Relationship Beware Ptsd Being Used As An Excuse...

[Sweetpea76]

there are people who post mostly non PTSD stuff here in the PTSD parts of the forum

The "here in the PTSD parts of the forum" is what prompted my response.

 

[BSSupporterGB]

I'm saying things from a PTSD perspective. I think it would be a good idea to try and see things...

Interesting. Lucky for you I am not in a relationship with you then! ;-)

Part of my reason for joining this forum was to understand more, because I have that willingness and want to learn more to support my partner more.

I am pretty sure that people suffering from PTSD are very capable of supporting their partner as well, and very capable of seeing things from their partners perspective - as a supporter to them. I am also sure that PTSD sufferers have morals and would not actively want to go "be with a stranger" and capable of working through that and choosing their partner over their needs at the time. Depends largely on your want though.

 

[Sweetpea76]

@lostforgottensoul, please keep this thread on topic.

 

[BSSupporterGB]

These are how:





And take the hard parts of your last comment and times them by a millon f...

I have a lot of confidence and support for my partner that he can get through any issue with everyone's support, not just mine. I am no fool to think that when he gets through an issue this time, that it won't happen again (whatever the issue). FYI he does have similar feelings as you do, to leave before I leave him and other reasons. We have talked and communicated and both are committed to this. I believe in us. I believe in him and I support him for every million times harder it is for him than it (in your opinion) is for me.

 

[Sighs]

I am pretty sure that people suffering from PTSD are very capable of supporting their partner as well, and very capable of seeing things from their partners perspective

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Ah... *wipes tears of laughter out of eyes* When my vet is highly symptomatic he is totally incapable of supporting a goldfish emotionally let alone seeing anything from anyone else's perspective.

I needed that belly laugh!

 

[BSSupporterGB]

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Ah... *wipes tears of laughter out of eyes* When my vet i...

Are you saying when he is not symptomatic he can't support you? Glad you laughed. Sorry that your partner doesn't support you when he is not symptomatic.

 

[Sighs]

@BSSupporterGB - he's always symptomatic - only the depth varies.

Imagine it like a river. We're both swimming, but I'm in the slower water near the bank. He's out in the deep where the current flows faster. Most of the time he's barely keeping his head above water. I help him as much as I can from where I am but I can't go out there with him. I shout encouragement and warn him of debris in the river but he still has to swim on his own. Most of the time, regardless of how much I might be struggling where I am near the bank, he's too busy not drowning to help me. Occasionally, if he hits a tranquil patch he might get a chance to look over and see how I'm doing, but usually if things are turbulent near me they are 100 times worse where he is. Its not that he doesn't want to. He just can't.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

That is so very well put @Sighs and oddly, very beautiful!

 

[joeylittle]

All sufferers on this thread - kindly re-read this post: Link Removed

 

[Just Sayin']

No, that is not what I am saying at all. And definitely not because you are living with PTSD. No...

I'm sorry for what happened to you.

Please understand that I am honestly not criticizing your viewpoint -- I have zero room to pass judgment. I am not asking for empathy -- you were hurt, and, in my opinion, you don't need the additional emotional weight of trying to empathize with what hurt you and it's not fair of anyone to ask it.

I'd like to offer, because of and in honor of the pain I have caused others who I image to be very much like you, an honest explanation that doesn't "use PTSD as an excuse" but illustrates how trying to manage PTSD with PTSD does create some very bad and irrational coping mechanisms. This, obviously, goes only as far as I can speak for myself and of my own experience , but I hope it might be helpful. We all want answers for things that just do not make sense.


People with PTSD aren't intentionally hurting people, and they don't always know what's "wrong." People with PTSD aren't all also narcissists, though the symptoms and behavior may be similar, the motivation and underlying beliefs are very different. And that's important, at least to me, in terms of intent.

PTSD is a fear-reaction based and self-focused, so you can see narcissistic type behaviors a lot of times simply because avoidance and denial are practically everyone's favorite coping mechanisms regardless of trauma or non-trauma. No, the PTSD is not an "excuse" for bad behavior. BUT the coping mechanisms adopted to deal with the experience of having PTSD can create plenty of bad behaviors unintentionally -- it's not about excuses or justifying or not being responsible for our own behavior (we are). It's about the fact that I can't accurately view my own behavior (or I won't -- I'll using avoidance/denial as a way to protect my psyche, but that doesn't work if I realize I'm doing it!), nor can I accurately assign credit or blame, nor can I actively take responsibility for my behavior because my behavior is the product of the denial and avoidance that I'm not able to confront.

