Best thing for him really. his therapy was going nowhere.

[Hooper]

It's one thing to get stuck on the trauma of a loved one, and to develop a passion about the issue overall that can fuel action. That usually helps people feel good. Maybe angry at times, but not stuck in obessive thoughts.

It's another obsess about the president and every rapist out there and to feel worse and worse.

Where to start. I just asked my wife if I was ocd and she says not at all. She's a teacher and see's ocd kids all day. As for obsession I have done that and it has been very profitable. My mother (who I don't like but you don't mess with my mom) was taken by a con man for $120k. It's a long story but I did obsess over it, figured out the crime (complicated), documented it and when he filed a $7 million dollar chapter 7 bankruptcy I went to the lawyer representing the creditors for the bankruptcy court and was laughed out of the room. He bought $10 million in life insurance for his business and transferred the money over to his spouse instead of the business all 2 years prior to committing suicide and getting laughed out of court. I went back being the obsessive person I am or maybe determined and told the lawyer to look into the life insurance. She did and said it was the wife's after asking her lawyer. I'm thinking why do you ask a crook (they know which lawyers to hire) to answer a question honestly. I then went to a lawyer and he did the same thing I did accept instead of telling her what to look for he asked questions that begged answers and we won as did the other creditors. It had all the complexity and grey areas of rape. If I could sleep with a good conscience the 2 crimes I know of that are the least likely to get a conviction are bankruptcy fraud and rape. I would be very wealthy and have a lot of sex but I can't do that. I bought a chineese drywall house for 50 cents on the dollar because I obsessed over what the issue was and what the actual repair would cost. My family benefited greatly. I would like to change the word to determined. I am determined to understand what makes a rapist behave the way they do, what makes rape victims behave the way they do and why it has had the effect it has had on me. I'm not so much obsessed by the president and every rapist out there as I am baffled.

You have the compulsion of acting on your obsessions in a way that doesn't help you feel better but worse - and that pattern is very OCD-like. I don't really know either way. It just strikes me that the obsessiveness of your focus seems strong, and you feel so compelled to act on the obsession. Hunting him down and focusing in on all the details and stats ... and feeling worse and worse (more and more angry) along the way...

Have you done any CBT work on beginning to break the obsessive thoughts to see what would happen with your anger and distress? Are you able to put away acting on the obessive thoughts about the rape and rape related issues for any length of time? To not seek out the perp and not follow stories about rape in the news and etc?

I see how I come across like that. Part of hunting him down was after I heard the details of the rape I went into a 2 week 2-3 hour a day sleep pattern and decided to find out who he was. As for rape stories in media I can't read them because they are not personal. As for stories here although I don't know the individuals if there is something I can say that I think may benefit them since the male perspective is more of a rarity here I feel compelled to write something that would benefit them. I think it benefits me as well. I am able to put rape related issues away but they pop up constantly. It's hard to listen to the radio, read the news or watch a movie and avoid the subject. At times I think I'm doing better and at times I don't. As for stats I'm a numbers kind of guy. I do seek reputable stats. Justice would ease my pain but there is no justice for rape victims unless you consider a 6 rapists out of 1000 rape victims convicted justice. Even the the 6 convictions caused trauma on the victims to get to that pathetic conviction rate. The justice system has been a complete failure to rape victims who according to the stats make up around 25% of the population. It's an epidemic. I get the intentions of everyone here wanting to help me heal over something that did not even happen to me. The majority of the few I've talked to see me as off my rocker all of whom have at a minimum a mother, most have wives(most who have been raped) and some have daughters. Society says rape is wrong and unacceptable. The conviction rates and what the victims are put through say the opposite. I live in southern Louisiana. We have an epidemic of flooding. When a disaster happens FEMA, the Coast Guard and the local police/emergency responders do all they can to help victims. We are grateful for that but it is not enough, not fast enough and the various agencies do not know the area. What do we do about this inadequacy? We have the Cajun Navy. When lives are at risk people with boats don't go to their jobs, haul their boats with gas/water/food/gps and go pull people out. There's no telling how many lives they've saved. As we speak the Cajun Navy is pouring into southeastern Texas. If there were a Cajun Navy for rape victims the ones that were laying out sand bags to stop the water (rapists) would be felons. I don't know the stats on what percent of america is a victim of flooding but 25% are sexually assaulted and we accept 6 rapes out of 1000 do time. I keep being told to just accept it. It's not your trauma anyway. My family means more to me than I do to me. I like me. I am trying to deal with it the best I can.

