BPD Bpd vs c-ptsd

[Kas_Can_Fly]

is that the idea of C-PTSD....or complex trauma, or whatever one prefers to refer to it as

The only thing I don't get is Complex Trauma is unequivocally, undeniably real - no one is denying that - it comes from as previously stated, long drawn out traumas such as long term abuse, child abuse or domestic violence or the accumulation of many different traumas such as a rape, a car accident, the death of a loved one and so on. It affects an individual possibly to a greater extent and may result in many other disorders, but mostly it's difficult as the trauma can overlap and intertwine making it difficult to resolve any one symptom and thought process. Complex PTSD is a disorder that doesn't officially exist because of the debate about its existence, it has no diagnostic criteria and the symptoms for it range from website to website - the smallest I've seen it referred to is a just PTSD with complex trauma right up to PTSD+multiples of other disorders.

You can have complex trauma and PTSD - it's still called 'just' PTSD - because the trauma was complex and you might be too, but the PTSD isn't. So many of the symptoms I've seen people say that C-PTSD has are just PTSD symptoms - ok they might be even more common in PTSD sufferers with complex trauma, but other groups of PTSD sufferers have more in common as well. PTSD from military trauma isn't called M-PTSD or PTSD from natural disasters isn't called ND-PTSD and even if it was named that, it would most likely be so it could exist to your trauma not a special sub-type of PTSD - I think.

Sometimes there are other diagnosis' that must be factored in and these are (in most places referring to complex PTSD) usually a dissociative disorder and/or personality disorder. The degree the symptoms of these disorders must be greater than the what is already implied with a PTSD diagnosis - Dissociation is key to PTSD as can be personality shifts. If the degree is great enough, you are then diagnosed with two additional - but separate diagnosis' - yes they are related (to the trauma) and that affects the PTSD, but they are great enough to need adding to your file.

I think something that is important to remember is you are an individual and you do not fit into perfectly defined little boxes - not one and not ten. You might overspill into other boxes or just touch them, or have some things that are unique to you that don't belong in any box and that's ok. Really the reason it is important to be diagnosed and diagnosed correctly is so that you get the treatment and help that is most needed for you - but even then you will still be unique to your health professionals/therapists because you are a person and not a box.

I still call for the (in my opinion) vital information of what definition of C-PTSD are you using? This is mostly for the OP, as I don't want to take this too off track and I already fear it may be. Sorry @conquer - I hope we're not scaring you off - if I am/have I'm very sorry, and I want to say that I think you should get some information about C-PTSD and take it to your doctor and say why you think you have that and not BPD. Also, I second @NovemberStar - a lot of people are being erroneously labelled with BPD without any forethought. If you feel that the diagnosis is wrong, or that you have C-PTSD, or that you have both BPD and PTSD - C or otherwise, I would encourage you to do a little bit of reading and print out some stuff as to why not one disorder and why another - impress them and use the diagnostic criteria from the DSM where possible. Good Luck. :)

Once again, no offense is meant. If I sound blunt or angry I'm not, I'm trying to be incredibly clear so as not to offend and to avoid confusion. I know it is possible for me to type something with one meaning and for it to be read with another with no one at fault. Honest, I'm only asking questions because I'm curious not to be inflammatory - though they may be better aimed at people who actually write the DSM or the guidelines for CPTSD or whatever!! ;)

 

[Deleted member 18673]

PTSD is frequently misdiagnosed as BPD. It is in the scholarly litterature everywhere. I can not link articles from my phone but if you have access to Medline or Pubmed you will find numerous articles.

By BPD I assume you mean bipolar disorder.

Good luck

No, I meant borderline personality disorder, although I'm sure many are misdiagnosed with bipolar as well.

 

[Deleted member 18673]

Thanks everyone who commented. However, it seems like most of you a very confused over what C-PTSD actually is. Here's the briefest explanation I could find:


"The symptoms of PTSD apply well to people who have experienced a discrete or short-lived traumatic event, such as a motor vehicle accident, natural disaster, or rape. However, the symptoms of PTSD do not always completely map onto the experiences of people who have experienced chronic, repeated, or long-lasting traumatic events, such as childhood sexual and/or physical abuse, domestic violence, or captivity.

When it comes to these events, the symptoms of PTSD do not really seem to completely describe the psychological harm, emotional problems, and changes in how people view themselves and the world following chronic traumatic exposure. Therefore, some mental health professionals believe that we should distinguish between the type of PTSD that develops from chronic, long-lasting traumatic events as compared PTSD from short-lived events. The diagnosis of "Complex PTSD" refers to the set of symptoms that commonly follow exposure to a chronic traumatic event."

