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Relationship Ptsd Episode Or Some Other Terminology?

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I think what I was trying to say before is that I think you would get a lot more positive input if you worded things differently in your threads. You often list specific examples that wouldn't relate to a lot of sufferers and then look for very specific generalisations to do with them. Then you tend to get a whole lot of responses that point that out and it goes in the same direction as a result. And you seem to be unhappy when that happens rather finding the information shared useful.

The other thing that tends to happen in your threads is that you don't seem to be open to hearing sufferers input. You just have a particular aim and seem to find anything that doesn't fit annoying rather than potentially enlightening.

It may be very useful for you to rather describe your personal experiences and those of your sufferer. It's up to you of course.

I think people have answered your question here. Those with PTSD are always symptomatic to some extent but it can look quiet from the outside if everything is a bit under control or if they are expert at hiding it. Symptoms can flare (possibly leading to a your scenario 2 as a one example of many) or they can flare a lot (possibly leading to your scenario 1 as one possibility of many). Some would look afraid or withdrawn with scenario 1.

You want to define this so that you can read more and sufferers are telling you that you need to look at the symptoms to do that and there is no technical term that would assist you.
 
Anyone with more technical knowledge of PTSD know how these two scenarios are referenced technically? I'm quite curious to know so I can go do more reading on "Scenario 2".
I dunno - I did my best to provide a more contextualized backdrop for your questions. The two scenarios you are describing aren't referenced in PTSD literature because they aren't the way most clinicians parse PTSD. So, my post was an attempt to give you a different (and possibly more useful) angle on the topic.
Don't make it personal to my case because that is not the situation at all.
I'm curious, then, what the situation here is? - That's an honest question, not at all coming from a judge-y place.
 
I dunno - I did my best to provide a more contextualized backdrop for your questions. The two scenarios you are describing aren't referenced in PTSD literature because they aren't the way most clinicians parse PTSD. So, my post was an attempt to give you a different (and possibly more useful) angle on the topic.

Your response was about as close as it comes in this thread so I appreciate it. Everyone has a core personality that is displayed for most of their life but then there are periods of time that have a bit of a filter. These filters can be blatant and intense or subtle but different from the core personality. For instance for the blatant and intense would be if there is a really intense emotion being felt so the persons personality is modified for a couple hours or a day or couple days. That emotional filter may be sad or angry and everything that they perceived for that period of time is perceived through that and reacted to with that filter. A subtle but different scenario most people have is during the holidays where they are stressing out about going to see family or what the plans are going to be and if they have enough money. That period of time tends to be weeks/months. So things are filtered through that. However their core personality is generally shown without a filter during the spring through fall when there aren't things messing with their emotions.

The blatant and intense with PTSD has many potential symptomatic actions and statements that can be understood to be associated with PTSD within a time frame that is short such as the minutes, hours, and day period of time. Not all PTSD sufferers have the same potential symptomatic actions and statements but can certainly be seen as being related to PTSD vs someone without PTSD. An example I've seen for this one is a personal example but is intended to show what I mean by blatant and intense.

Example: Sitting on couch sitting next to each other watching a favorite tv show together and laughing and cuddled up together and within a second my PTSD sufferer turns to me and starts berating me with insults while yelling and slapping me and gets up and starts saying horrible and terrifying things. This second set of personality shift lasted roughly 3 hours.

The subtle and less intense
over an extended period of time such as days, weeks, and months also has potential symptomatic actions, statements, and phenomenon created from the PTSD filter. Just as the blatant and intense scenario those potentials are not going to be the same for every PTSD sufferer but are surely associated to the PTSD. An example I've seen for this one is a personal example but is intended to show what I mean by subtle and less intense.

Example: Personality over a period of 3 to 4 weeks goes from loving and chipper to distant, no more love at all, and finding a different person she wants to be with an moves out and in with him and starts binge drinking, abusing ativan and xanax, and almost moving onto the hard stuff like cocaine (which she has always hated with an intense passion and anyone that does it), cutting, and other self destructive things. Stayed moved out and doing that stuff for two weeks. Comes back, gets into trouble at home, gets arrested, goes to jail. Sum total span of time was around 2 months. This time span included blatant and intense short periods at times, for instance the short span of time that she was home, got into trouble, and wen to jail, which was around 1 day of time.

The subtle and intense is harder to perceive as it is gradual and has less intense personality shifts that can but not always will include the emotional numbing, inability to trust, and starting self destructive behaviors in private that aren't always caught by the partner until it is too late.