It sounds like your obsession is beginning to control you. And if anyone was obsessing about the details of the problems of rape in society, and they could not stop and get a break, damn, even without the pain of a loved one being raped, they could reasonably be really really angry too. All the time.

I am a functioning member of society. I get that I am not in control of my emotions and I'm working on it. If society had what everyone here sees as my right to be angry (on a healthy level) mixed in with the 25% whose loved ones being raped I don't think the problem would be as bad. Society blames the victims to the point they don't even go to the police. Society should have a healthy amount of anger directed where it belongs which is at the perpetrators. If that were the case we'd all be less angry and rapists would be in jail.

 

[Nessa7]

Everything that you've written suggests to me that this is having a negative impact on your life. You say yourself that it is unhealthy and is getting worse. You feel like you have to hide it from your wife. I'm not saying that you should share this with your wife, but I think it says a lot about how you feel about this that you aren't being open about it.

I don't think that this determination is comparable to the house or what happened with your mother. In those cases, you were the only person that was going to do those things. There are many organizations dedicated to stopping rape and helping victims. People have dedicated their entire lives to this. You thinking about rape will not have a noticeable impact. I am not saying this because I think people shouldn't think about rape. I'm saying it because linking your emotional well-being to vague outcomes can lead to setting yourself up for disappointment. Also, this:

It had all the complexity and grey areas of rape.

Is a concerning statement. Literally, if you were to list all the complexity and grey areas of rape and bankruptcy fraud, it would be obvious that this is not factually accurate. This is especially the case because you weren't dealing with all of the bankruptcy fraud in the world.

Another thing is that for both of those you were taking actions in addition to just thinking and talking about it. Information about what kind of help organizations that help rape victims need isn't hard to find, which has me guessing that you might not have looked into it, even though it had been suggested to you before you started the thread. It also doesn't seem like the conversations you've had have been satisfying. I'm not saying this to be critical, but it is one of the pieces that has me wondering if there is something going on that you haven't dug up yet.

Because of this and other things that you've said, I'm wondering if there is something that is keeping you from being ready to let go of your anger. Have you talked with your therapist about what purpose your anger might be serving in your life?

 

[Hooper]

You're right about a lot of what you say. I'm too tired to get into it but will tomorrow. My day consisted of a roof repair estimate of $20k and my therapist suggesting I do 2-4 weeks of intensive therapy in Arizona to deal with childhood trauma that affects the way I am dealing with my wife's rape. I felt like I was getting dumped and read her email to my wife so conversation is opening up there. Again many valid points. I'll try to get to it tomorrow.

 

[Justmehere]

Ah, your reaction makes a little more sense now knowing you have been through childhood trauma that is linked to how you respond to your wife's rape. You could be trying to solve the original trauma indirectly by focusing on another's trauma. That's actually a very common thing that happens for survivors of trauma. Your therapist has a great suggestion to consider that intensive program. I've done similar work - life changing. So worth it. Great investment. Probably saved me years of work and thousands in costs over the long run.

She says I skip sad and go straight to mad.

What function, what benefit to you get by hanging on to the anger and avoiding feeling sad? Think about it. Emotions are not facts but they do contain valuable information. Even maladaptive behavior bring some kind of "benefit" or else we would not do them.

An example. I get angry at my health insurance company for left and sometimes life threatening problemsz What does my anger do for me? It fuels me to take action to save my health. This is not bad, it's good. To a moderate degree. But when the anger sticks around, it also pulls me away from the fear of being helpless about my condition. It also distracts me from issues where I can actually take greater action and heal.

