Relationship Can we talk about cognitive distortion?

[Hojay]

And, he may not want to talk about specifics of his childhood. But you might be able to explore what he expects from people and what experiences have led him to believe what he believes.

Yes, I think when the time comes, this will be helpful. He's clammed up now about anything that has to do with "why" he is reacting this way. He just can't go there right now. Used to, so that gives me hope for the future (also he tells me he wants to.) But right now, I'm laying off any questions that veer into that area...

Another thing he keeps telling me is that all of this stuff was "adaptive" at one time.

Funny enough, we've had this conversation too! I do understand a lot more about his behavior than he realizes. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I tell him or what I know. He needs a good T to get him there.

Do you have examples of times when something he said or did WAS enough?

That's the approach I usually end up taking (which is difficult when he's having a panic attack over something I supposedly did.) But I do try telling him examples to prove his distortion, well, distorted. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes he'll just find other distortions. So I've tried just not engaging them. Really it's a lose-lose. It's starting to feel like there is nothing I can do, but sit on the rollercoaster and watch it happen (or get out, of course, always an option, but man :( )

Ugh...I feel like all of my questions on this forum lately always end up with one answer: He needs to go back to therapy. One of the few things I have absolutely no control over (nor want to.) I can walk out, engage, disengage, if he's not in therapy, it's all useless :(

 

[grimalkin]

Ugh...I feel like all of my questions on this forum lately always end up with one answer: He needs to go back to therapy. One of the few things I have absolutely no control over (nor want to.) I can walk out, engage, disengage, if he's not in therapy, it's all useless

Yup. That's the emotional merry-go-round I try to stifle. "But if he'd get therapy, there'd be hope!" But he's not in therapy, probably never will be, so there is no hope for my sufferer and I. So, I just get on board a little more each day that we're done being a couple, and that in reality, he can't deal with being a couple anyway. At least anymore, not with me.

I just realized it's been a little over a year since he "finalized" our "end." And I'm still emotional over it. Oy!

 

[Snowflakes]

Nothing to add, just want to thank @Hojay and @scout86 for a very insightful discussion. I share Hojay’s concerns so this has helped to look at things differently.

 

[Tinyflame]

@Hojay , I didn't mean to infer it had anything to do with your particular responses in any specific conversation, I meant without creating or having an environment that feels safe, (truthfully) trusting, and non-confrontational, I think there's little ability to try to find and dismantle cognitive distortions- the brain is saying 'flee'! So, putting it positively- finding 'another way' as you called it, or a new script as Scout said- might begin with that first step, of creating what makes using higher analytical thinking even possible? Maybe that is the missing link? (ie the right approach, wrong preparation- Like trying to swim wearing boots and a winter coat.)

This is a guess, but I don't think that's what he's thinking. First, the "script" in this case goes back to his childhood. That's probably where he's at, mentally, when you guys are having these situations. I think what he expects to happen is he'll try to explain, it won't be good enough, no one will listen, whoever he's talking to will be angry, and life will be hell. And there's not a thing in the world he can do to change it, he's just stuck.

^^ Totally agree. That can take a lifetime to realize, face, pick apart, understand and then overcome, for anyone, IMHO.

Now, I'm NOT saying that's rational, or that it's what's actually going on, in your version of reality. Just that I suspect that's something like what's going on for him. I don't think he, in any way, thinks he's "winning" these encounters. He's not getting what he wants at all. And neither are you.

Yes. And it takes, what? Ten-20 positive comments to over-ride one negative, and a person has received 10's of 1000's of those.

You can only meet him where he is, and feeling like it's/ he's not enough probably just may indicate he's giving it (you) his all. I'm not sure most persons could explain well all of the above and every impact and effect from their childhood on, very well, so this may not yet be the time for explanations. But maybe he might be more receptive to looking at his beliefs or how & by what his thinking is influenced when he's feeling safe and therefore won't be directed by panic, etc.

I guess my analogy is he will never be able to 'see' the cognitive distortions until he feels safe and capable enough to open his eyes, something which will be affected situationally and has no quick fix.

I also find I have enough of my own cognitive distortions to work on , than worrying about any other's. In doing so, paradoxically, others work on their own more because I am not blaming them, and they trust my input more because I trust myself.

Trust yourself. :hug:

 

[Snowflakes]

I guess my analogy is he will never be able to 'see' the cognitive distortions until he feels safe and capable enough to open his eyes, something which will be affected situationally and has no quick fix.

So, not asking for Hojay but asking for me since my “issue” is closely related to what Hojay is going through.....are you saying that a sufferer truly does not have the ability to know they are wrong from my perspective who knows what they say is not factually true? If this is the case, then I need to learn more patience.

This is an honest question from my heart.

 

[Tinyflame]

are you saying that a sufferer truly does not have the ability to know they are wrong from my perspective

@Snowflakes could you re-phrase the question for me? :confused: Do you mean, does a sufferer really believe, and is unable to see otherwise, what you as a supporter know is factually untrue?

