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Accepting respect

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It sounds like a "fawn" response to me...?

Also, like kid's logic in the sense "It's better to have shitty people to cling to, than no one at all"...?

I do understand that it's scary to cut negative people out of our lives, or to at least tell them that we will do so if they don't stop being disrespectful...

But... :)

There's a theory (which I heavily subscribe to!!) that if our life is "full" of crap people, then there is no "room" for good people!!

And so by making "room" by removing crap people (which can feel scary and lonely at first) what we are doing is making the ROOOOM for the nice people to come and enter our lives... :)

Also... I dunno if I count as a "nice person" :D but... when I choose who to be friends with or not, I look at the other people that person surrounds themselves with... If I see them surrounding themselves with crappy friends, then I think "Oh, they must have poor judgement" or "Oh they must like crappy drama in their life" and then I steer clear of them.

So not only is there "no room" for nice people, when your life is full of crap people, but you are additionally also sending a signal to everyone "I like being surrounded by crappy people" and then others may tend to act accordingly...?
 
What we accept as normal, because it is normal?
That's the thing. It has been my normal forever.
You'd be surprised at how I allowed others to treat me in the past.

I think I never liked it but froze in my response.
Nowadays I kinda weasel myself out of the situation, but I would like to be strong and fierce and tell people to their faces that their behavior in unacceptable. :)

All in due time I suppose.
Maybe when I'm elderly.
 
Maybe when I'm elderly.
Haha, I hope you get to this point before, but I absolutely love my old patients who are like "babez, I'm 97, if youd asked me when I was 30 I'd go along with it to keep you happy, but I'm done pleasing other people!" And I'm literally always stood like "um.. I literally only want to give you your regular medication, but okay.."
I can't wait til I'm 97 and give no shits :P

But yeah. I do think it's practice, like you kinda do what you think you're supposed to do and it feels weird and awkward but then it gets more normal. I'm really glad you at least recognise you deserve good things though!
 
Lol yeah, I want to get there before too.
I wish I could muster up the strength and just lay it out in a simple way to them.
I think there's also a balance of "is it worth it?" vs "In fact I give less shits than I'm think I do". Lol
I'm really glad you at least recognise you deserve good things though!
Its been a long battle.
 
@Sietz

I think you got a lot of responses around this issue, but I would like to offer my experience and hope you find something or nothing at all.

When it comes a long pattern of relating to others, it is easier to say it is others and it is really hard to own it because you have been like this for so long so you truly believe it is them; but I will differ that is not always the case. None of these people sit around and say hmm let us treat Sietz with no respect for her self agency and boundary crossed and take advantage of. I doubt they do that behind your back. So each one of them to act the same, something must be said that you are giving a permission (only you have the power). But you need to acknowledge what is it you are gaining from it. Usually and ultimately it kind of looks like love but it is not. It is time investment. You know these people for so long, so you do not who you are truly without them. You are afraid to find you do not like yourself and you may have deserve this all along – this is not your destiny though.

You could wait until they all die or move or leave you or you could take an unprecedented risk with the one person you feel most safe with and probably the person you think their love for you is real even under all this hubris. I think that is your mother.

In my opinion, your mother loves you and you love her, but this dynamic is the source of you not feeling respected. You do not have it internalized. You cannot force it intellectually, you tried that already. Does not work. You cannot just go and buy self-esteem, you need to do something heroic to gain that.

You need to become different person few times and risk something.

If I were you, and I truly believed I feel safe with mommy and I am convinced mommy’s love is real (only these conditions met):

I would stand up to mommy in a kind way to also teach her that her way of talking to you is no longer acceptable or acceptable anywhere else in the world.

Unless mommy is dotage, senile, dementia, or has the psychological of a worm, you need to change the exact place where you picked this trait, part, or internalization and that is with mommy.

