Can't Stop Desiring You-know-who

[Dana1010]

@camabelu, interesting site, though the comments are dead compared to the ones on this site. Also, her writing on the subject is a little shallow and pat in my opinion. "What they really feel for us is envy..." Uh, really? I never experienced it that way. Contempt for the emotional idiot is more like it.

Anyway, good luck with your situation. Did you ever figure out why a psychopath would get married in the first place?

 

[camabelu]

@Dana1010 Sorry the site wasn't to your liking. I haven't found her comments shallow in general at all - in fact, some good insights. But we're all different.
As to figuring out why a psychopath would marry, I haven't even bothered asking the question because plenty do. They just don't feel it's particularly meaningful - the vows mean nothing to them.

 

[Dana1010]

@camabelu, no need to apologize for the site. I didn't mean to say it was useless. There were some interesting things there, and I'm sure I'll be back. One extremely interesting thing was the post about men who call themselves pickup artists (PUAs) coming to the site to learn psychopath's manipulation tactics to get women to sleep with them. Makes me glad I don't go out these days.

 

[Dana1010]

I'm now feeling more and more like attachment disorder (concerning my dad) is a big piece of the puzzle. Is anyone in a pattern where they think their toxic relationship partner is their parent and their parent is their partner? How do you break out of that?

 

[shimmerz]

where they think their toxic relationship partner is their parent and their parent is their partner?

I am not in a relationship and choose not to be anymore. When I was this was definitely the theme. In some way they were Daddy, each in their own different ways. I am sorry Dana, I am not certain how to get out of the pattern. Just thought I would validate what your are thinking.

Is it possible that you carry around a Stockholm Syndrome type of mentality Dana?

 

[Dana1010]

Is it possible that you carry around a Stockholm Syndrome type of mentality Dana?

Yeah, definitely. I think that's a good descriptor. But more than that I think it's this belief I formed at a very early age that people who don't like me are important and I need them. I'm not an expert on child psychology, but I think when you form a belief at such a young age you have no memory of doing so it's very difficult to dislodge. I started a thread in discussion asking if anyone's tried imaginary parents. I'm experimenting with that to see if I can switch out the hateful, narcissistic parent figures in my psyche for loving ones. If I make any progress with that maybe I can start to break the bond to people who mistreat me like the one mentioned in this post as in, "Dad is nice to me, so you are obviously not my dad. I don't need you. Goodbye."

 

[shimmerz]

I have been on and off the board lately Dana. I will take a look at the thread you are referencing. Thank you. Great insight you have....

 

[ihateusernames]

There are some interesting things going on in this thread. I'll apologize ahead of time as I'm sure my response is going to be tl;dr. :P

I know that you don't agree, but I can't stop agreeing with @joeylittle in that this is a self esteem issue. It almost sounds as though you are idolizing this asshole. You say:

Also, her writing on the subject is a little shallow and pat in my opinion. "What they really feel for us is envy..." Uh, really? I never experienced it that way. Contempt for the emotional idiot is more like it.

Yet you repeatedly sing his praises throughout the thread:

He was vastly out of my league and represents everything I want but can't have.

I'll never be in his "league"--I just don't have the background, and the chances of me ever acquiring the wealth he had are approximately 0.001 in 1,000,000, so no, his world will never be open to me.

That does sound a whole lot like you felt special because somebody you maybe envy, maybe admire paid attention to you.

The thing is, there is no such thing as being out of somebody's league. Background, education, wealth, charm= nothing. Because this:

Thing is though... It's not actually a persons attributes or skills that make them special. It's the way we feel about them (and their attributes) that make them special.

I feel like the whole situation speaks to low self worth.
Actually, it's been explained to me that self esteem and self worth are totally different things, because I think the same way it seems that you also might. I think so highly of myself, how can I have self esteem issues? How can I simultaneously feel like I'm in a sense, better, than so many people. Yet also feel like I should let them run all over me? One is self esteem- I know for a fact that I am smart (sometimes), competent, and accomplished. It's easy to see, and hard to argue against. The other, self worth, is something else entirely. Something that allows you to feel worthwhile and important by nature of your being, even if you have none of those things going for you. I don't have a lot of that.

