Relationship Can we talk about cognitive distortion?

[Buttercup]

triggered by conflict

Is that a thing, being triggered by conflict? Or is it common?

 

[Buttercup]

If someone is triggered by conflict can they also have a cognitive distortion around that as you wrote above @lostforgottensoul - "she thinks I'm a horrible person "

 

[Hojay]

That's a little different. That seems like it might be more him being triggered by conflict, or something like that.

a cognitive distoration is more like a thought. Like mind reading "she think's I'm a horrible person". Or something like that.

Yes, interesting! I think it might be both. I'm starting to see a bit of a timeline here. The cognitive distortions happen relatively early. Because it's difficult to differentiate between a distortion and disagreement when either is presented relatively calmly, I engage in explaining and arguing (thinking we're actually getting somewhere at this point.) He is still somewhat collected, so I don't see a reason to call the conversation off. But once I argue too much or disagree too vehemently, or don't validate his distorted view, or ask one too many questions, we're in conflict, which serves as a trigger.

This is SUPER helpful in making me think about where and when best to set my boundaries.

If conflict is a trigger though...I'm in trouble...

 

[lostforgottensoul]

s that a thing, being triggered

You can be triggered by any sight, sound, taste, smell, or situation (like conflict). So, yes, conflict can be a trigger.

If someone is triggered by conflict can they also have a cognitive distortion around that

Yep, sure can. They can come at anytime about anything for any reason. And they can come more then one at once as well. But, that itself would not trigger a panic attack for me. They are thoughts that I preceive as reality when they aren't. But I am unsure they themselves have triggered a panic attack but if they did, that's still a trigger.

 

[Hojay]

And what @Buttercup said. I think conflict may be a trigger because of a mix of cognitive distortion ("she's blaming me for all the evil that's ever happened to me") plus past conflicts which were actually abuse?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

If conflict is a trigger though...I'm in trouble...

Keep in mind that you are not responsible in managing or avoiding triggers. He is. Don't try to take that on as that's not yours to take. As sufferers, we are to manage our own triggers. Meaning, if conflict is a trigger you don't need to avoid conflict. He needs to identify his triggers and manage them.

ETA: Is he is therapy?

 

[Hojay]

Thank you @lostforgottensoul, I do need to remind myself of that periodically. Funny enough, we had a conversation about just that earlier. It was a bit of an uphill battle because he vehemently tried to argue that I'm somehow co-responsible for his panic attacks. I told him in no uncertain terms that I may not do everything right, but that his panic attacks or triggers are his to manage. He wasn't delighted, but finally agreed.

Therapy? He was for two years until his last one screwed up majorly and now he's afraid of therapy and therapists in general. No therapy for a year now...and it shows. I have no idea if and when he'll go back, nor do I have any control over it. It's the worst. But I can see that none of this will get better if he doesn't :(

 

[grimalkin]

I'm more than willing to own my part. If I misunderstood something, didn't listen right, interpreted something wrong--sure, I'll cop to it. That's my downfall. I can be very quick to second guess myself with him. I want to listen and be constructive, own my part, and grow from it. That's a dangerous approach sometimes when the other is a distorted mirror.

The other day he was screaming stuff at me, and not an agitated, general anxiety kind of scream, an accusatory one. I asked him why he had to scream these things at me. He burst into tears and said "I'm not screaming...why would you think I'm screaming. I'm trying to tell you how I feel. I'm not mad at you. I'm really all alone in the world here." *shuts down*

So familiar! I very much want to take responsibility for my own shit. If I'm unintentionally hurting someone, I want to know so I can stop whatever it is I'm doing to hurt them. Misinterpreting something? Tell me so I can understand!
But then, when you start dealing with actual triggers, that I am definitely NOT intentionally pushing at, it's a different kettle of fish. That's part of my problem with him overall - in retrospect, there were times he was clearly dealing with triggers that HE KNEW were triggers, but would not tell me about - so I'd do/say something, he'd be triggered, would get pissy, but wouldn't tell me why, or even that he was triggered.

So I just thought I pissed him off, and wanted to know how to not do that again. Because by that point, he had me convinced that I just didn't know how to communicate with him, or read him, or pay attention to him, or remember anything. So yeah, give someone (me) an already too people-pleasing urge, a distorted mirror...*sighs*

Which went along (and goes along) with the "I'm not screaming!" and "I'm not mad! Quit trying to assign emotions to me!" Buddy, I know what rage and disgust look like. And if you aren't feeling rage and disgust, then you better tell your face that. And your voice.

