often end up wanting to ask, essentially: is there some sort of gentle intro to all this that isn't completely destabilizing? I didn't know I had PTSD, nor did I understand that maybe this mind work was somehow less safe as a result. But I also have so much belief (*bad Buddhist!!*) that all of it -- the dharma, meditation, finding good teachers -- can and does and has helped people heal from real traumas.

So I'm curious what others have experienced with Buddhism or Buddhist meditation. Anything similar? Good, bad? I gave a lot of info up front so I wouldn't be adding it to responses.

 

[EveHarrington]

I am guessing that you know a fair amount about Buddhism as you've taken a class. Can I ask if you've found any decent books on Buddhism that present it in an objective manner? I know that books on religion are often slanted or biased so one needs to be careful as to what they choose to read. This is why I avoid most books on Christianity (I am of the Christian faith.) I've picked up a few books on Buddhism in the past and the interpretations of some of the authors left much to be desired (but fortunately I knew a bit about basic teachings so I didn't completely write off Buddhism).

 

[Deleted member 20978]

Oh the class was a weird introduction really. Weird because so many of the ideas were ones I had come to on my own, had no idea they were this thing called Buddhism. But I've read yeah many books, some very lucid and clear, others too esoteric. More of the former. I actually find it easier to read a lot of the stuff than what happens when I start really meditating. It includes some things I'm not stating because I don't think people would believe them. But the overall experience is of destabilizing, as if my mind wanted to stay locked up in some way.

As for specific book titles/authors, I don't want to get into too many specifics on this thread.

 

[Chava]

A lot of what I could say would be similar to what I said in the recent post about mindfulness...more helpful for me to slow into it, like mindful movement, or focusing on sound vs. breath (too internal and I also have trauma around that).

But Buddhist-specific, I have struggled too much with Zen concepts. I love Zen and have worked with a couple great teachers. But personally, it's hard for my damaged "self" to grapple with the concepts of emptiness and no-self, since that's what I've always felt, though not in a egoless way, but more in a nihilistic and dissociative way. "Buddha nature" doesn't work well for me either. While it's been a mess to understand, I personally need some concept of inner spark, spirit, some connection to the eternal...some part that is unchanging. I won't try to explain what I've sorted out for myself. But the Zen end of Buddhism gave me nothing to grab onto. That's not saying it's not there...I think with my background it just enabled some of my feelings of detachment too easily. I totally understand the idea of detachment, and some ways I do need to remind myself when I need it. But in the bigger picture, I am too detached already and need to feel like I do attach somewhere in the universe.

 

[Deleted member 20978]

That all makes a lot of sense Chava. Yeah it reminds me how one of the early things I learned -- I think in that class -- was that everyone has different entry points and things that would work for them. Some would benefit from reading, others by meditating, others by ritual practices. I definitely found that movement was essential for me to ever really meditate. So hiking much more than sitting. But yeah also sometimes the total detachment and especially the way people in the suburbs or whatever reinterpret it all, it can feel a bit too... detached I guess. Buddhist assholes are a very special type of asshole with their I'm more non-attached than you BS. heheh

 

[Chava]

Buddhist assholes are a very special type of asshole with their I'm more non-attached than you BS

If I wanted to (I don't), I could totally be a Buddhist asshole. :D (no aloof, detached emoticon to be found here!). I did really like those who managed to become more connected and compassionate through their practice...that was inspiring. But yeah, I detach too well.

 

[Deleted member 20978]

Yeah I only in recent years was introduced to some of the more compassion-oriented types of meditation. Fascinating stuff, and very different than cultivating single-pointed attention or whatnot. I really wish I could just find the magic teacher who would lead *me* specifically through the stuff I need to learn to work through my mind. Like the ancient guy who trains Uma in Kill Bill 2. She was a badass. I'm hijacking my own thread again.

 

[Chava]

I'm hijacking my own thread again.

It's your thread. Though seems more like possible discussion than "social", but probably because I think it's a good topic. Anyway, now I need to see Kill Bill 2.

 

[Teasel]

That must have been so dissapointing and frustrating not to feel understood, or to have the info and understanding you have now.

I think I strongly believe also that meditation can be extroadinarily healing, and transformative and that's something I think that I want at some point in the distant future. Distant futire because on a daily basis i'm very keen on doing almost anything but meditating. Having to face few minutes in my own head without a distractuon is something ive spent years avoiding.