Those two are on top of and different from the normal modes of operation from the regular personality the PTSD sufferer has.

The reason I have separated the two periods of time that are different from the normal core personality of the PTSD sufferer is because the sets of symptoms are different even though the blatant and intense can sit on top of the subtle and less intense periods of time.

Think of a stock chart in that the price goes up and down fairly predictably in a nice calm sine wave pattern. Now you get a blatant and intense period where the price goes way up for a short period of time (minutes, hours, or a day) and then goes back down to the normal fairly predictable nice calm sine wave pattern. Then a subtle but less intense part happens where the price starts going up and down but averaging a more upward pattern and this plateaus and sustains from the start to end of this pattern for days, weeks, or months, and then goes back down to the nice calm normal price sine wave pattern. During that subtle but less intense pattern you have portions of it that have a blatant and intense pattern on top of the already higher than nice and calm sine wave and it lasts for minutes, hours, or a day, and then drops back down and resumes the subtle and less intense pattern. (I tried making a quick image of that graph but currently in too much dental pain to concentrate that much as well as not skilled as I'd like at making graphs.)

I'm curious, then, what the situation here is? - That's an honest question, not at all coming from a judge-y place.

I came to this forum for a personal scenario but have since obtained a secondary scenario for doing more in depth research into the PTSD relationship topic and PTSD in general. The secondary reason being that when I came here it has taken me months of time to read many many seperate threads to obtain even a remotely reasonably clear picture of what is going on with the scenario of PTSD sufferers being super in love and in long term relationships and then suddenly and without almost any warning pulling the disappearing act. Seeing other people coming and posting the very similar story as I have experienced with the same types of fears, concerns, and questions, has inspired me to find enough information to build a reasonably close to full picture article that I can post to this website. I've been sent many private messages and talked to many people on the phone from this website about that scenario because they saw that I was getting some information and had information they did not have and wanted to understand as fast as they could about that scenario. For reasons of finding peace, comfort, understanding, how to communicate in a way that wouldn't push their partner away forever, etc.

So all in all, I'm looking for as clear a picture as I can in the most generalized way possible that relates to more than just my scenario. When I say generalized I mean in a way that encapsulates as many potential symptoms and such that CAN be a part of the situation but is not going to always be in everyone's scenario. That way if a person has seen a few of the actions or statements that will be listed in a large list they will know that it is for x,y, or z reason and how to approach it. Approaching it won't be just one blanket thing either. It will be a set of things that can be chosen from. Dynamic vs static information is the key to not doing a blanket approach but still being mostly conclusive as possible with as limited information as I and others have about this complex and frustrating scenario of PTSD relationships mostly focused on the disappearing act scenario.

I've got a pretty big set of information in an outline in a word document but am trying to tie up some parts that I don't have a very clear picture of yet. The two different PTSD episode types is something that I can't be the only one that has noticed and thought that there definitely had to be some technical information on it that I just have not found yet.

The other piece of information was the uncommunicated isolation time periods. Time periods I mean by how long the couple was together, how far from the beginning of the relationship the first uncommunicated isolation event happened, how long the isolation period was, approximation of how many actually come back after that sudden isolation, if it is on a cycle and if so how long between isolations and how long they tend to be in a cycle scenario. Basically time periods was the piece of information. Didn't really get anything good on that and doubt I will get anything more concrete other than the synthesis of reading many many many posts on this forum.

Once I get those two pieces concluded with as much resolution as I can, I can move forward on starting the article/post and posting it. Sadly my painful dental situation at the moment is really putting a cramp in that timeline.
 
All mental health disorders exist on a continuum. It's really a spectrum, not a this-or-that.

Yes, this right here is my issue. One person, your sufferer, may have a "cycle" but you cant encapulate that here. We are all on a spectrum and it all varies with therapists or not, support or not, good enviroment or not etc.

I understand the why behind it, and the want to understand behind it but it, being PTSD as a whole...or any mental disorder, doesnt work that way.
 
I've been thinking a lot about the term "PTSD episode"
Since this post is about the term "episode" and what that term is referring to, I am going to expound further on the use of the term.

I'm going to do it bluntly, of the sake of clarity. I do not intend to be negative at all. To answer your topic title question, YES other terminology is much better to use, and not just with the term "episode" but on many of the things you describe.

