Assumptions On Campus

[Orglethorp]

Alright, can I rant for a moment? As some of you might know, I'm heavily involved in the start of "Greek life" at my university and in my province in general (by Greek life, I'm referring to fraternities, sororities and other Greek-lettered groups with a philanthropy focus), and as the president of my sorority and the director of communications for the Greek-Lettered Council, I liaise with a lot of other students groups and representatives within the campus community. Mostly it has been a great experience, even when the people I'm meeting with don't share my views, but one group that has consistently annoyed me to no end is the Women's Resource Centre.

Their attitude toward Greek groups and such is horrible, and I appreciate that they're entitled to their opinion, but their reasoning is so closed-minded and just plain stupid. They don't support fraternities because they're buying in to the Hollywood myth that all frat boys are sexist, womanizing pigs (I wouldn't accuse a single member of our local fraternity of such things!), and they don't want women on campus to be endangered or feel endangered. They don't support sororities because they think that their own organizations makes us redundant. They support equality on campus and think that "gender" is not as solid a concept as many people around here might think (true), and they like challenging gender stereotypes (great!), but at the same time they're very gender-exclusive themselves. Men cannot be a part of the resource centre in any way, nor is there a single square inch of the physical resource centre space on campus where men are welcome. I cannot wrap my mind around that sort of thinking. It's too extreme in the wrong direction, if you ask me. Besides, this is my third university, but it's the first I've heard of where men are completely excluded from the resource centre. In fact, the centre on campus at my first school had two spaces. The first space, which had the outdoor access, was open to anyone who needed a safe place, and it was only the space further into the centre that was strictly for women (in terms of identity, not just born sex). That's how I feel it should be; particularly since there's no men's equivalent on campus.

I also constantly get the sense from what I'm hearing these ladies say, what they stand for, and their reasoning behind their judgments of other groups on campus is that they seem to assume that all the ladies on campus who don't see their point of view are only disagreeing with them because we've all had wonderful, rosy, peaceful lives. I get the impression that the see someone like me who is in favour of sororities, who enjoys the company of the frat boys, and who doesn't 100% agree with the resource centre must obviously come from a wonderful family, had a bright, cheery childhood and have never been hurt by anyone. I get the feeling that they think women like me must not have been through anything if we don't see their views. I feel like they (and others on campus) assume that since I'm a sorority girl and since I'm helping the fraternity, I must be some sort of slut with low standards and that I have no reason to hate/fear/distrust men.

Seriously, I feel like telling them exactly what I've lived through. I'm a survivor of incest and domestic violence. I have been sexually assaulted by a partner. I have been physically assaulted by a stranger. I have been betrayed by my (former) closest friend in the worst possible way. I have had a stalker. I know what it's like to be the supporter of a friend who has just been beaten or raped. I know what it's like to loose a friend to suicide. I know what it's like to hold the hand of a loved one who is just hours from death. I have every right and reason in the world to see strangers in a negative light because of what I've been through, to distrust men in general, and to shy away from association with groups that do admittedly carry a mixed/negative social stigma - but I don't. I feel like that fact that I don't leads people like those ladies (and others) to assume that I've never experienced any of that, and that I'm too pure and naive to understand, or that I would acknowledge that their views are correct if I truly have experienced all these things.

Alright, that was long! End rant.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Rant away!

I agree with much of what you've said.

I was involved with women's groups when in college. (Read....pro-female, pro-feminist, and I hate to say it, but even anti-male).

I stopped my support of such causes as I feel that they have very exclusive rather than inclusive attitudes. We are female and as such should be rallying around each other and supporting each other, differences and all. However, much of the time this isn't the case.

On my campus there was a movement to change the wording from "women are raped" to "men rape women". I was pretty much out at that point. (I am a female who was sexually abused by a female.) Their thinking left no room for me, or for any sexually abused males. Yes, they cared about women being raped, but they put it in terms of women VS men and in reality it's people VS a problem. This is just one of my frustrations with pro-women's groups. Don't get me wrong; they do a lot of good. I just wanted to say that this attitude of exclusiveness and "our ideas are right while any deviation is looked down upon" is not exclusive to your campus.