And here's the thing for me: when I'm not in "fight or flight" PTSD mode, I KNOW to the depths of my soul that my fear is irrational. That I can see that makes me believe that I CAN have normal relationships. I can write this post with self-awareness and humility. But PTSD has NO cure. I STILL, knowing what I know, fight this battle. It is HARD.

And that's now. Before I recognized all of this, when I would get into a relationship there comes a certain level of closeness that makes me anxious ... and defensive. Feeling the need to defend myself, feeling as though I'm being threatened, activating a "fight or flight" reaction that is NOT NORMAL. Of course, if I could see that without a proper diagnosis, acceptance, and lot of help and therapy it wouldn't actually be PTSD, would it? Instead, I would look for what was "causing" the feeling, so I could make it go away. The idea that there is not an immediate, situational (as in non-prior trauma related) "cause" for feeling such levels of panic is unfathomable. Even now, I just have to assume that's true while my brain keeps screaming "Threat!! No, it IS real this time!! This time it IS different!! Seriously!! You're gonna die!!!"

And I know that rationally, right now, but IT WILL NOT prevent it from happing exactly like that next time too. Knowledge and rational thought have nothing to do with it.

You should know that my specific flavor of PTSD is "complex" and has an abandonment component tied emotionally to the physical trauma of the event that caused my PTSD. PTSD is different, of course, in it's expression and symptoms and varies by person and varies by "source." My PTSD doesn't "look like" combat PTSD, for example. Still, understanding how PTSD can affect interpersonal relationships through my experience may be helpful -- as long as you're not me or in a relationship with me, of course.

Because, as you can imagine, I've been a horrible relationship partner in the past.

It was never done intentionally though.

I COULD NOT see what I was doing (denial/avoidance), and the underlying, unstated belief that the right relationship would make me feel safe and "better." It didn't, which led to a lot of disappointment and a lot of leaving to try to find that "thing" that I needed from a relationship.

We are all hard-wired to seek out connection, and the subconcious belief that connection will make us "safe" or "better" drives us to find relationships ... only to find that we're terrified. We have two options: 1) face the truth we're trying to deny and avoid, or 2) assume that it would be different with another partner or the "right partner."

That's not exactly a rational choice. You can't consciously choose denial -- it would require that you were aware of and accepted the denial in the first place, but that's exactly what the denial prevents! So, what someone "should" doesn't have a lot bearing on what they will do when they're in denial about the reason why.

To your very good point, having realized that THIS is what I was doing, I stopped. I did what I "should" do, but I was only able to do so AFTER I accepted that I was in denial and what I was in denial about. Then, I started working on me, and I will continue to do so as long as I need to. I have many good relationships, but I'm not reaching for too much too soon and risking the other person if I'm unable to "behave." I'm not sure when I'll get there or if I'll get there or how I'll know. But it's the best I've got right now.

Anyway, I am deeply sorry for the hurt I have unconsciously caused others now that I realize what I was doing.

The TL;DR version is that it takes a lot of self-awareness and brutal honesty to get past denial. The stress, panic, and anxiety and the completely screwed-up "fight or flight" reaction doesn't really allow for people to be their most self-actualized or do what they "should" especially when they're in denial about what's happening. The ability for self-awareness and confronting the thing you're denying is far higher on Maslow's hierarchy of needs than "survival" -- and PTSD, because of a primitive, irrational, over-reactive fight or flight response, practically turn any potential romantic partner, despite their patience, generosity, kindness or goodness into a lion trying to eat me.

If it were rational or if the fear response was proportionate or appropriate, it wouldn't be PTSD.

The list at the bottom of the post is a list of common maladaptive coping/defense behaviors (not for EVERYONE with PTSD, of course, but it's useful in terms of behaviors when fear intimacy and abandonment is part of the equation). The list only contains only 3 things that I was not doing in my relationships. I was actively avoiding/denying the impact of PTSD on my interpersonal relationships and telling myself it was a purely physical trauma and limited to acting up when I felt physically threatened. Unfortunately, no one could have told me that ... and many people tried ... and good people were hurt.