I can understand why someone would want to lump behaviors into things they can all a "PTSD episode." I can see how supporters want to be able to tell what behavior is due to PTSD and what is due to other things. I also can see that you are trying to sort out how time plays a role, especially from the perspective of someone who doesn't have PTSD.

You can dismiss it all the responses to you as "out of hand" but you are missing WHY the responses are so strong.

Think about that, why are the responses so strong? I believe it is partly because you are lumping too many things together for too diverse a group of people, using too many inaccurate unhelpful descriptions that promote bad stereotypes of PTSD. It also doesn't accomplish what you hope to accomplish - which is a good goal, but needs to be gone about differently.

First off, let's evaluate if "episode" is even the right term to use.

I contend that it is generally NOT a good term to use. My reasons are both personal and scientific/clinical.

Personal:

As a sufferer, I personally cringe when someone calls my behaviors or symptoms an "episode." It feels really invalidating. I have heard "episode" used in many painful contexts, and I have yet to hear episode in a context where the use of that word, "episode" was done in a way that was helpful. I have heard it used in many painfully invalidating ways. "Did you just have another one of your episodes?" or "you were acting irrationally." These are both phrases that have been said to me, and other PTSD sufferers, that were painful to hear. It's personally invalidating. It feels bad.

Clinical/practical:

The term "episode" is very very rarely ever used in clinical literature when talking about PTSD. It is used for other conditions, but trying to lump sets of symptoms into different types of generalized episodes doesn't generally clinically fit for PTSD. People can go through time periods of having PTSD symptoms and then time periods where those symptoms go into remission, but this is usually not marked by outside behavior alone.

There is also already much more precise language to use where people will generally understand what you are referring to a lot more easily.

For example, the first type of "episode" you describe could be more precisely labeled as the behavior of an "angry outburst."

That language is not only more informational and keeps everyone on the same page as to what you are referring to, but it also invites more helpful practical solutions, understanding, and responses. It recognizes the emotion (anger or the "fight" side of the flight or flight response) and the behavior, an outburst.

Using terms like "irrational" to describe an angry outburst in the context of PTSD symptoms is bound to cause more confusion and even possible harm to understanding what PTSD, and is not, to the general public, and especially for supporters.

If someone is suffering from PTSD and has truly irrational behavior, it's important for a supporter to know, that's not PTSD alone.

The angry outburst can seem quite irrational to an outsider, and in that context, carefully explaining that the anger seems to be more than what the situation calls for - this can be helpful to point out. In order to explain that the behavior can be better understood as a disorder of trauma survival responses happening when trauma is over and no longer needed. This is clinically a very different than than a clinically "irrational" response. If we start treating it as an irrational response, then that shuts down solutions and confuses what we are talking about clinically. Since you write that you are trying to help supporters understand what is going on, you need to use language that describes whites going on that is actually accurate.

There are also all the other reasons others have expressed as to why episode and the other language you use is not accurate. It is a spectrum of symptoms, and you can't group them into subcategories like you are.
Tried to define episodes as periods of time with higher concentrations of expressed symptoms within those spans of time whereas the non episode time would be a less symptomatic time but not completely void of symptoms.
What you describe as symptoms are not things a sufferer experiences, but things a supporter sees. Symptoms are not always things that other people see. You are confusing the terms for a behavior and symptom.

I think you understand that a supporter can miss symptoms for awhile until it is too late. What people are trying to explain to you is that this is actually occurring in BOTH the scenarios you describe and affects the "spans of time" of PTSD symptoms that you are trying to determine through your process of "research."

The behavior of an angry outburst can last for a short time. However, if an angry outburst is there, PTSD symptoms are usually there as well, for an extended period of time, even though the angry outburst comes and goes quickly.

What you describe as a PTSD episode lasting a short period of time in scenario 1, as an intense spike in symptoms, like on a stock market chart, is not generally a sign of symptoms of PTSD occurring for short period of time. It's perhaps a steep blip of intense outward behavior that a supporter can notice, but the suffering and symptoms the sufferer has is not actually a steep blip. And you do damage to understanding PTSD and healing from it when you insist on referring to it this way. Sometimes even sufferers think it is this way, but the path towards recovery often involves learning to recognize the slow steady rise of symptoms that occur long before the outward intense blip of behavior that occurs. I have sat through many psychoeducational courses and flat out graduate courses on PTSD, and a big point they drive home is that PTSD sufferers themselves will sometimes feel like their emotions and symptoms go from 0-60. As they heal, they begin to be able to connect to the body sensations, thoughts, and emotions that indicate that their emotional state and risks for outward behaviors were often actually rising at a slower rate, but they didn't notice it until it was at 60, and their stress cup was overflowing...

