Can You Pray?

[Deleted member 5760]

I think my form of prayer is meditation.

I was never shoved into church as a kid. We only ever went for weddings or funerals. I found 'my god'/spirituality of my own free will later in life. I wouldn't call myself any 'faith'. I only believe in one 'heaven' which means to me it doesnt matter if I call that universal divine power 'god, 'buddha', 'islam' etc. I personally identify a little more with eastern philosophies of religion. But that might have a little something to do with the fact I'm gay. So I don't need some preacher telling me I'm wrong and I'm an 'abomination'. I absolutely believe in 'god' - I just don't give him/her a name. Maybe it's even me.

 

[anni]

I don't know what I'd do if I didn't believe, or think God heard me, it's kind of an unfathomable thought. Belief isn't some big Dad in the sky who is going to take care of everything-it's a way of being, of perceiving the entire planet. I also don't know why the whole subject is so given to controversy, even wars fought over the question of religion. You can't bludgeon someone else into thinking the way you do. It seems to me everyone is sort of called to believe in their own way, whatever that is and under what name. It's awfully personal, this relationship one has with God. One can only define it for oneself, I think, in the end.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think actions and love mean a lot.

 

[jesse]

This is a sensitive topic for me. My mother and stepfather are "born again" christians and used that to brainwash, manipulate, and mentally torture me as a kid. I really don't trust people who call themselves christian. I cringe when I read people spouting off bible quotes in these posts. I have seen a lot of very sick people hide behind this and use religion to justify abuse and bigotry. I oscillate between being an atheist and agnostic. I want to believe but the faith isn't there. I don't like to use the term "god" but prefer "creator" because when I lived on an indian reservation this is the term native americans used. I felt comfortable with my indian friends who were spiritual and did not experience judgemental attitudes. I pray to the creator sometimes but its a weird feeling when you want to have faith but don't.

 

[just me here]

This is a sensitive topic for me......... I don't like to use the term "god" but prefer "creator"

Right on.

I saw a bumpersticker that said "100% agnostic, I don't know for sure and neither do you".

Hard to argue that opinion, it is true for me, 100% percent. I have parents that are 100% the opposite direction, they have their beleifs and like wise it is hard to argue with their opinion. But in their case it is unarguable because they have been told and beleive that even thinking about the possibility that their religion might be missing the mark, that maybe there is an alternative interpretation of the book they beleive in, or that they might be being led by a person with self serving motives is the start of a slippery slope that leads straight to hair pulling eternal suffering hell.

This may be an unpopular opionion, but here it is, offered in a way that will hopefully loosen the grip of some very oppressive religions on some of us that might need to place a little more hope in themselves and a little less in the big guy in the sky.

There is one thing I know for sure about the universe, it is a huge place. I am very small in comparison.

There is one thing about my sphere of influence that I know for sure, it is very small. The Universe is huge in comparison.

Just the difference in scale is enough to convince me that I can't put my faith in prayer. I choose to put my faith in positive thought, and that is what prayer is (by definition) so maybe prayer is a good thing, unless it becomes a detour for positive thoughts that need to be put to use instead of deposited like coins in a piggy bank into some kind of "spiritual bank account".

I don't want to strip anyone of their beleifs, I know that religious beleifs run deep and give strength and hope to so many, I would be wrong to come to a place like this forum and start trying to kick the foundations out from under anyone here, we all need as much support as we can get.

I won't argue your beleifs, I just want to share my mine and only because I have been a happier person since I arrived at them.

But I would argue that the simple act of getting up from being down on your knees might just offer you more personal and 'spiritual' good than the words you said while you were down there. Maybe next time, stand on your own feet and see if the positive thoughts might do more good if you try to make them a positive reality inside your own sphere of influence.

So no, I cannot pray. But I probably ask for the same things that people who pray ask for, I just ask myself if I can make it happen here in my little space alone.

 

[sky dancer]

I'm very moved by this thread. My CPTSD was diagnosed a year after coming out of a two plus years full time Buddhist meditation retreat.

In Buddhist terms, its as if this deep internal work I was doing brought up to the surface issues I thought I had long since dealth with.

My relationship to my Buddhist community has been strained. After my retreat, what triggered the PTSD was repeated verbal abuse and assault by an estranged member of my Buddhist community. That really complicated things. My Lama was unavailable in his own retreat and I felt hung out to dry.

I'm someone who had previously functioned well as a social worker and counselor. As my PTSD caem to the surface, i started having problems on the job with authority figures. I percieved my bosses as 'trying to f*ck iwth my head' which I see know, is a feeling from my childhood, and the mental cruelty and sadism inflicted on my when I was a child.

I had a previously well established meditation practice and many years of experience but I was cut off from my resources. I couldn't meditate. I couldn't go to my Buddhist center because I was terrified I would run into my perpetrator and I had a three year restraining order on him. I asked the Buddhist community if they would facilitate some kind of counseling or mediation with my perpetrator and they refused. It was thought by them that my perpetrator was in much more need of them, than I was, because I'd been such a long term meditator.