You're doing a lot of good work. Don't stop just because one group doesn't see eye to eye with you!

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

I wonder what they do with people who are transgender or transsexual. Have you asked or talked with anyone at your university about it? Maybe there is a reason? A past sexual assault on campus for example.

 

[Eric23]

I went to college in the early 80's and I had to interact with the Greeks personally and professionally. I never had any indication that they did any philanthropy, the only sense I ever got was they were about parties, boys, and girls. To make matters worse they did not have separate housing and I watched the floor on my dorm turn into a frat house as members of one fraternity starting moving into many of the rooms. With no consideration for the regular students. The sororities were even worse, I was in a relationship with a girl in a sorority and she was under pressure from some of the officers to end the relationship because I was not a greek. I was confronted by one of her "sisters" about this and I verbally ripped the "sister" apart.

As the President of your sorority and the head of communications for the Greek society you have the ability to crack down on the bullying that Greeks engage in. To me Greeks were the same as the kids who bullied me in middle and high school. They had safety in numbers, no one believed that these good citizens were the problem and that I was over sensitive.

If you want to get a clear picture as to how the rest of the student body feels about Greeks conduct a survey of the general student population, excluding Greeks, and see what the results tell you.

While I'm glad you found a group that helps you cope with your past, not everyone thinks that this solution works for them.

 

[Orglethorp]

I sorry that your experience with Greeks was like that. That's certainly not what any of the three existing groups up here are like, nor is it something that national and international authorities like the Panhellenic Council (sororities) and Interfraternity Council (fraternities) allow with their affiliated members. This is also exactly why we've established the Greek-Lettered Council. The GLC is a resource for Greek groups and on-affiliated students on campus alike, but it's also a sort of governing body, if you will. Groups wanting our help/support/resources have to toe the line, and conducting actual philanthropy efforts is just one of the requirements. There are also currently no active romantic relationships between the three groups at the moment. Add to all of this that the university itself has a very strict zero-tolerance policy on hazing. I completely understand that there are places where the Hollywood image of Greeks isn't far from the truth, but it's not true here.

 

[Eric23]

I'd still recommend that you survey the general population of the students and see how they perceive Greeks. There is a difference between what you think the Greeks are like and what the majority of the students think or know what Greeks are. I've always been a firm believer that data not appearances is the final word. If you really want to find out why the women's center and others have issues with Greeks you need to do some research.

 

[Eleanor]

Go get 'em Oglethorp and way to rant!

There is, as I have had numerous occasions to observe, no guarantee of immunity from being a jerk. Jerks seems to be able to adopt the garb of any society, culture and ideology. No set of beliefs makes one immune from jerk-hood. Only consciousness, compassion and good character can do that.

Two (mostly tongue in cheek) thoughts: First: You might invite said women's center denizens over to watch Legally Blond Two. :D:devilish:

Second: You might, with the other greeks, organize a "preventing gender violence and bigotry" fair/workshop/conference (including some info on violence toward men, transexuals and reverse discrimination as well) and then ask if they'd like to contribute? Who knows, it could be a "teachable moment" for them!

 

[Eric23]

I've noticed you've used the phrase "Hollywood myth" when referring to fraternities and sororities. Outside of college this might be a valid statement this might be a valid statement. On a college campus its not a question of the Hollywood myth, rather its the view and impressions of students who come into contact with Greeks on a daily basis. They are not dealing with mythology, they are dealing with reality.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I agree with much of what Eric says. It's not so much of a Hollywood myth. I went to a BIG party school. There was definitely a bad vibe between the Greeks and non-Greeks. Think about this. Most people don't go to big Greek schools so they can do good deeds. It's so they can party party party. You go to a "little" Greek school, so undoubtedly your Greek experience will be different. And the truth is that almost all Greek frats and sororities officially ban hazing, but everyone knows it still happens because the higher ups just ignore it and the lower downs go along with it just because they want to belong.

