Relationship Can we talk about cognitive distortion?

[scout86]

Freida, do you come to a place later when you realize you were triggered?

Can I answer that? For me, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. Now, because of stuff I've learned in therapy, I'm examining stuff closer and questioning what's going on. Before I learned some things, I had absolutely no idea what was actually going on. Now, it does require the time and space to reflect on things. You can't sort this stuff out very well, under pressure.

 

[Buttercup]

Can I answer that? For me, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. Now, because of stuff I've learned in...

Sure you can answer! Much appreciated. Yeah, I can see the need for time and space to reflect and sort it all out. That makes total sense. For me and on my side of things , the amount of time it takes can be agonizing! Your post here is a good reminder to me that time and space is very much required.

 

[Tinyflame]

I don't blame him for his limitations

He might sense you feel this way, and his 'limitations' are his new normal. At least for now, sometimes nearly forever.

And sometimes they may get worse, and likely up and down.

It's not so much just not knowing 'what' to do, but finding a way to try. Like @scout86 or @shimmerz said, eg safety.

 

[Freida]

Freida, do you come to a place later when you realize you were triggered?

@

@scout86 was dead on. Sometimes yes, some times no. Sometimes I know I've been triggered but I have no idea why. And the hardest part is you cant stop a trigger. It just has to run its course. And sometimes when I look back I have no idea what the trigger was.

it's kind of remarkable how much insight you have into what's going on on the other end.

Three -- count them three! rounds of marriage counseling. I got some insight from doing my own therapy but most of it came from couples counseling because he got to talk about how what I said sounded to him. It wasn't really about me at that point.

What does hubby do, may I ask, when this happens?

Usually he just stops talking to me. He's pretty passive aggressive - which makes me nuts. But he can see the futility of arguing with me. And I know it's not easy for him because he is also analytical so when A+B=46blue** he gets frustrated. Marriage counseling taught me that when he stops talking I have to let it go -- not always easy because then I don't feel like he heard me. I let it go because I know I'm supposed to (and I agreed to) - but I usually have no idea why he is suddenly done talking to me. We may or may not come back to it -- depending on what "it" was

I think he wants to and I think he thinks he is

Nope - sorry but that's a cop out. If he wanted to he would. He knows he can only fix this thru counseling. I'm not blaming him....today I have counseling and I would quite frankly rather drink bleach than go because I know it is going to SUCK. But i also know that it is the only way I can someday have a real life. I'm triggered as all get out right now from something that happened last night and I know that I have to face it to stop it. I also have to be aware to think before I speak because I know I'm uber bitchy because of it and it wouldn't take much to send me into fight mode

Luckily I have a counselor now that I like but it took a few tries to find one. I get that he got re traumatized by therapy --and I do sympathize. That's why I think marriage counseling is a good idea. I learned skills to save our marriage long before I learned skills to save me because it was about the marriage... not about what was wrong with Freida. That's the point I'm hoping you can get across to him -- its about learning communication skills to save the relationship - not picking apart how you ended up there.

 

[scout86]

I would quite frankly rather drink bleach than go

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: Boy is THAT ever the truth! (Have a good day anyhow!)

 

[Hojay]

Three -- count them three! rounds of marriage counseling.

Alright, that's a lot of work. BUT I'd still like to say that it takes a whole lot of empathy, compassion, and selflessness to even be willing to go there--understand the other side--so really, that's pretty special :)

Usually he just stops talking to me. He's pretty passive aggressive - which makes me nuts.

Interesting, I think my partner would say the exact same thing when I just stop talking to him. Passive aggressive. But really it's the safest, most effective way to keep both sides from escalating. It's really the most loving thing I can do for myself and him in that moment--just stop. Because he can't and he won't, so I have to. It drives him nuts and usually makes it worse for HIM when I do that (i.e. it triggers him,) but it's either that...or have him boil over with me to blame for it in his mind. That won't show him where he's stuck either...so.

A+B=46blue**

This. Everything I wrote about what happens, and why, and what it looks like. Nah. This sums it all up. Enough said. :)

I let it go because I know I'm supposed to (and I agreed to) - but I usually have no idea why he is suddenly done talking to me.

My partner is very, very confused when I stop talking to him--because really, the unacceptable stuff (the stuff I see us not coming back from in that convo) happens way sooner than he thinks. A word, illogical conclusions, sudden flares of anger, a look in his eyes, just a teeny hunch that he's got his panties in a bunch...and I'm out. I'm not trying to prove a point or "educate" when I do this. I just that I've been down that road, seen the sights, written a postcard home, and feel no need to go back.

I learned skills to save our marriage long before I learned skills to save me because it was about the marriage...

I need to tell him this. Yes. Because it should be absolutely possible to go through couples counseling without having to unpack his stuff. I'm just wondering, if it's too difficult for him to talk to me about a stressful day without having a panic attack...how will he sit in a room and listen to me reflect his stuff back to him without having a major episode? Plus, every time I bring up therapy our couples counseling he loses a little more trust in me that I truly understand what that therapist did to him (we're not talking about bad therapy here; we're talking medical board report worthy stuff) I DO understand, but I don't see any other way than for him to go back into treatment. Then again, someone else on here pointed out that I'm not qualified to determine what is "best for him." So really...I'm at a total impasse here. Ugh....

