Can't Stop Desiring You-know-who

[shimmerz]

I sort of envy his invincibility to pain, passion, fear, attachment, shame, self consciousness.

A girlfriend and I just had a conversation about this. The question...
If you had the choice and were able to come back 'next life' (if you don't believe this, just pretend), would you come back as a narc or sociopath? If so, what characteristics would you take from this guy and use in the next life? Why?>

That should give you something to chew on for a while Dana. Really turn it over .... let me know where that gets you.....

 

[Dana1010]

@shimmerz, In nonpsychopath incarnation, when asked if I'd choose to come back as a psychopath, I heave and haw briefly but ultimately decide no. I dither because the fear free existence of the psychopath seems incredibly liberating. But then I think of all the harm I'd do over my life, and I recoil. But the point is I only recoil because at present I can't transcend my nonpsycho form and all the sticky, mucky emotions that come with it.

Anyway, I don't believe the only reason for the obsession is his psychopathy. After all, there are other psychopaths in my past whom I hate mightily bot do not desire. It's like maybe you're obsessed with someone with BPD--should you chalk the entire obsession up to BPD? I'm well aware of psychopaths' seemingly magical ability to confect a false reality and make it yours. But I feel like there must be other facets to this obsession besides his psychopath mojo. If only I could suss them out.

 

[shimmerz]

That's good to know Dana. So that is one thing (and a large thing) that the attraction 'isn't'.

desire I still feel for him after all this time

Is this a sexual desire (only or at all)?

 

[Dana1010]

Is this a sexual desire (only or at all)?

I would say romantic desire and infatuation. I can't really approach a sexual place because it becomes way too triggering, but I mean, yeah, insofar as romantic desire contains the seed of sexual desire. But remember I despise him too.

 

[shimmerz]

But remember I despise him too.

Yep, I get it. Just trying to help you zero in. This 'desire' thing stood out. Just wondering what it meant to you. :)

 

[Dana1010]

I should probably not say "romantic" desire. It's more covetousness, cupidity, the materialistic and unwholesome side of desire. I feel like he was so out of my league, there's a lot of "sparkle" there as Friday Jones noted. And for him to pretend so convincingly that he really liked me and then ruthlessly rip it out from under me... I think he represented a lot things I have always wanted and couldn't have. It reinforced the message that, "you're not good enough."

 

[Ronin]

. I dither because the fear free existence of the psychopath seems incredibly liberating. But then I think of all the harm I'd do over my life, and I recoil.

It seems you're assuming fear is anywhere on the same scale with empathy, in general, as opposed to them being different things that often mix.

You can work on fear, in any of its incarnations. You can get rid of your fear. You can't get rid of a neurotype and inability to relate to some emotional spectrums; fear has nothing to do with that.

 

[joeylittle]

The desire remains. No other suitor measures up to him. He makes everyone else seem boring. He was vastly out of my league and represents everything I want but can't have. I'm obsessed with him, and though I'm ashamed of it, and it disturbs me, and I'd die of embarrassment if he ever found out, I want him. I can't stop wanting him. In my head I see us together and then am overtaken by disgust at myself.

In my opinion, attraction has to do with what/how the other person makes us feel. As in, strangely, it's not about them. It's not strange to me that you still have desire for this person because there is a huge aspect of them that makes you feel actually good about yourself. You feel special by being his proximity/gaze - charisma is common in abusers, and it sounds like he has it. Also, you consider him to be out of your league - which means, by being with him you can believe you are in a different league -and that you have the things you always wanted.

But you've got the contradictory element of the abuse, which naturally also causes you to feel repelled.

The way to work on it, I'd think, has to do with working on your own sense of self and self-esteem. For all you know, you might be just as magnetic as you perceive him to be. You might be just as 'top league'. Actually, those things aren't anything but strong sense of self.

I don't mean to make it sound easy. I have zero sense of self most of the time. But this issue of your attraction really isn't about him - it's about you and what you are missing in your own identity that you (rightfully) crave. I think it's not a bad place to be, because at least you want to feel those things for yourself (some people just don't). You do have the grounding of a healthy ego. You can spend time cultivating it.

Just need to say it again - you aren't obsessed with him, you are craving that feeling of specialness. He's a distraction from the main thing.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

I understand how you are feeling. I have a excellent book called the Betrayal Bond by Patrick Carnes that describes your attachment and desire. It has helped me so much to deal with this when it comes up in my life. I highly recommend that you get this book because it explains everything.

 

[Dana1010]

The way to work on it, I'd think, has to do with working on your own sense of self and self-esteem. For all you know, you might be just as magnetic as you perceive him to be. You might be just as 'top league'. Actually, those things aren't anything but strong sense of self.

I think in a metaphysical sense (I think that's the word I'm looking for) you are probably right. However, in the eyes of the world, you either have it or you don't. I'm talking about things that can't really be spun--things your born into. I'll never be in his "league"--I just don't have the background, and the chances of me ever acquiring the wealth he had are approximately 0.001 in 1,000,000, so no, his world will never be open to me.

You do have the grounding of a healthy ego. You can spend time cultivating it.

Backhanded complement? :D I actually feel like my ego is the problem, like if I could get over myself, I could forget the insult, the betrayal and the constant sense that I'm not good enough for him. It's not comfortable walking around in breeches four or five or five sizes too small for you.

Just need to say it again - you aren't obsessed with him, you are craving that feeling of specialness. He's a distraction from the main thing.

I think this is a really good insight. Good to have some fresh eyes to untangle this mess for me.

@gizmo, Thanks for that suggestion. I'll look it up.

 

[camabelu]

@Dana1010 There is a website that you may find quite helpful with your struggle. It's specifically about psychopaths and love and the author (who has also published some books on the subject) is respectful and insightful. Like here, there is a lot of inter-dialogue with others on the various threads.
I wish you the best with this - it's a tough one and she really gets it. In fact, her premise is that recovering from a romantic relationship with a psychopath is unlike anything else and because this is true, different strategies must be used.
I tried sending this with the address of the site and got a message saying it contained a 'sneaky url' so I'll type it here without what comes after the dot. Add the 'com' and you should be directed to her homepage.

psychopathsandlove

 

[camabelu]

@Dana1010 For what it's worth, I wouldn't give a second thought to choosing a life as a psychopath. While there is a kind of freedom in it, it seems to me that mostly it's a freedom from a) guilt that would be appropriate and even helpful on-the-road-to-self-actualization (just check out all those Wall Street characters raking in the billions and thinking nothing of the countless families kicked out of their homes because they can't afford their mortgage payments) and b) love. Psychopaths, by their own admission - don't have the capacity to feel love. However much pain it can cause when things don't work out, I wouldn't trade the joy inherent in feeling it when things go right for all the money, and whatever else appeals, in the world.
I don't want you to think I'm being smug so I'll add that I've come out the other side of a marriage to a P. It's taken me longer than any breakup I've ever encountered; truly it is in its own league. Next to him, every other man seemed just.....blah. In fact I'm still single, but for the first time I can imagine meeting someone new and not making constant comparisons. So there's hope - there really is.