Childhood Anxious Attachment Here: Like Nails On A Chalkboard

[Kintsugi]

As is the thread title, I expect this post to be extremely tangled and confusing and all around not very easily understood. I mean, just look at that first sentence. It's like I just designed the most horrible sentence structure possible. :wtf:

I was going to write this post anonymously, but I just said f*ck it. It's too much effort to disguise my writing style, anyway.

In literature, there's a term called "craft writing," which is where a writer writes about writing. Sometimes this is obvious, and sometimes it's not (I feel like Eminem does what I'd call 'craft rapping' pretty subtly, for instance), but in any case, it's totally meta, right? Writing about writing.

Here on the forum, we have something similarly reflective, I think, where we post about posting. Like, people post threads about being a member here on the forum rather than always posting about their real lives. This is a pet peeve of mine, and yet here I am, engaging in this behavior.

But, I'm going to engage in this phenomenon because I am absolutely aware that some things going on here have been jamming my PTSD buttons, and I want to talk about that, not about the posts so much.

Okay, so, back to the title of this thread. I so named it because that pet peeve of mine--posting about posting--has been getting right under my skin recently, and I've been examining why, and I've also been realizing that it isn't necessarily posting about posting (craft posting, if you kindly will ;)) that bothers me. It's the content of those posts and the presumptions I make about them, which is that these posts are a ploy for attention.

And, like I just said, this applies to a lot of content here, not just the ones that are actually about our community.

And it's not the fault of those posting the content. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with reaching out for attention. Shit, that's why we have the lovely "I Need Attention!" thread. It happens. We have needs. We reach out to get those needs met. Attention is a need. I get that.

BUT I think sometimes I interpret content as being such an impassioned grab for attention that I catch a whiff of anxious attachment patterns. I sense that these posts are coming out of a deep sense of anxiety and a maladaptive need for constant affirmation, approval, and reassurance.

That very well may be completely off the mark, but what I know for sure is that I have a completely visceral reaction to perceiving this, and it has been really bothering me, and I am seeking to better understand why.

My attachment pattern seems to be disorganized with a slight bias toward anxious. It's really difficult to say, because, in disorganized fashion, I really flip flop from "Get the f*ck away from me" to "Please don't ever leave me," and in order to ever reach that latter catergory, I have to really, really like you, which doesn't happen often. It's just that, when it happens, that anxious shit will take the f*ck over more often than not, leaving the avoidant stuff to occur in bursts and otherwise be metted out to everyone else.

I don't know if that makes any sense at all. I suck at visual stuff, and I actually took the time to try and draw my T a diagram categorizing the people in my life according to my level of closeness/willingness to be close rather than to avoid as much as possible. It gets confusing.

Anyway, I've been trying to take apart what it is about these posts that make me squirm so badly. I've been thinking that the perception I have that these posts are attention-seeking is bothersome to me on a gut level because I was brought up to firmly believe that the only way to garner love/attention/affection was by being out-of-the-way, low-maintenance, and by not having needs I couldn't fill by myself.

Accordingly, something deep within me reads this content and simply thinks, "You are DOING it WRONG!"

The worst part, I think, is that from my point of view, the people doing the alleged attention-seeking are actually getting positive and compassionate attention, and that seems to enrage me the same way seeing misbehaved (in my wonky opinion) children receiving positive and compassionate attention from adults. It just drives me absolutely batty, and I can't wrap my head around what I'm seeing.

So, this is a really long, drawn-out post about me and my avoidant attachment/distorted perception of "good" I garnered in my childhood. Which, by the way, is why I ultimately landed this in childhood, even though it could have probably gone in several different forums.

In thinking about this, I've been really wondering if other people with similar experiences/perspectives have visceral reactions to this sort of thing.

I know it sounds like I'm just hating on other members here, and in a sense, I am, but I'm cognizant that it isn't about those people; it's about me trying to sort out my own weird shit.

 

[Ava Jarvis]

(I wonder if there is something wrong with me that I seem to identify with like 50% of member posts. I mean, I could blame it on a few decades of PTSD and familiar behavior patterns and symptoms having enough time to crop up, but it still is weird. Anyways.)