 

[Hojay]

It's not so much just not knowing 'what' to do, but finding a way to try. Like @scout86 or @shimmerz said, eg safety.

I'm not sure I understand Junebug. You mean it's not about what, but how? Other than giving him space when he asks for it, speaking calmly and kindly, listening, being there with him when he can't speak, not lose my temper, and validate that he's allowed to feel how he feels, what else would you say is necessary for safety?

 

[grimalkin]

Our couples counseling was probably the worst thing we could have done, when it comes to "saving" our marriage; but, it was the best thing when it came to saving myself.

Without my sufferer dealing with his stuff (IE being in therapy to at least DEVELOP tools), he just does not have the tools to be in a mutually respectful, loving, sharing, equal relationship. He would dissociate during every session and was triggered by (or at least it seemed he was triggered...regardless, he was dissociating) the tools most marriage therapists use for communication. There has to be a certain baseline, each person has to have the tools, to be able to communicate. Which requires work to even get there.

If every attempt at communication ends up "I can't because of my PTSD," at some point the question has to be "Then what are you doing to deal with your PTSD?" Without the tools to deal with all the emotional stuff that marriage counseling brings up, someone who suffers from PTSD probably isn't going to be able to cope.

And that's where the hard decisions come in. I know I rant about how I was abandoned when I needed him the most...but really, had he not decided to end things, I probably would have, myself. Because he simply can't/won't deal with his stuff, while expecting me to be cured of mine. At some point my own survival instinct would have kicked in - or at least I hope it would have. :whistling::wtf:

 

[Snowflakes]

"I can't because of my PTSD,"

I bought into this for a long time. I think I actually started to believe it to be true

At some point my own survival instinct would have kicked in - or at least I hope it would have.

It would have. I remember your story well since we arrived here at the same time. I think all losses take time to come to terms with but a loss that leaves you with unanswered questions is much more difficult. It’s been a rough year for you in that sense.

Your insight has helped me this past year. Thank you.

Gentle hug if appropriate and you accept.

 

[Tinyflame]

By 'how' vs 'what' @Hojay I mean one has to find the ways, or what is needed. For example, everyone who smokes who wants to quit knows just don't light up. Now, how to accomplish that?

what else would you say is necessary for safety?

This is probably not going to make sense, or be very helpful (I'm sorry :( ), but this is all that comes to me, by way of explanation:
A good friend had a cat I loved. The family brought their big, but good dog. The cat was terrified and ended up on the kitchen counter, looking like a cartoon drawing- hair sticking straight up, back up, terribly shaking. I knew if I touched it it would likely freak out and go ballistic, cat owners said later, yes of course it would scratch you all up. I knew it likely- in fact highly probable, and I wouldn't blame it. So what did I do- touch it and talk to it. I didn't just hope it wouldn't go ballistic, because I expected it would, but I just felt so bad/ sad for it, seeing it suffering so. And it did nothing. The dog left the house. Minutes later the owner & I were talking at the kitchen door, and it jumped off the counter, over our heads, and landed on top of the kitchen door, at least a 10 foot flight (but when I think about it- in our direction).

I guess why it didn't attack me was the same reason I couldn't help but touch it- 100's of times of being gentle and never hurting. Somewhere despite it's terror and reactivity it recognized the threat wasn't coming from me.

 

[mumstheword]

Stabilization and sense of safety have to come first before any other demands or pressures are put apon a sufferer.

Asking for information, clarification, communication, consideration, action, all these things can be felt as if they are a demand, a pressure, a "too big" ask.

The only way I have been able to engage and develop a beautiful, trusting, healing relationship with my own suffering SO, (also a sufferer myself) is by putting sense of safety, understanding and respect for his limitations and sometimes hypervigilant and reactive "boundary setting", positive regard and understanding of; needs for space, triggers, his process and pace, my own self protective boundaries - compassion, understanding and forgiveness for both of us, first.

Unfortunately if you don't have the same condition, you will be needing plenty of insight and support in the supportive, understanding creation of yourself as his "safe person", which you are doing here but it's a big task and your mental well-being comes first, no hope in helping him with his, otherwise.

Of course if he lacks self-awareness, maturity and self-responsibility, there's nothing you can do to fill that gap or compensate, just model self care, keep putting your calm and kind boundaries in and work on lots of kindness to yourself.
You are awesome @Hojay ! Deep down he knows it but his shame and sense of inadequacy is causing him to lash out at you.

It's a very emotional response and not something you can calmly and rationally explain to him, that will just activate it more, he'll feel your being condescending and feel belittled and gaslit (not rational, I know but that's the nature of this beast).

Instead, fun times; joking, flirting, eating yummy food together, watching something "safe" or his choise, step into the world of "what makes life worth living" for him, any hobbies? Passion-invoking topics, you can listen to him talk about and listen with interest? etc etc, get my drift?

 

[Hojay]

Thank you @mumstheword, your post really laid it out quite beautifully. :)