Next time mommy says something that you feel in your body is intruding to your boundary (and you will feel something when others poke your boundary – if you do not feel that is another post). Hold that feeling, touch if you can where it is landing in your body, journal it, but most important – try to name the emotion specifically (cannot be triggered that is too general). And then you can say next time, mom, I respect you but I want you to stop talking like that – use real example or using that word or saying this – VERY SPECIFIC. AND YOU MUST HAVE HER FULL ATTENTION AND FULL EYE CONTACT. finish this with saying how this hurt your feelings, upset you, crossed your boundaries, felt of disrespect. Whatever that is, you need to state what she needs to stop and how it makes you feel and what you want her to do – which is to stop. It is cumbersome but you gotta start doing this. You cannot skip this mountain and found the ocean. it is mechanical until it becomes automatic and subconscious in your approach of others.

She needs to see in your eyes what you are saying. If she interrupts you, which is another tactic, you wait let her finish, and continue to state what she said, how you felt, and what you want her to do about it. Offense. Your feeling. Action.

She will back down if your words and your stand match. If she does not, then plan b.

Whenever mom acts out (that is what she is doing), then you stop what you are doing and tell her, Mom I said this many times, You cannot use that word against me ….again same thing above. If no change, you leave everything as it is and say, OK mom, I am taking a walk in the park and hope you think about what just happened. You do this often and you train her like a dog. You do not reward her with love when she is cutting you down. As long as you are separating her relationship and love from respecting you, you will continue to do the same outside. Why would you not?


BTW, I have the opposite reaction in people over the years. Respect will be given but I was always making others feel a bit of fear or intimidation or some other fear-based feelings. I have been told, I am blunt, say it like it is, intimidating, intense, strong, blahahah you get the drift. They sound like compliments but hmm believe me they were covert truths of like can you be normal, nice, soft, take it easy…LOL. I used to ignore them thinking if you are feeling intimidated by me a woman (esp. to men), that is your problem? Maybe you were not a man enough…walking away laughing ghoulish!

But life has a funny way of teaching us a lesson and whenever we ignored it, ooh girl, does life just goes out of its way to deliver its message in the most inopportune moment in one’s life.

Does my intensity slip now and then, of course it does. Do I know when it is happening. yes most of the time. Do I have full control over it. Sometimes and often but all the time. But if I fail, I let it go and I am not hard on myself.

I have to become conscious of my voice, my tone, my glare/stare, my body posture, my way of talking the words I use in order to overcome. You need a serious way of observing yourself. There is no easy way. I had to become super aware of my physicality as well as my psychological before I could just relax and be rather than intense and all. But I am not saying I cannot be intense…when I am under stress, my intensity shows it is ugly rear but I have been on this rodeo so I am not intimidated by this part! (-;

As you gain respect by just standing up to your mom without you feeling guilty or scared or anxious, you will just see, that feeling goes global. All of sudden you may notice a friend asking you something and you would just like your mom, say, that is OK sally, I do not think I can do that for you this time. No apology. No hiding. No meanness. Just calm and collected (which you will not have problem since you have been too nice all these years). And people will be surprised and maybe push back a bit but ultimately, only when you show respect for you, do others show you the same.

Stand up to the only person who loves you and you feel safe with. Mommy or therapist. But I would vote more for mommy – it is more realistic but mommy will try to keep her weaknesses on picking on you too so you will need a bit of battle to learn. Therapy can do it too but it will take much longer because of the lack of tension


Life has a funny way of training us in a speedy way!
at the end in a funny way, you may not lose anyone but find you actually enjoy your friends and they do too.
 
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Thank you for the thoughtful post @grit :) Makes a lot of sense

I do have an easier time putting up boundaries with my mother (or mommy as you so endearingly called her :roflmao), but not so much with other people.

With a particularly disrespectful friend I had to lay a boundary of not being "too much on me" during suicidal times or I would break the friendship because I couldn't take the dysfunction and only made the SI stronger. This same friend acts as thought psychosis was my fault, keeps asking about my traumas but can't stand to listen to them, plays the "Sietz is unable to perform at her job and I gotta save her" card way too often (we have the same job, but I have my own business and she works for a company)... well, it's disrespectful to say the least. I simply don't know how to deal with this particular brand of persumptuousness.
I think it's best if I just walk away without explaining why.
 