Short version. I no longer practice with that community. It is hard for me to meditate in the manner in which I was trained.

I am now involved in another modality that integrates, feldenkrais awareness through movement sessions, guided inquiry called focusing and zen meditation. I also take medication for depression and see a therapist who specialies in PTSD and EMDR.

I think sometimes you have to be very expanisve about what your spiritual pracitce is. Anything you now do to help yoruself can be a spiritual practice and of benefit to others. We have to include ourselves in kindness and healing.

I wish you well. I'm thinking of you and feeling solidarity with your dilemna.

sky dancer

I

 

[Pink77]

"Ok...been thinking on this issue a lot...."

1. IS this a problem, or just a fantasy? (y = go to step OR 2. No = action required..distraction needed)
2. Is this problem MY problem? (y = go to step 3. OR No = action required...letting go)
3. Can I DO anything about this problem? (y = go to step 4. OR No = action required...letting go)
4. Am I WILLING to take this action? (y = go to step 5. OR No = action required...let it go already!)
5. Is this action a RISK for me or of me to others? (y = go to step 5. OR No = action required...seek council from mentor a.s.a.p., distract self until then)
6. Can I mitigate this risk? (y = take action OR No = action...seek council)
7. Take Action (y = do it! OR No = let it go already, darn it! Go do something enjoyable, or distracting )

Hope this makes sense. Mapping one's thoughts in this manner isn't easy for me. :p

I love this "process of elimination" BloominWinter. This is a great way to analyze different situations and decide how to proceed without feeling overwhelmed. I hope you don't mind if I borrow this? I've usually started with question #2 and go from there, but I don't go into as much detail as you do. Thanks so much for sharing! :D Hugs, Pink

 

[BloomInWinter]

I hope you don't mind if I borrow this?

Please do! I'm sure I stole it from someone somewhere. ;)

 

[Pink77]

Please do! I'm sure I stole it from someone somewhere. ;)

Thanks! I'm going to bring it to show my counselor and maybe tweak it a little for my situation. I'm so glad I came across it! Have a warm and safe holiday! Pink

 

[seedling]

Getting caught up on this thread again, I think I missed a bunch in Nov. All great posts.

I finally talked to my T about this as he said about something else "that sounds like a spiritual thing" and we went on to the disconnnection from praying part of it from there. He told me it would get better, he didn't know how or when, but it would. This was reassuring to hear - I think I asked him over and over "really," "are you sure"?:)

Reading all the posts I'm reminded of a point C.S. Lewis makes in his book "The Problem of Pain." He says that hell is locked from the inside. Because pain and trouble in life can result in rebellion and bitterness, some people stop there and end up miserable, never getting over/past or dealing with their problems.

I think that we can lock ourselves in hell whatever faith we do or do not profess. I think just being here on the forum shows that we want to reach forward for something better, to get on with getting better.

As a minister, my dad always emphasized the great mystery of whatever God was. That it was too much for us to know and that we were unable to fully comprehend it. God was always good when I was growing up. He was never used as a way to punish us. I have a friend who looked surprised when I said I had missed church one week, then she said, "Oh, yeah, you don't go to hell in your religion for missing church one Sunday." She never uses the words God, Jesus, etc when referring to her spirituality.

I like what I heard an older Mormon woman say on TV once. She was doing something not sanctioned by her church but she wasn't going to quit her religion. She kept doing what she wanted and said "I'm too old to learn someone else's mumbo-jumbo." So, I have my own mumbo-jumbo, and it's seems to be similar to a lot of other people's different mumbo-jumbos:).

 

[Pink77]

There are so many religions and so many people in the world that whatever works for a person spiritually is what matters. I've got 4 different religions in my family and we all do fine with each other's choice, respecting each other's choice. We've seen how each faith has sustained the person during difficult times, so who are we (my family members) to question that it isn't the right choice for that person to be Catholic, Jewish, Buddhist, etc. For me, I've always believed that there is enough suffering here on earth, and we can choose to suffer or do something about our circumstances to make it a more pleasant life. We only get one shot at life so why not make it what you want? My Reverend told me once, "Life is messy, why not be happy anyway?" I thought about how simple that was, but how hard it is to actually practice it. But the more I practice it, the easier it gets. I want to die with as few regrets as possible, so since the first half of my life was a lot of suffering, the second half I'm choosing to be a lot more pleasant with whatever faith/religion/combination of several religions that will make me happy.

People seem to get hung up on just having one "religion", when one's "faith" is so much broader and in depth. It is unfortunate that so many wars have been over religion, or fights, bigotry, etc. That is so sad to me, because the human race can even treat itself as human beings with feelings, beliefs, etc. and allow others to have their own beliefs, thoughts, opinions.

But whatever your belief (religion), if it works for you and makes you happy, that's whats important. Not what anyone else thinks. It's your life!