I think this is a really good crack at looking at how you view the world from this specific aspect, Simon. It's really hard to get to this level. That you can do so is rad and awesome.

And I get where you're coming from. I used to feel similarly, too—ideas that drawing attention is bad and dishonest, don't these people know that real achievement/enlightenment comes from suffering in silence and still getting ahead, nobody deserves compassion, especially not people morally disgusting enough to seek it. This is all wrong and twisted, and a product of what my father trained me to believe. It is not reality—and you get that too.

I dunno if it helps, but it's been about ten years since I've felt that way. So about 2/3rds through my PTSD tenure thus far, I got kinder. At first it was way weird—like, I'd be kinder in thought about others, but still have this awful double standard for myself. I don't know if that's a consistent second stage or not. That lasted until a year ago, and I think my development in this area accelerated because I was (a) ready for understanding friends (I find it helps to be understanding of others before accumulating understanding friends, otherwise one is more likely to pick up people who reinforce your beliefs), and (b) I found some. I am just starting to be kinder to myself.

Still, I think, if one saturates one's experiences with those of other people in pain, and see their battles and struggles, that this twisted set of judgements drops away regardless of whether you find like souls or not. First the judgement drops for others, and then last for yourself.

Knowing the judgement is twisted, and being able to drop that judgement, they are two different things.

I think you're well on your way towards the next step, if we want to view it as a next step, if it is plausible that this is consistently a next step.

I have no idea if this post was useful in any way to you. I hope it was.

 

[Kintsugi]

It is difficult for me to really see gaining more compassion towards others and myself as a goal, because I still have such a "yuck" response to that idea, but I get where you're coming from.

I am noticing all of these undesirable things about myself, and I want to change them, but it's difficult for me to even embrace wanting to change them, because they freak me out.

For instance, I am not a warm person towards my friends in general. I am to a point, but sometimes I just suck at emotions in general. I have a very quiet type of intimacy with most people.

Let's use my local best friend as a reference point. Here are some things I've noticed about my interactions with her and her family that make me disappointed in myself, yet I feel powerless (at this moment) to change.

1) Recently, she had a miscarriage. Both of us have experienced terminating a pregnancy--though in extremely different situations--and know how horrible it is on this vague spiritual level that is impossible to describe to those who haven't experienced it. She didn't tell me about it for several days, and I hadn't seen her recently. When I found out, I immediately went to go see her, wanting to be there for her. I wanted to show up and hug her and tell her how sorry I was and let her know I was always there for her if she needed me. But I didn't. I showed up, and I made awkward chit-chat. I just did not know how to hug her. I didn't know how to tell her I felt for her. I just froze.

2) When I was at her house a couple of weeks ago, her 5-year-old was sleeping in bed. She implored me several times to go into his room and just kiss him on the forehead, because he is so attached to me (and, truthfully, I him), but I couldn't do it. I actually did do this last night, but it was really a hard thing for me. Showing physical affection, especially to a child, just completely freaks me out.

3) My best friend tells me she loves me often, and I return the sentiment, but I may as well be fumbling an earthworm out of my mouth the way I awkwardly, squimishly spit out the words. It is so difficult for me. I've been getting better at this, because one of my client's mothers, who is very elderly, always tells me she loves me, and I tell her we love her too. Still, all I want to do after saying those words is self harm. It makes my skin crawl.

I want to change these things, yet articulating how I want to change these things gives me deep feelings of shame, self-loathing, and disgust.

Similarly, I wish I weren't such a hateful person, and I wish I did not see others reaching out for attention in such a bad light. And I don't always feel that way. But the responses to someone expressing needs... that will get me every time. All the compassion and hugs and back-patting type language... :wtf: I just can't tolerate it.

It really makes me feel like a shell of a human sometimes, the way I see others showing warmth and feel sick over it.