That's important to recognize, because once someone can see that this is really what is occurring, then there are many more interventions that can be done to prevent the intense spike in outward behavior, when symptoms are slowly climbing towards that spike in behavior.

The slow rise in symptoms that usually occur with an angry outburst are often not noticeable to supporters as well as sufferers themselves. I am going to use some personal examples, but they are similar to experiences many PTSD sufferers describe here on the forums.

When I am struggling with my own symptom/behavior of an angry outburst. I am often suffering from chronic on-going sleep deprivation from nightmares and this increases my chances of the behavior of an outburst. Other times, I have been hungry from not eating due to anxiety, or I am extremely depressed, or experiencing high anxiety from internal or external triggers. Or I could be dissociated and not aware of my feelings until they spill completely over.

The outburst can come and go quickly. But my symptoms have usually been around for months or years prior to the outburst(s), and sometimes even I didn't realize it until I started to feel better.

This is how the short behavior of an angry outburst is not actually a PTSD episode that is short lived in time, even though you are trying to describe it as something that is PTSD symptoms that are short lived in time. (Others have been explaining this already, and this is another attempt to try to describe what you are not yet unerstanding.)

Another example of how an outward behavior someone notices is not always a sign of the length of time that those symptoms are occurring, is dissociation. When I am dissociative, people usually have no idea I am dissociative unless they really know how to see it, even if they have known me for decades and know I have PTSD and I have dissociation. Dissociation is actually considered to be a sign of really bad PTSD symptoms to the point that the brain is so overwhelmed by symptoms that the person can't even be present with themselves or the world.

So not only is the noticeable behavior not a sign on the length of time of a symptom occurring, it's also not always a sign of the depth of suffering and symptoms that are occurring.

There is much more accurate language to use than "episode" when talking about behaviors related to PTSD and the length of time symptoms last. You are not the first (nor the last) person who has tried to understand and summarize these things in broad categories, and few are successful in creating new things clinical folks who have studied PTSD for decades have missed. There is even heated long standing debate about the difference between the groups of symptoms people suffer from when trying to determine if complex PTSD and PTSD are two separate conditions or not. You are likely to get lively debate on this attempt to group symptoms as well. It is what it is. The debate is passionate because you are talking about large groups of extremely diverse people, and there is almost alway push back when lumping such people all together like this.

Furthermore, using accurate language is especially important to consider when you are seeking to post a thread or article for an audience is a group of sufferers and supporters who tend to use more specific language than "episode" about grouping symptoms together.

I also hope you are able to consider that there are a lot of things about PTSD that someone outside of it can not see, but that the sufferer is still suffering from. Everyone here has been trying to help inform you. Dismissing the feedback as you have, referring to thoughtful responses from well educated folks as "out of hand" will not only shut people down to participating in informational discussion of this topic, but it will invite more passionate responses to your uses of language and how you come across on these issues. People have a point there that you are missing and will interfere with reaching your goals.


Edited to add: I hope your dental pain and situation gets better soon. :hug:
 
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It's a bit worrisome that you're approaching this research project in what seems to be a biased fashion with little regard for standard data collection techniques. This approach won't give you an accurate picture as to what is really happening with PTSD sufferers. (Biased in that you aren't soaking up what everyone has to say----you're only accepting opinions/views that support what you want to hear.)

Are you reading published PTSD literature from those well schooled in trauma and PTSD? I fear that you're trying to take a heck of a lot of randomness (this forum) and trying to draw wide sweeping conclusions from the stories you find. Sadly this isn't really going to give you an accurate picture of the real story. We are a self-selecting group and as such our stories will most definitely be skewed in particular directions (on both the sufferer and supporter side).

I'm not sure how writing an article using data that only supports your stance is going to be helpful to anyone. (I'd go so far as to say it could indeed be harmful to future readers of the forum who aren't going to be aware of your data collection techniques and will not realize that the article isn't based on the complete picture.)
 
Since this post is about the term "episode" and what that term is referring to, I am going to expound...

What term do you use for a set of events or phenomenon that is noticeably different from from the rest of a set of events or phenomenon within a timeline if not episode?
 