There are times where the anger spikes too high and isn't really helping me live a better life. It just makes me miserable. So to be more effective, I need to find other ways to meet the needs behind the anger. In my case, I find other ways to meet the need for safety, to grieve, to have a sense of agency in my own life, etc.

Justice would ease my pain but there is no justice for rape victims unless you consider a 6 rapists out of 1000 rape victims convicted justice.

Injustice is terrible and super painful. I get that. Oh do I ever get that. Justice for what was done to your wife AND to you would be wonderful.

But justice alone doesn't resolve the pain. Be careful to not hang your hat on that being the only way to get relief and freedom from this struggle. I am not saying you are doing this, just cautioning to not slide there. It's so easy to do. I thought justice would bring me relief. One of the perps who hurt me was convicted. That was a good thing. It did not ease the pain. It did not resolve the pain. It got worse. My own anger did not lessen. it actually got worse. It is complex as to why this is the case, but it is by no means unique to me.

Something that can be helpful to easing pain is validation. Justice can do that a bit, but you probably can't get justice in this case... but you can gain validation that this was wrong, and be heard and find safety, with peer support like here and in therapy and etc.

Be careful to avoid seeking revenge. I do not know a single survivor who really did better over the long haul after seeking revenge. I don't push for people to forgive, but there is some truth in the saying that unforgiveness, or perhaps revenge, is like seeking to kill someone else by swallowing a pill ourselves. Hanging on to this intense desire to go after the rapist is making you miserable and no affecting them.

Anger is a part of grief. I hope you begin to explore others aspects of what needs to be grieved, in time, when you are ready.

When people talk about acceptance - it's a path to actually feeling the grief and pain of what happened in a way that allows you to become more effective. It's not saying this didn't matter or it wasn horrible. It's actually a path to really working through how much it matters and how horrible it was. To accept that there are some things that we can't change, which must be grieved, and then, and often only then, we are more able to focus on the things we can change (and become more effective advocates for change and etc.) Right now you describe your anger as being intense enough that you can't advocate for others and really affect change in the system or for individuals like perhaps you might otherwise be able to do.

Anger in and of itself isn't bad. It's what we do with it that matters. Right now your anger is fueling you to seek action, but you are seeking to take action on things you really can't change and ignoring what you do have the ability to change.

So try to find where you can affect change without getting more miserable.

Your wife is not in a position to diagnosie her husband. Period. She is also not in a position to diagnose a struggling supporter who is withholding info. The fact that you even see a bankruptcy (different situation) through rape colored lenses is concerning.

But that being said, if you are not ready for change and things are working for you as they are, then stay the course. I don't get the impression that this is working for you, but maybe it is.

I am a functioning member of society.

I never meant to imply otherwise. :)

 

[Hooper]

Nessa/Justmehere/Scout,
To start thank you for the time you put into this. Once again I'm sleep deprived and there is so much quality observations that are correct that I'm just going to have to babble and not address each issue. I've already got a headache and responding point by point won't help. I think it is about me and my trauma. I'm a white man born in Mississippi in the late 60's. If you called my home and I answered the phone when I was 3-4 you would have thought I was black. As far as I'm concerned the true love of a mother came from our family maid Viola. She fed me, loved me and took care of me while my Mom did I don't know what and Dad drove up and down the Ms delta taking care of the farm on my Mom's side. Things were fine for the first 10 years with some major exceptions. My actual Mom fired my real Mom when the can opener broke and she tore up knives opening cans to feed us. One day Viola was there and one day she was gone. Ada Bee was my next for all practical purposes Mom. She stayed to the end of her life until I was out of college. Her pay was $100 a week which was below minimum wage.

My Mom was raised the same way by Lola. Her dad was a country doctor who was dedicated to the citizens of the county. He had rheumatic fever and a hole in his heart. His life expectancy was 30 which my grandmother knew so the stress in that household must have been great. All I know is my grandfather was dead by 43 and my Dad took over the 5000 acres my grandfather put together in a less than lawful way. He had a 6th grade education and was from the depression era. My point is on my Mom's side she had an absent father who beat her mother so it's not like she had it good either. I can blame her and be angry at her but what do you expect to come from that sort of family. I've come to the conclusion most all families are dysfunctional but I'm trying to get to a point.