Oh, ETA, I really, really desperately crave attention sometimes, but I feel unable to express it more often than not, and even if it is presented to me in my moment of need, I respond in what seems to be typical of someone with disorganized attachment: I push away. A few months ago, I was crying, and someone hugged me in exactly the way I needed to be hugged, and I pushed them away and covered my face like a child straight out of the Strange Situation studies. :sorry:

 

[Ava Jarvis]

Wanting to change is a huge first step. But really, you aren't a shell of a human. You are totally a human, and you are having human reactions. To be human doesn't always mean that we are warm and cuddly. Sometimes it's quite the opposite.

So you're having totally human reactions! Is great and awesome. Now for the changing bit...

I generally immerse myself in fiction—of any medium—to achieve change. Fiction is cool, like: it lets you look inside at least one character's head. Not all mediums do this equally often—literature and comics does it most often, film and TV least often.

It's easier to feel for fictional people sometimes than it is for IRL people, because real life moves so fast and doesn't let you look inside other people's heads.

Plus, fiction is training grounds for the mind, pretty much literally (there are studies). Fiction lets these mirror circuits in the brain practice feeling for others, for instance. These circuits rely on something to mirror—this is how we learn behaviors and attitudes and beliefs.

I am a big believer in Fiction Moves the World Inside Your Head.

I recommend a diet of Terry Pratchett books to start out with. Do not start with his first three Discworld books. The Watch series is generally nice to start out, as is the Witches series, because they feature two protags that are highly judging—Vimes for the Watch, Esme Weatherwax for the Witches. Don't worry, they're awesome cool and are good people, and they develop (slowly). In the way that Batman is good people. They're not Superman Boy Scouts in outlook, is what I'm saying. You might like Susan in the Death series, and possibly also Death himself.

 

[Sideways]

Same reaction: Wha? You can't see that was such an obvious grab for attention? The ol' Reverse Psychology "I know I'm not loved" statement so that everyone will leap in with "No, No, really we DO love you", and everyone's buying that??

Different source: my sister, BPD, used to do it ALL the time when we were kids, and the thing that irritated me wasn't that she was getting the attention, it was that she was manipulating the way she got it. She was right, she did need the world to pay more attention to what was going on, but she'd use this strategy to not only control when she got attention, but what was done with it. So ahe got attention for her great grades, but not her patently obvious anorexia.

She's BPD, but I've been watching her manipulate attention like that since we were tiny. Since we were abused.

I have trouble giving attention. I have trouble receiving attention. And maybe it's just jealousy. But it irks me, especially when it's obvious, and especially when the obvious response ("Of course we still love you") seems to miss the point ("Why do you need confirmation, again, that we love you?").

Is it a problem with me? Or them? Both? Both probly. But it definitely started when I was little.

 

[Kintsugi]

I like Terry Pratchett. I'm a big fan of Mort. :D

I've actually been balls deep in anime lately, ever since my last "Oh shit" event this year (so, like, 4 weeks? 5?).

It is probably important to note, I realized while I was re-reading my first post, that part of why this shit bothers me so much is very likely because my brother (primary abuser) was extremely attention-seeking and was rewarded for his insane trantrums (that I assume, in his 30s, are still going strong), whereas I was basically punished for being a good child. And it is not a secret that I was punished for being the good child. At all. I am only now coming to terms with the fact that a lot of my anger and emotional problems in general are rooted in the fact that my mother took out all of her negative feelings toward my brother on me, even though I (nearly) never warranted such negative feelings myself.

 

[Ava Jarvis]

Ah, the siblings part is important, for both of you. I have noticed that a lot of parents treat their children unequally. No idea why. It happens a lot though.

I never had siblings, but I tended to view classmates as DIRE competition. It's not the same at all though.

And yay, Terry Pratchett fist bump! Just keep on keeping on with exploring fiction. I believe it does help.

(Gods, I never did analyze Pratchett's portrayal of PTSD in a protagonist in one of his middle-late period books. I wrote a review of it way back when. It was one of the best ones I had ever run across. (And I did a little series on one of Macmillan Publishing's imprint website, specifically Tor, analyzing this sort of thing.))

I go to sleep now. I wish I could talk more. I dunno if I am somewhat annoying y'all anyways with my happy happy joy joy and "go team!" attitude. :D I used to not believe in confirmation/affirmation/validation. But now I do—for others and for myself. Negative reinforcement leaves ten times stronger an impression than positive reinforcement (there are studies) so it makes sense that increasing positive reinforcement is way to go.