Justmehere managed to verbalise a lot of the hovering fears I have had when reading this and other similar threads although personally I don't take offence to the term episode). I can totally see your good intention of compiling an article and information that would help you and other supporters. And thereby also help sufferers. The trouble is that as good as your intentions may be I see so many potential real harm situations arising from what you are trying to prove that it is concerning (because it isn't accurate). And more concerning even for me is your inability or lack of willingness to listen to others before continuing on a path.

I think its this lack of willingness to hear others here that are often pretty expert that I find the most concerning. Especially since you are new to understanding PTSD, I'm not sure if its because you believe you know more, whether its possible that you discount those with PTSD because they have it, or if its because you feel attacked when people put other ideas forward and you therefore feel defensive and block all else than what you want to hear. Or is it a misunderstanding issue.

The example of an the angry outburst that you gave is a good example of this. It's really important that both supporters and sufferers not dismiss or lump this in as an episode in the way I think you intend to do (probably with an average spec of how long it is likely to last etc). Doing so could encourage supporters to be enabling and even codependent and could be unhelpful for sufferers in making their lives better and improving symptoms and behaviours. There is also a difference in what one can expect and how much responsibility someone has for their actions when you are in mid flashback or in general fight or flight. In fact, she physically assaulted you and that isn't OK. From what you say it doesn't seem like she was having a flashback.

Healthy relationships, support, and recovery all require a more specific approach and understanding to what is happening and a more complex sets of responsibility and compassion.

I'm sure many supporters crave what you want to provide. In fact, my goodness, if it was possible, sufferers would crave it too. Someone predicting how I am going to react, how long it will be for etc? Fabulous. Sadly not possible.
 
Personally I think using the term episode (although I prefer symptomatic and some others being unwell etc) in general chit chat can be OK. But if you want to start giving advice, guidelines or any type of information about situations then it isn't and you would need to rather describe the specifics. And you would always need the input of the sufferer to have enough information as it isn't possible to know what is happening internally from the outside. Especially in the beginning.
 
What term do you use for a set of events or phenomenon that is noticeably different from from the rest of a set of events or phenomenon within a timeline if not episode?
This question is so broad and unspecific I have absolutely no way of answering.

I would have to know what the phenomenon is, the context, intent, what evidence there is or isn't, the audience, the typical terms already used, relevant history, possible biases, etc, etc.

If you mean to ask what term would I use for examples you describe in this thread, I have already answered that question in my post above to the best of my ability.

By asking that question, you seemed to have missed the point of my response. The problem is beyond a matter of terminology alone.

There are errors in your methods and interpretations of events.

There is a reason why most research studies are usually peer reviewed prior to publication. Since you see this as a research process, consider the feedback you are getting as peer review and try re-reading everyone's responses to you understanding that they are trying to help as your fellow peers on a peer support forum.
 
Example: Sitting on couch sitting next to each other watching a favorite tv show together and laughing and cuddled up together and within a second my PTSD sufferer turns to me and starts berating me with insults while yelling and slapping me and gets up and starts saying horrible and terrifying things. This second set of personality shift lasted roughly 3 hours.

Example: Personality over a period of 3 to 4 weeks goes from loving and chipper to distant, no more love at all, and finding a different person she wants to be with an moves out and in with him and starts binge drinking, abusing ativan and xanax, and almost moving onto the hard stuff like cocaine (which she has always hated with an intense passion and anyone that does it), cutting, and other self destructive things. Stayed moved out and doing that stuff for two weeks. Comes back, gets into trouble at home, gets arrested, goes to jail. Sum total span of time was around 2 months. This time span included blatant and intense short periods at times, for instance the short span of time that she was home, got into trouble, and wen to jail, which was around 1 day of time.

My mother had severe bipolar and this is actually much more what she was like than anything I can identify with myself. I actually had to go run for the Ativan when I read this (lol) because it just hit home too intensely. I'm a freezer (I have freeze reactions) rather than explosive behavior. If I observed this behavior in someone my first thought would be bipolar. Maybe schizophrenia? Everyone is different as has been pointed out already, but I wouldn't think PTSD.
 
@dnp - I actually thought it was a description of much more fitting for something like bipolar disorder too! It was a bit uncanny for me and reminded me of my old job. I used to be a case manager. I would have to review clinical notes all the time. They would describe bipolar and/or schizophrenic clients in a generalized episodic sense, but not for PTSD (or a handful of other conditions.)
 
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