But more than that I think it's this belief I formed at a very early age that people who don't like me are important and I need them.

This, yeah, I understand this. I used to fall over myself to please people who not only couldn't care less about me, but who were openly antagonistic. It's such a frustrating pattern. Embarrassing, too. I had a friend in middle school point it out to me. She was angry with me for doing it. I couldn't stop it. It took many more years to break and even still, the pull is there.

Anyway, if you're still with me I want to also say that I don't believe that you're alone in feeling like this. I had a somewhat similar reaction to a situation with my husband, long before he was my husband. He broke my trust with another girl. He didn't sleep with her, but something extremely inappropriate occurred. And instead of having a normal reaction and being angry and/or breaking up with him, I became clingy, and attached, and obsessive. It disgusted me and I didn't understand it, but that's the way I felt. I had heightened romantic and sexual feelings toward him and poured all of my energy into him. It's a weird thing.

 

[Dana1010]

It almost sounds as though you are idolizing this asshole.

Thanks for the apt descriptor. Always good to hear. :happy:

One is self esteem- I know for a fact that I am smart (sometimes), competent, and accomplished. It's easy to see, and hard to argue against. The other, self worth, is something else entirely. Something that allows you to feel worthwhile and important by nature of your being, even if you have none of those things going for you. I don't have a lot of that.

This is a good insight I think. What you're describing as self esteem is the "good enough" thing I've been thinking about so much lately. It follows real love around as its shadow, and as soon as love fails, "good enough" rears its head and whispers in your ear, "You're not getting it because you're not good enough." And what you're describing as self worth comes from real love and since I didn't get that in my formative years, I'm now lost in this wilderness trying to be "good enough." But "good enough" is not a substitute for love which is why all the evidence I amass never gets me there; it's a treadmill.

I used to fall over myself to please people who not only couldn't care less about me, but who were openly antagonistic. It's such a frustrating pattern. Embarrassing, too.

That's how I feel about it most of the time. It's like I keep going there in my head to try to renegotiate it so I can stop feeling embarrassed.

 

[Mizzk]

When we can't stop thinking about someone even when they hurt us it's because that event or person caused a trigger in us. That trigger generally was similar to one set in childhood.

Talk therapy and friends are great but if you notice it doesn't really relieve what you're feeling it seems like a loop telling the same story to different people hoping someone has an answer that works for you.

What is most effective is hypnosis sometimes a regular session can help but regressions to the root cause is very insightful it's like a lightbulb comes on for some reason, we seem to always want to have an answer to why, instead of letting go and moving on.

Hypnosis or EMDR are both great at releasing triggers.

I find EMDR resets your emotions from a place of no past trauma.

I had a therapist who kept me in therapy longer than I needed only keeping me stuck in my story. Validating the victim mentality, I hated it and wanted answers on how to get better and not repeat past patterns.

On my own I discovered hypnosis thru regressions I found answers myself of how to be better and EMDR was the final piece that reset my emotions, so I was no longer getting triggered by my past.

It is extremely freeing, but was scary at first when you have to ask yourself who are you without your story?

My life has changed completely I'm productive, happy and getting goals accomplished. Life's too short to live in the past and keep ourselves from being the best we can be. We are our own worst enemies when we allow others to control us, allow others to erode our self esteem and frankly life's too short to waste our time thinking the opinion of some asshole really matters, because one day when you get better you'll regret all the time you wasted thinking about him when you can be out living life.

Good luck

 

[Powder]

When raised by narcissists, T's say you "have fleas" or you are a Narc, too. Either way, takes practice.

 

[Dana1010]

When raised by narcissists, T's say you "have fleas" or you are a Narc, too. Either way, takes practice.

I'm not sure I understand your meaning, but it seems interesting. Could you clarify, please?