 

[Snowflakes]

@Junebug yes

 

[Snowflakes]

@Junebug I’m afraid you’ll say yes to the question which will make me realize that trying to argue or make them understand is as unfair to them as it would be to argue or try to make understand to, say, a person suffering from dementia. At that instant, neither has the ability to know what I want to know.

I hope that makes sense. It’s my struggle now.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @Snowflakes , exactly. And as someone who works with those with dementia I don't say that without intimately seeing and knowing the comparison.

The biggest difference to me is, one needs a state of relative peace to- Idk the words- get out of Reptile Brain to Reasoning Ability . (That's what I mean by situational). How do you reach someone in a panic attack? By helping them to calm, discussion can have a place later. I think it's the same reason Beta Blockers work for many to reduce ptsd-nightmares, etc.

(And as a side note, the same approach- trusting presence, calm, listening first, respect, etc, works well with dialing it down then connecting with people with dementia as well. Hence why music, dolls etc can work- temporarily, it will rarely last, unless it was always a place of comfort. But that will distract-not connect. But trust, hugs, listening, respect, laughter, time, genuine care- makes greater inroads.)

Sorry @Hojay - I will shut up. :speechless: Back to your thread, but thank you for your perspective.

I think myself with ptsd, I'd say I'm in my right mind- except when I'm not. :meh: Is there confirmation bias on my part? Idk, when terrified or triggered it doesn't feel necessary to me to look farther.

But that's not always fair to others. :(

 

[Hojay]

Please continue the convo @Snowflakes and @Junebug, it's all super interesting and relevant!

Quickly too:

"But if he'd get therapy, there'd be hope!" But he's not in therapy, probably never will be, so there is no hope for my sufferer and I.

Ugh, I feel for you, grimalkin. Not to use some trite or offensive comparison, but it's a bit like watching someone grope helplessly around a dark room when the light switch is Right. There! You're watching and you Just. Want. To. Press. It. For. Them. It's so frustrating. There's the light switch, gosh darnit!! I'm rambling, but only because I know how it feels. It's immensely painful to have to lose a relationship because of something that wasn't done, as opposed to something that was done...

I meant without creating or having an environment that feels safe, (truthfully) trusting, and non-confrontational, I think there's little ability to try to find and dismantle cognitive distortions- the brain is saying 'flee'!

Ah, ok, I understand what you're saying. Yes, I think part of our problem now is that he has felt "unsafe" talking about things in the past. There used to be a dynamic where he would outright scream, rant, become verbally abusive, then end the conversation abruptly. I wasn't aware enough of my own boundaries at that point and made the mistake of attempting to make myself heard after the conversation ended. (My thought process was something like, "you're not getting away with this!! You can't speak to me like that and then run away!! *$(@$" Yes, that's how furious I was.) He gathered that I was "not letting him calm down," ergo, I'm unsafe.

I mean, he understood why this was happening and got his side of this dynamic to a certain degree, or else we wouldn't still be together. So that's that. And my approach has also changed dramatically.

But he is still stuck in the fear that it may continue to happen, which is keeping him (at least that's what he says,) from talking. So in a way, I get his fear, but it's also a little frustrating because hiding behind that fear at this point sounds a bit like he's is not taking a whole lot of responsibility for how he himself played a big part in creating an unsafe environment for himself (by treating me in ways that would make anybody feel unsafe.)

In the end, I feel like this all boils down to the notion of "control" and him not recognizing that he actually has it.

Either way, my approach now is to just acknowledge our past dynamic and my part in it and assure him things have changed. I also don't push, ask too many questions. I react kindly to his emotions, have better boundaries myself and give him space when he needs it. So I think I'm doing my part in creating a safe environment now.

All of that is very hard though when his cognitive distortions keep poking the bear (me.) So in lieu of my old reaction (counter attack!) I want to continue learning about better ways of keeping boundaries, but engaging, without having to over-use my safeword when he, in his mind, is trying to "tell me how he feels." (In my mind it's more personal attacks, complete twisting of my words and actions, and me having to defend myself for things I never said until he eventually panics and has to call the convo off.)

 

[scout86]

a bit like watching someone grope helplessly around a dark room when the light switch is Right. There!

I can see how it must look like that. How about if the potential for a light switch is there, but it's in pieces and you have to reassemble it before you can use it? When the stress level is high, it would be like trying to do that really fast, with someone screaming at you to hurry up because something bad is happening. When the stress level is low, you might actually hear someone say, "Hey, I think maybe one of the pieces you need is over here, by the door."

 

[Hojay]

I can see how it must look like that. How about if the potential for a light switch is there, but it's in pieces and you have to reassemble it before you can use it?

I grossly oversimplified here, of course, just for general frustration rant purposes :) I'm sorry if it sounded dismissive of the actual fact reality, which I know is horrific for my sufferer, and everyone else. You're right, it's obviously counterproductive to advise when he's already stressed. That I can wrap my head around. It's when the stress level is low and it goes somewhat like this...

"Hey, have you thought about that part of the light switch there?"
*feels for the part in the dark*
"Interesting. But I'll keep reinventing the laws of physics and electromagnetic radiation right now, thank you."

...that watching him grope around in the dark room is intensely frustrating :)