It seems feeling disrespectful is not a global thing in your life. The dynamic with this friend can be layered and maybe there is a growth opportunity there. It may not be about respect or boundary but a deeper issue. Have you discuss this with a therapist?
 
I have, she said people have their time to be in our lives and that we usually grow out of the friendship.

Other than these particular instances she is a good friend, and that confuses me and keeps me from walking away.

I don't know what I have to gain from this friendship, honestly, other than company and feel like I'm needed in someone's life.
 
We can't realistically expect something from others, that we do not give ourselves. When we have self respect we carry ourselves into the world with body launguage and eye contact that conveys self respect. People are less likely to test that boundary. But there will always be stupid , rude people , who, no matter what you say, will not change them. Those are the ones I walk away from.
 
Thanks @ladee.
I'm here trying to figure out how I convey myself to her. Maybe I show myself as weak and she feels the need to further that assumption? She has seen me in pretty tough times.
I don't know, I think it's more of your second option...
 
Thank you Sietz for your comments and really interesting post.

this is really an interesting angle. I am surprised your therapist concluded on this issue so easy or maybe you can only write so much about a long discussion.

I feel needing a company and being needed are extremely strong drives to blind us to be the company of a wrong person...regardless of trauma. And this is very true for even intimate relationships, maybe even more so.

I have, (had) it is still in flex phase, a friend whom I struggled over the years. She has been in therapy for over 30yrs and I mentioned this because now that I have been in therapy myself, I am realising those in therapy for a long time can gain some valuable information about relationships and psychology. and they can choose to use this information positively or negatively. It is like the expression give a man a power and you will see the real of him or whatever that expression supposed to. Therapy gives certain education and tools that one can use good or bad. I believe this friend used her knowledge to manipulate me and encourage my negative/dark side that I was not aware of at the time. The weird thing was though I felt the struggle but just thought I am not a good person anyways so must be me. Maybe I was jealous of her or envious or something. Even though looking back, I had no idea what I was feeling...just that I was drained after spending time with her.

Since I got married, our relationships got more strained because she was still trying to provoke my negative traits but this time, I was sort of waking up, feeling safe with my husband, sort of unleashed my radar and all of sudden I started to see her different. She also did this to couple other friends and lost them all after they got married. This friend was chronically single all her life.

Long story short, I started to wake up a bit and notice her behaviour . I stopped being easily manipulated. This changed our relationship from friendship to basically casual meaning only in groups. No more hanging out alone. When I went to therapy, I learned a lot about how I was projecting all my good parts to friends/family over the years and that is why they were my friends, they were my life lines and unless I own my own parts, I would be forever depending on them for even having empathy.
it is hard to explain. But when I recognized my envy toward her (and honestly there is nothing logic about this envy), I saw her for who she is, a very manipulative person,and basic narcissistic and I was her biggest supplies and when I stopped falling for it, I was down graded to group meeting. It hurt but trust me. I am so happy I am not around her anymore.

In a weird way, an old friend of hers and I became closer. We do not talk about her but I know this friend was bitten by the old friend too.

My long point is people in our lives teach us who we are every day so if a person is strengthening a weak and a core wound, the cost is that much higher. Around this friend, I was made to feel the craziest person in the world. She kept me to keep her personality in tact and toss her ugly parts to me and I carry them for her. in admiration of her. I am bad and she is good. for so long that now I chuckle as I write this because it is hard to close my eyes back again and ever get into that kind of relationships.

life is too short.
 
Yes, maybe I do project my own stuff onto her. Good and bad. The envy might be the other way around, all of a sudden she's very interested in studying what I'm studying.
She does the same with her boyfriend, doesn't have opinions on her own, it's all by osmosis.

There's other stuff coming to me now that I rather not say on a public forum, but I'm starting to realize she really isn't a good worthwhile person.

I'm going to walk away from her and maybe by doing that I'll be respecting myself enough to convey that to other people.
 
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