To take my own ownership, I did allow him to go unchallenged when he'd try to make it seem like it was alllll me - my bad memory, my inability to communicate, my reliance on past experience (OH how he hates people relying on their own experiences! Ironic, that....), or on OUR past experience (he also hates the idea of past behavior being a good indicator of future behavior) to try to negotiate and navigate the present.

 

[Freida]

If conflict is a trigger though...I'm in trouble...

Not necessarily. If you can (both) identify that conflict is the trigger you can work with that by setting ground rules. We had to learn them because while I wasn't as angry as your hubby I did have the "you are not listening to me!!!" distortion. So I would yell and he would get all passive aggressive and we would get no where. We finally agreed to do marriage counseling because we needed to learn to fight more productively.

and that might help with this....

No therapy for a year now...and it shows.

A bad therapist sucks and can totally mess you up so I can see why he would be afraid. But. He needs to recognize that he is hurting you - especially if he doesn't get it. That's a conversation for when you are both calm.
Some of the things our counselor suggested....and we implemented while we were in a good place:

Fights have a timeline. 15 minutes and you go to your own corner. Wait 30 minutes and then try again. Never fight for more than 15 minutes because you will get so caught up in the fight you will forget what you are fighting about

Writing down what you want to say. No talking allowed. Exchange notes. Wait. Write response. Wait. Exchange notes and so on

You are not allowed to say "you" As in "you make me mad" or "you are going to leave me". All sentences started with "I" I feel like, I think, I believe. It's a semantics trick that forces you to own what you are saying to another person. (this one made me crazy but it is effective)

finally -- either person can call a time out and it MUST be respected. And the person who calls it ends it.

All of these are basically designed to give you cooling off time so you don't keep escalating the argument.

And though he hates the idea of counseling he may have to accept that you need him to go to marriage counseling for you. Then you are going as a team that want to identify issues they can work on to improve their marriage. Not to pick apart his past, or his ptsd or whatever. But to give both a chance to learn to communicate/fight more effectively.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

What an awesone reply @Freida! I can see this working in any sort of relationship. I was just thinking of my dad and step mom whom lived with me for 8 yrs. We have gotten into countless screaming matches that lasted hours. I was just thinking how much all of that would have helped us and would of stopped the downward spiral our relationship took. Wow, what awesome ideas!

 

[Freida]

LOL yea- we had a pretty spectacular counselor. And looking back I was NOT easy for her to deal with LOL

 

[Hojay]

@grimalkin Creepy how similar all of the above sounds. I mean, mine is trying his best to communicate and is willing to self-reflect and take some responsibility, but it's all just an epic battle all. the. time. He's so stubborn. But yes, the combo of people-pleasing and having a bad mirror isn't a good one. I'm definitely less of a people pleaser than I was a few years back, but I'm still trying to find the right balance between owning my own shit and having someone use that trait against me. All I know is that he's not doing it purposefully or consciously, so that at least gives me some faith in his basic character. But yeah...


@Freida, wow, what awesome practical advice!! The writing instead of talking and giving time limits to fights are GREAT ideas! I will test them out for sure. We already both have safe words to use when we need to end the conversation and "I" statements all-round. But I think these tools will help us both feel a little more in control in those moments.

But. He needs to recognize that he is hurting you - especially if he doesn't get it. That's a conversation for when you are both calm.

Sadly, he does recognize it. And he feels wretched for it. We've talked about his having to go back to therapy. He knows I will never push him to, but he also knows that I myself will have to make a choice if I can be with untreated PTSD. He gets it, also that he should go back. But he's simply. too. afraid. What happened to him with that last therapist alone would have been enough to land someone in the sufferer section of this forum. So essentially, it's starting to feel like therapists are somewhat of a trigger now.

And he's torn. Because he knows he will lose me if he doesn't go back into treatment, but he's abjectly terrified of it. And so he's paralyzed.

And though he hates the idea of counseling he may have to accept that you need him to go to marriage counseling for you.

Marriage counseling would be the best thing that could happen to us. But because of ^ and the fact that he doesn't see how his issues wouldn't come up in there (which I can't convince him wouldn't have to be the case) is making it hard to bring up right now. Again, he knows it's the right thing to do and he feels awful that he's too scared.

So I'm stuck in the middle, supporting my partner who's gone through a (re-)traumatizing experience and insisting he should go back to therapy. Ugh...