My Dad was the son of a Presbyterian minister. My grandfather buried the protestants on Normandy and a catholic priest buried the catholics. He was in WWI but volunteered for WWII leaving his family behind which my grandmother greatly resented. When he came off the bus my Dad didn't know who his own father was. As a minister Dad bounced from church to church before landing back at the family farm. His father had 2 brothers and there was a train track that ran behind the farm house. My grandfather and both brothers ran away from home by jumping on the train that ran behind their house. My grandfather was 14 and ended up in Kansas City working at a pool hall as a hustler who played for the house. My point here is both sides of my family came from highly dysfunctional situations. My Dad told me when he married my Mom and stayed at the in law's house he could here "the doctor'' beating his wife and thinking what did I get in to. I asked him if he thought he came from any better of situation and he was shocked. I pointed out that his father and uncles were so miserable they chose a train to who knows where over their own home and I found it interesting I heard nothing of his childhood. He was quiet.

Now back to my family. My parents divorced when I was 10. Dad was trustee of the farm and my mother's grandmother gave Dad a $40k check for dirt sold to build a highway that went into a joint acct. At 12 you could decide where you wanted to live. My older brother chose Dad as did I. My younger brother chose Mom. We should never have been put in that position and to this day my Mom holds my older brother and I in contempt for choosing Dad. As they say hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Divorces are bad enough but ours went beyond that. Mom rallied her side of the family to put the father of her children in jail for embezzlement. At 12-14 I watched my father convicted of a felony which meant the state penitentiary in Ms known as Parchman. Not only did she put our father in jail over money I knew their was a good chance he would be raped in prison. Fortunately my Dad won on appeal but the damage was done. During the same period I was lured to a condo by a pedophile on vacation who thankfully was more of a groomer and took no for an answer.

As for more background my father had a bad temper. He whipped us at the drop of a hat if we did not do exactly what he said. I'm sure it was the way he was raised. My main issue with it was he used to refer to my maternal grandmother as the dumbest white woman east of the Mississippi river. He chose his spouse for money. He is now remarried. When my maternal grandfather was at the University of Ms there were only 2 students with cars. My Dad married both of their daughters. My oldest brother had a learning disability. Every time our report cards came out mine were fine but I would get in trouble at school for not bringing them back signed because my brother put off the beating he knew was coming. At 16 I finally told Dad I never wanted to here him call my grandmother the dumbest white woman east of the Ms river again. He asked laughingly why and I told him he chose his spouse not by what kind of mother she would be (he thought she was stupid to) but for money and beat the hell out of my brother as a result of the gene pool he selected. Things were so bad my brother moved to Alabama to live with a family friend for a semester in high school. Needless to say it was not a normal upbringing. I chose to work as an oyster shucker from 8th grade to 9th from 5pm to 10pm during school. Not something I would let my children do. That business was sold and the owner found us all jobs at the biggest bar in the state. On weekends I worked from 5pm to 5am from 15 until I graduated from high school. It was the 80's and it was complete debauchery. By law we had to buy liquor from the state. Sometimes the state ran out. When it did the bar was on the water and I was underage so they would send me on a john boat, fill it with cases of liquor across the harbor where the owner lived and I would drive the boat back. If the police stopped me they said to say I stole it (fit with the family record) and they would not press charges. I was completely trusted though. I had combinations to the safe, keys and complete run of the place as a kid. I would never let my children see that environment. All I wanted to do was graduate from high school and go to college which I did. When my youngest brother graduated he packed his bags and went straight to Colorado, worked for a year to establish residency and went to college there as an in state student. We all left and got the hell out of Mississippi. It's not the state that was the problem it was the family.