In the Dhamma Brothers documentary the inmates go through a week long siilent meditation and there is something about what they gain that I want so much. I loved watching that documentary,;I and found myself wanting to doo that too. I dont feel i cpuld do that for a moment though. I feel rightly or wrongly that I would find it unbearable, that it would scare me. Also though I wonder the film srlls a deel good story...The man in that film who was moved to another prison seemed to me absolutely heartbroken to have lost the community and shared experience and understanding he had with the other men that did it.

One of my all time favourite books is everyday zen by Charlotte Joko Beck. I find it very comforting indeed. Not because it is fluffy or lovely or anything like that. Rather the opposite, because it says life is hard. That life is being where I am and working with who I am in the moment. Including all the imperfection of that. Helps me feel ok about being me, less ashamed. Hearing that Practise is about being in the present moment and noticing what's going on in my mind helps me feel calm too because it feels great for me to feel like I know how to do something to make things better.

I find reading that book helps me exhale and relax in a way that receiving love and comfort might calm someone else. So on viously I've not read it in years.

I very much like that a focus of bhudism is working on the self. And that there are guidelines on how to do that.

I tried to complete the mindfulness way through depression on the suggestion of a CBT therapist. I think I managed 2 classes. I loved the things I learned about how the brain tries to logically figure out why we feel bad and gets tied in knots trying harder and harder to figure out what's wrong with us so we can fix it, get rid of it. Not realising the things our mind comes up with - as we are depressed - only make us ferl worse and more depressed and like it's our fault we ate depressed.

I also have some difficulty with meditation that focuses on body sensations or breathing.

Lol also am almost allergic to having to spend 5 minutes in my own company. The horror!

I've read about mindfulness not necessarily being helpful for people with ptsd and was glad to know about that. It makes sense to me that meditation could enable stuff that I am trying to keep buried to come up.

A while back I was getting into the habit of meditating daily and really felt the benefits. Felt much calmer, far more able to think about my life in a helpful way - coming up with good ideas on how to deal with things. I felt more positive and productive than I gave for years. It was lovely. I've spent the last 6 months avoiding the good habits I was developing. I hope I can get back to them in the future .

Ok well that's a long post!

 

[Biz]

@EveHarrington , a good intro book is "What Makes you Not a Buddhist" by Jamang Khyentse Rinpoche. He's an excellent writer and makes a lot of very specific references to American culture.

I too practice Buddhism. It's been incredibly healing for me. I have a meditation teacher who also does spiritual counseling. I see her once a week. She's is trauma-informed. She and I talk about practices and what helps and what destabilizes.

@Jemini , I'm not sure what forms you practiced in the past but my teacher has warned me against practicing the ngondro or vajrayana forms until I feel more stabilized. One of her associates who I've done some workshops with says he feels many forms of Zen are not trauma-informed (but he has soured quite a bit on Buddhism and practices a different spiritual approach).

Personally, my practice has made all the difference in my recovery. I'm very grateful for the work and my teacher. I go to two Sangha's. One, I don't love, but it is a good place to practice. The other is very open and kind and I really like it there (less convenient so I'm more often at the first one).

 

[Deleted member 20978]

@Berlinda yeah lots of stuff there. Never heard of the Dhamma Brothers movie, will have to check that out. I also have a hard time sitting with myself especially these days. In my extremely complex and esoteric world view, which is informed by Buddhism but not solely, I feel like there's something about how we imprint and reflect in our mind the people, places, things, ideas that we are exposed to. When it's really uncomfortable to sit with myself, I see it as, there is too much problematic stuff rolling around in there and not enough things I can positively imprint lately (e.g. positive connections, or seeing a good movie or reading a good book or whatever). So often for me, it's like I know I need more "input" before I can then sit in silence and let some new good things percolate around with all the old heavy dark things. Also it's just friggin' uncomfortable and there are clearly things inside that scream and shout if I get quiet enough.

Oh and I've poked around that Charlotte Joko Beck book before, can't remember when or where. I have trouble with Zen myself, doesn't work too well for me, but some writers are really good from that tradition.

@Biz I was doing self-taught candle-gazing and similar thing to train attention back in my mid-20s. Later joined some sitting groups for basic focus on the breath type stuff, with not a ton of instruction. More recently have found a good lay teacher at a local center but have not been going as the community makes me a little nuts with their beliefs. It's helpful to hear you say you can take parts of different sanghas. I should really try this. I know there are other centers somewhat less convenient to me but many in this area. I should keep looking for good teachers.