There is no force more powerful than a human's ability to deny the things that they are afraid might be true. There is no limit to the lengths humans will go to avoid and run from having to face those truths.

I hope ... that this answers even just one "why" you've asked yourself, that it provides you with some small reassurance that hurting you was likely not the "goal," or acknowledgment that regardless of the "goal" it doesn't change, or excuse, or invalidate, or make okay the fact that you were hurt through no fault of your own at the hand of someone else, or the knowledge that you did not deserve it and that you probably would not have been able to stop it or change it no matter what you did.

Here's that list I mentioned, taken from a resource provided to me by a therapist and that I keep as a reminder when I feel "PTSD-y" that what I see and feel is not the ONLY thing happening. That other people are involved and this is what they see and feel from me. I'd like to think it's made my behavior better at least more often than it would otherwise be.

This list is meant to be descriptive, rather than exhaustive of the many issues related to the abandonment syndrome.

1. An intense fear of abandonment that interferes in forming primary relationships in adulthood.
2. Intrusive insecurity that interferes in your social life and goal achievement.
3. Tendency toward self-defeating behavior patterns that sabotage your love life, goals, or career.
4. A tendency to repeatedly subject yourself to people or experiences that lead to another loss and another trauma.
5. Intrusive reawakening of old losses; echoes of old feelings of vulnerability and fear which interfere in current experience.
6. Heightened memories of traumatic separations and other events.
7. Conversely, partial or complete memory blocks of childhood traumas.
8. Feelings of emotional detachment, i.e. feeling numb to past losses.
9. Conversely, difficulty letting go of the painful feelings of old rejections and losses.
10. Episodes of self-neglectful or self destructive behavior.
11. Difficulty withstanding (and overreacting to) the customary emotional ups and downs of adult relationships.
12. Difficulty working through the ordinary levels of conflict and disappointment within adult relationships.
13. Extreme sensitivity to perceived rejections, exclusions or criticisms.
14. Emotional pendulum swing between fear of engulfment and fear of abandonment; you alternate between ‘feeling the walls close in’ if someone gets too close and feeling on a precipice of abandonment if you are not sure of the person.
15. Difficulty feeling the affection and other physical comforts offered by a willing partner.
16. Tendency to ‘get turned off’ and ‘lose the connection’ by involuntarily shutting down romantically and/or sexually on a willing partner.
17. Conversely, tendency to feel hopelessly hooked on a partner who is emotionally distancing.
18. Tendency to have emotional hangovers ‘the morning after’ someone has triggered your abandonment feelings.
19. Difficulty naming your feelings or sorting through an emotional fog.
20. Abandophobism – a tendency to avoid close relationships altogether to avoid risk of abandonment.
21. Conversely, a tendency to rush into relationships and clamp on too quickly.
22. Difficulty letting go because you have attached with emotional epoxy, even when you know your partner is no longer able to fulfill your needs.
23. An excessive need for control, whether it’s about the need to control others’ behavior and thoughts, or about being excessively self-controlled; a need to have everything perfect and done your way.
24. Conversely, a tendency to create chaos by avoiding responsibility, procrastinating, giving up control to others, and feeling out of control.
25. Tendency to have unrealistic expectations and heightened reactivity toward others such that it creates conflict and burns bridges to your social connections.
26. People-pleasing – excessive need for acceptance or approval.
27. Co-dependency issues in which you give too much of yourself to others and feel you don’t get enough back.
28. Tendency to act impulsively without being able to put the brakes on, even when you are aware of the negative consequences.
29. Tendency toward unpredictable outbursts of anger.
30. Conversely, tendency to under-react to anger out of fear of breaking the connection and your extreme aversion to ‘not being liked’.

 

[Chimera]

I'm sorry for what happened to you.

Please understand that I am honestly not criticizing your vie...

The list!!
So insightful, an important reminder for me when struggling, of how it may affect those close to and even those who are around me in non-relationship capacity.
Thank you!
I would like to post it to my diaru, do you mind?

 

[Just Sayin']

The list!!
So insightful, an important reminder for me when struggling, of how it may affect those clos...

Thank you. Of course I don't mind! We all deserve as much help and insight as we can get. I'm grateful for benefit you, or anyone else, gets from it!