So where am I today? My parents are aging and will be dead in a few years. It is pointless to try to correct the wrongs of the past. As I pointed out above it's not like they didn't come from dysfunctional families but I do think mine was worse. Yes I had a traumatic childhood. When my Mom passes I don't think I will cry. I am very close to my Dad but he has aged to the point he is not the same person and I already miss him. I married a great woman. She couldn't be a better mother or wife. When I knew exactly what happened to her I came unhinged. We spoke about it last night. She is over her trauma. I am not but recognize my own traumatic childhood has a lot to do with my anger at her rapist. I'm angry at her mother for letting a 13 yr old go out with a 16 yr old. I don't understand why she stayed with him after the rape. She says he had his own issues which is rather self apparent. My wife's step mother was abusive to her (verbally) and her father knew it but chose to not deal with the situation vs being alone. She wonders why I am not mad at them. We both had it rough. We learned to parent by learning what not to do. That said I think dysfunction in families is the default setting. I'm trying to change that. I don't know what else to say except my head really hurts, I'm trying to get better and I appreciate the insight.
hooper

 

[Justmehere]

You have been through some really awful trauma, and some of it around the same age range and your wife was when she was raped. It also is more clear why you are so angry at the justice system and injustice.

Keep untangling this, and keep working with your therapist.

When you get angry in the here and now, it might help to ensure and handle the anger more effectively to begin to recognize some of it is very justified anger about the past - anger that has been there to help you survive, and you did survive, and that it's over now. That inner child that lived in the midst of loss, abuse, and injustice needs reminding that it's over and you are safe and it was so wrong and so horrible and you've got good people in your life now. :hug:

 

[Hooper]

Justmehere,
The odd thing for me about my childhood trauma is I thought it was normal. It was all I knew. There were things I simply wanted to forget and have. I knew I had it bad but I also knew others had it worse and for some strange reason that was reassuring. I've said it multiple times in other threads but in my opinion justice serves these people in this order:
1. Those that administer the law (lawyers judges)
2. Those that write the law (politicians)
3. Those that break the law (some of those are actually in first place but very few)
4. The rest of us
My Dad was/is a very smart man. He knew since I was under the age of 12 and couldn't decide which parent to choose he risked losing custody of me. He knew 3 judges made the decision. 2 of the judges always went with the mother and 1 would go with the father. More importantly he knew how to get the judge that would go with the father. Judges typically have lawyers in the family. 1 judge had a son who was a lawyer and another had a nephew that was a lawyer. Dad put the son and nephew on retainer (cheaper than hiring), hired the best divorce lawyer and the 2 judges had to recuse themselves leaving the last judge. In his criminal trial Dad hired the best criminal lawyer in town who happened to be the District Atty's college room mate. Mom swears the DA made mistakes on purpose so he would win on appeal. I know from my great aunt who testified for my father that my great grandmother gave Dad the money because she was pissed her mother did not give the money to her. As my brother said to them "I don't care which one of you is right all I know is one of you is lying". The crazy part was custody didn't matter. On any given day I never knew where I was sleeping. It was either at my Dad's girlfriend's house, his family farm house, my Mom or my best friend. My Dad used to laugh at the black men he knew. He'd ask them where they lived. They'd answer "I stays at" wherever it happened to be at the time. I swear I feel part black. When I was a kid and got a bloody nose Viola would stick toothpicks behind my ears. It didn't do a damn thing for my bloody nose but I did it for years after until I finally asked what in the hell am I doing. I know what it's like to have a Dad on trial and possibly doing time. Dad used to give us a quarter for the first of my brothers that could spot a cop so he wouldn't get a ticket. It's surreal looking back.

 

[scout86]

The odd thing for me about my childhood trauma is I thought it was normal.

I've got a client who's a therapist. (Not mine, although she knows him a little & auto of knows why I'm seeing him.) I was at her place today & exactly this came up. I said what you just said, about an aspect of my childhood. She said, "You might be surprised how often I see that."

Last week, in therapy, for some reason, "rich people" came up. One of the first jobs my T has involved working with kids, many of whom gained to have rich parents. He mentioned the 'nanny/ maid' thing. He said a lot of those women were great parents and the kids loved them. But, many of the mothers got jealous of the relationships and would fire the nanny because of it. His thought was that that was mean and hurt the kids even more than having a biological mother who was too busy to be a real mother. I didn't expect to run across an example so soon.