I will validate people forever and forever if that's what it takes. ^_^

 

[Sideways]

Clever strategy to make create a criticism-free space: throw enough tantrums and it becomes too precarious for anyone to criticise the perso - the perception is they're too fragile. The silent child, on the other hand (you) is perceived as the stoic.

But you get used to the stoic role. What you're describing with your friend - you're now being stoic despite yourself. That's learned behaviour, another coping strategy from childhood that's no longer helpful. So you have to unlearn it...

 

[EveHarrington]

Hating on people?

Nah---

I confess, I really dislike the hating on/hater sort of terminology as it's gotten to the point where if we don't "like" everything in a social media type fashion----dislike or even dare to question----that we're thrown into the extreme category of hater-dom.

Don't get me wrong----there is a lot of hateful stuff in this world (and yeah, it would be nice if it all just died), but I try to reserve the word "hate" for that which truly is closer to that end of the spectrum.

You, "hating on" people? Maybe you don't like their actions/behavior/words but aren't we all entitled to a set of likes and dislikes? You've recognized it as a Simon thing and you want to work on it----taking steps in a positive direction, and not "hating on" people IMHO.

I'm glad you posted as you. I understand wanting to post as anonymous though. But this way you get to come forward and say hey, this is me and this is what I'm struggling with. I've found that there can be a great feeling of catharsis in simply coming out publicly with a struggle and not trying to hide it anymore (or hide behind----whatever). I'm not sure if this applies to you, just throwing it out as a possibility. You're a member as well as a mod-----maybe it's just me, but I like it when mods post on the forum as it lets me see a very real side of them as opposed to just seeing an authority figure. I hope you continue to feel comfortable posting as Simon. :)

 

[mary1979]

Yeah, I tend to have the same initial 'wtf' reaction to anyone who posts complaining that this site isn't meeting their 'needs'

However unlike you, I usually dont think so much about the attention seeking aspect (sometimes, yeah) of it, more the lack of personal accountability.

Like, you want a bunch of strangers who are here because of their own problems to meet your often unattainable needs?

Sure, I LOVE the support I feel from this place, but expect it? Even demand it?
Come on mate, we are all in our own messed up state here, and everyone already gives all they can.

And on the attention seeking side, same kind of feeling, this is the interwebs, and as a rule anywhere else if you ask for attention, you'll get it, but about 80% of the time it will be negative attention and abuse that you'll get. For being a twat in the first place.
(we are super lucky and somewhat spoiled here in that the mods ensure that this doesn't happen here)

Guess in the end all those posting about posting posts are a reflection of how safe people feel here, like they are par of a family.

 

[shimmerz]

I have trouble giving attention. I have trouble receiving attention.

This is a conundrum. Whether we like it or not, we need attention to survive. Remember the Romanian children who were fed bottles via mechanical means? Demanding attention is one of the first survival issues that infants need to resolve. 'I need food. NOW.' Mess that one up with a neglectful mother.... a sister or brother who tries to steal your feeding time with various antics and the attention concept may well be screwed forever.... until we decide to do something about it ourselves to get more balanced.

Is there any kind of attention seeking that is allowed? If the house is on fire, can you scream help? Expect the neighbour to listen? What if there is a problem at work. Can you go to your boss/supervisor? Can you call a friend and let them know you just need to talk? There are varying degrees of 'needing'.

 

[Kintsugi]

It's interesting that you bring up those levels of needing, @shimmerz, because one of the themes in my nightmares is never getting help. I call 911, and they tell me they can't help me. I beg my mother for help, and she either a) says she isn't listening b) laughs or c) tells me to stop telling lies. All this happens in the context of me being actively assaulted, often by my brother, but sometimes by nameless men.

Recently, I had a truly nauseating nightmare, and when I called the police, they told me (as usual) that they couldn't help. Except this time, I demanded that they help me, and I harangued them until they agreed. My T thinks it's significant that I finally said, "No, really, you must help me."