"The diagnostic construct of complex PTSD or DESNOS is not currently recognized in the DSM-IV as a freestanding diagnosis, but is instead presented as associated features of PTSD. Complex PTSD is expected to be included in the next edition of the diagnostic guidebook, the DSM-V. However, it is unclear if it will be given the name complex PTSD or DESNOS. Currently, both terms are referred to interchangeably in the clinical literature in this area.

Simple post-traumatic stress consists of changes to three areas of functioning, while complex post-traumatic stress consists of changes to six domains of functioning. The diagnostic criteria for determining the presence of complex post-traumatic stress entails that a number of specific changes (outlined below) are present in each of the six domains of functioning.

Diagnostic criteria for complex post-traumatic stress responses
(I) Alteration in Regulation of Affect and Impulses
(A and one of B to F required)

• affect regulation
• modulation of anger
• self-destructive behaviour
• suicidal preoccupation
• difficulty modulating sexual involvement
• excessive risk-taking

(II) Alterations in Attention or Consciousness
(A or B required)

• amnesia
• transient dissociative episodes and depersonalization

(III) Alterations in Self-Perception
(Two of A to F required)

• ineffectiveness
• permanent damage
• guilt and responsibility
• shame
• nobody can understand
• minimizing

(IV) Alterations in Relations with Others
(One of A to C required)

• inability to trust
• revictimization
• victimizing others

(V) Somatization
(Two of A to E required)

• problems with the digestive system
• chronic pain
• cardiopulmonary symptoms
• conversion symptoms
• sexual symptoms

(VI) Alterations in Systems of Meaning
(A or B required)

• despair and hopelessness
• loss of previously sustaining beliefs

Luxenberg, Spinazzola, van der Kolk. Reprinted with permission from The Hatherleigh Company, Ltd., New York.

 

[Deleted member 18673]

For me the controversy is that while each of my behaviours and symptoms trace back to specific events in my childhood, whereas " 'Borderline personality disorder (BPD)' is a serious mental illness that centers on the inability to manage emotions effectively. The disorder occurs in the context of relationships: sometimes all relationships are affected, sometimes only one. "

No, every single thing I experience is attached to direct moments in my childhood, and is a trauma response.

Causes for BPD are stated as genetic, neurobiologic, related to neurotransmitters, and only lastly, shaped by environmental factors.

I just think it's very obvious that the symptoms that show up in BPD can also show up in C-PTSD and given my truly horrific childhood, the second diagnoses should be the obvious one. It is unfortunate it is not currently in the DMV but it will be in the next edition. So I have PTSD, yes, but I also have the subset disorder of complex ptsd.

I hope I've made things clear?

 

[anthony]

@conquer the information you cited above, isn't official documentation. That is the issue... in that the criteria posted online is just a few peoples opinion of what CPTSD should be, AND NOT an actual official diagnosis recognised and contained within either of the two global mental health manuals, DSM or ICD.

At present, as explained above, there are psychician's basically telling people they have CPTSD from an uncertified criterion list... in other words, lamb are following a few wolves in the industry. CPTSD has been rejected by the APA for DSM inclusion, it is unknown at this time whether the ICD will follow, OR, whether they will actually put something together that is official and create CPTSD as an officially recognised diagnosis.

Right now, the ICD 11 beta has CPTSD as a diagnosis, which links to an existing personality disorder. The ICD 11 is not due for publication until 2017, thus nothing is official until then, as they include and drop a lot of things between now and then.

As cited above already by others, complex trauma is real... they just don't have an official diagnosis to go with it. A few wolves posting such opinionated information online does not make a diagnosis.

 

[billie]

My medical records show cptsd. Anthony, if you want I can text you a pic (it has all personal information on it so I don't want it on the net). Okay, thats my input I hope not to stir up anything. Please be gentle.

 

[anthony]

@billie, lots of people have it on their medical records, but it still doesn't make it a legal diagnosis. Again, there are only two legal mental health doctrines in the world, the DSM and ICD, neither of which has this diagnosis recognised. People who use it are literally using an unsanctioned, lack of field tested diagnosis with no actual legal authentication. It cannot be used in a legal context, being insurance or courts, because it legally doesn't exist.

As you can read here from people, none of that has stopped physicians jumping onboard and telling their clients they have it. A lot of physicians are behind CPTSD, because their clients don't fit PTSD and don't fit BPD, but by definition would have to apply both, or a dissociative disorder in lieu of BPD, which they simply don't believe accurately describes the presenting symptoms. Thus... CPTSD Internet diagnosis is used.

Something will eventually evolve for complex trauma, but I'm unsure whether it will really be still trying to tap into PTSD's name, when many believe it should stand alone, and have pushed that agenda by changing it to DESNOS as an alternative, which also got rejected.

 

[billie]

I only focus on recovery, I don't have the resources to focus on politics of the disorder. All I want is to wake up one day and not have the symptoms of the cptsd.