 

[Orglethorp]

I understand what you two are saying, and I definitely appreciate the input, but I'm wondering if we're seeing a difference between regions or even countries rather than just particular schools here. With the exception of the University of Alberta, I have not heard of hazing taking place in a properly organized and affiliated Greek organization anywhere in Canada in the past 7 years. That's how long I've been a university student. I've also been a student in multiple provinces, and now that I am a part of a national sorority (national meaning we have chapters across the country), I have contacts involved in Greek life across the country who I do talk to. I specify properly organized and affiliated Greek organizations, because groups do not have to become affiliated with governing bodies such as the Panhellenic and Interfraternity Councils in order to call themselves a fraternity or sorority. Those governing bodies can and do suspend and ban organizations that violate their constitution (which includes zero hazing). Additionally, every single active Greek chapter here in this province does report to other, older chapters and we are all (coincidentally) receiving visits from national board members this summer. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not that the negative connotations around Greek life isn't deserved in some places, but rather that it is not deserved here, and we've done nothing to suggest otherwise.

We do have a very large support network on campus, and we have been reaching out to the general student population. We are blown away every single day by the number of students we have who are not only in favour of our recognition on campus, but they'd like to help out and get involved once we are officially recognized. This is coming in from students and professors alike.

Most people don't go to big Greek schools so they can do good deeds.

True, but I never said anyone did.
I'm also not saying that we don't party, because we certainly do. The difference between our parties and the sort of Greek party you might see in the movies is that if we're hosting the party, we're not drinking, and the profits are being donated. Anything else you want to say about our parties are probably true of the parties thrown by every other organization affiliated with the school who choose to throw parties at a venue that serves alcohol. Keep in mind, this is St. John's, Newfoundland. We're famous for George Street - 2 city blocks filled exclusively with pubs, clubs and bars, making it the most densely packed pub/bar location in North America. Us holding parties, dry or not, and rowdy or not, makes no difference to student or city life here.


I feel like this thread is getting very off topic. My affiliation with Greek life and the novelty of Greek life on this campus is the reason why I've come into contact with people like the Women's Centre representatives. I was not intending to comment on the opinions of the student population on Greek life, beyond one particular resource centre's ironically sexist opinion of the sort of girls who choose to be in sororities. I posted this topic to discuss people making assumptions about what I personally have and have not experienced based solely on my broad-topic opinions on poorly defined issues.

 

[Eric23]

Then let me be topic specific. You still claim that people have a Hollywood perception about Greeks, in your most recent post you even referenced Hollywood again; "The difference between our parties and the sort of Greek party you might see in the movies". You are blaming Hollywood for peoples perceptions of Greeks instead of the reality they have experienced.

The women's center views sororities as sexist and you dismiss their opinions as sexist. Instead of dismissing what they have to say you should consider having discussions with them so you can see what their real concerns are and what the Greeks can do to address them. Or you can just let it go and understand that not everyone likes the way Greeks operate. You also need stop blaming movies, they are fantasy. People know the difference between fantasy and reality; no one believes that Greeks are like "Animal House" or "Revenge of the Nerds".

 

[Orglethorp]

Believe me, we have been having conversations with these ladies with the purpose of trying to understand and help each other. That's what has spurred this. I'm also in the habit of referencing movies to describe the inaccurate views of Greek life in my area because that's exactly what our opposition is doing. I cannot count how many times those opposing us have referenced fiction film titles.

That being said, again, this is not at all what I intended to discuss in this thread. What I was originally mad about when I wrote this was that I felt like these women assume that people who have been through what I've been through should automatically agree with them, and since I don't, they assume my life has been very different. That's what I wanted to discuss. Forgive me if introducing the context that lead me to experiencing those opinions sounded like I wanted to discuss something else. Can we please move on from the opinions of Greek life? I get enough of this in every other venue of my life!