Childhood trauma C-PTSD non attachment - can you form a lasting intimate relationship with CPTSD?

[68philly]

I think there is 'intimacy' (not speaking sexually, that is one part, bodies are one part but hearts are another) between people in relationships of worth, be they family, friends or partners; that being: intimacy as regards trust(ing), disclosure, having each other's backs, sensitivity, being upfront/ honest, not harming one another. That can itself be a trigger. Trust and triggers are the worst (for me), and cognitive distortions since childhood.

Most of all friends who are more acquaintances, or who's expectation of (my) behaviour or care for me is low, or who know little of the real me or my situation, are easier to be around when mid-level or low-level symptomatic. Because it's a bit of a front or facade (by me), still true but I hide a lot. It's harder to hide from people who know more and actually care at some level about my welfare. Highly symptomatic it is difficult for me, and I'm sure for others to be around me. It is very hard for me not to run away entirely when highly symptomatic.

I'm sure it's an individual basis but yes, I would say intimacy is possible. But takes a lot of time, and a lot of patience and forgiveness, and sometimes fall-out follows (negative), and I try again or give up trying entirely or remove myself, and it has to take a leap of faith (and especially not just trying to over-ride it with maladaptive coping mechanisms). And of course there could be other baggage, or wounds, for anyone. Well, everyone has wounds.

JMHO though.

Best wishes to you. :hug:

Thank you...it helps so much being able to get insight from others

 

[EveHarrington]

And you don't see things from mine. That doesn't make me wrong either.

I never said you were wrong.

“it’s more that” ie “you are wrong” ie “it’s not this it’s that”

You corrected me. I didn’t correct you.

I hate how nobody on this forum ever talks to me unless they want to correct me and put me in my place, like I am stupid and have no idea what I am talking about.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Nobody corrected you. I responded to what you wrote and you took it as a correction.

This is open dialogue on a public Internet forum. If you post something, people will respond in a variety of ways. It's not always agreement.

Keep the drama out of the supporter section please.

 

[Abstract]

Can I ask you that when your PTSD symptoms become more intense is it easier to control when your around people you don't see very often..and harder to keep them at bay when you are around people that you see often or that you have a close relationship with?

What you describe re him is not at all unusual if you read these forums. I can only speak for myself of course. Mine is extreme in this way. Have more insight about my stuff now. Not talking about physical intimacy here as afraid can't do that. To me the emotional intimacy and being set off by it isn't isolated to my "partner" relationship. The more symptomatic I am the wider the ripple reaches if that makes sense. As the person is less close to me the need to put distance between them and myself (emotionally or physically) decreases. Strangers? I have zero problem with. I actually sometimes like having chats to strangers when like this as it gives me some sense of contact with others but with a lot of distance.

Not sure if you know what a freeze response is or not but I will go into freeze states at any attempt, by those who are close to me, to contact me, when I am highly symptomatic. Text from a friend? Freeze. Missed call from husband? Freeze. Etc. Not like this at present thank goodness.

So for me it is definitely an actual feeling of threat subconsciously. Plus relate to those who describe the effort involved and the inability to hide things from those who are closer. Mostly the latter. It can also be a matter of having too many balls in the air to have to try to manage someone else and contact. Or seeing the hurt I am causing.

Spoiler: Analogy I have used

Imagine walking a tightrope which is suspended above flames and spikes and people are throwing stones at you.and you are ducking and jumping and trying to still stay on the rope and not plunge into what is beneath you. Trying to have a meaningful conversation or reassure someone else and hide what is happening to you is pretty hard to whilst doing this. Someone you don't know doesn't involve as much and usually doesn't want to know more

Demands goes for other mental health stuff like depression though and I have to say as someone who has experienced that too, the PTSD close contact stuff for me is totally and utterly different. Visceral.

 

[grimalkin]

I can only speak to my own experience with my sufferer. He has cPTSD due to neglect and abuse throughout his childhood, and a second diagnosis of PTSD from a work-related injury. I haven't been too active on here of late, but my story is on this site, if you're curious for more of the background.

My short answer? Yes. I think it's very difficult for someone who has cPTSD from a neglectful and abusive childhood to form lasting, healthy, intimate relationships, especially without treatment, counseling, and possibly counseling together. Romantic and intimate relationships (I'm including close friendships here as well) are difficult enough as it is, without mental illness in general, and without a mental illness that hijacks the emotional and instinctive brain centers. We haven't yet mastered being able to read minds, and communication of any variety is imperfect and sometimes difficult.

We learn how to interact with other human beings as children, and especially learn about intimate, close, and romantic relationships from our parents (or other caretakers - the people who are "supposed" to be in charge and taking care of us) - by watching them interact with each other, other people, subsequent spouses, and by how they treat us. Throw in a narcissistic, neglectful, or abusive caretaker, and your first examples of human interaction are, well, painful garbage.

My sufferer was abused, mentally and physically, by his parents, his subsequent step parents and families (from both sides), and by the people outside his family who should have been looking out for the kids entrusted to their care (including child-focused counselors and a psychiatrist). He watched his parents and step parents abuse each other as well. He had no examples of what love or a healthy relationship looks like, and only had examples of what it most definitely does not look like (pain, neglect, and abuse).

So, during the time when he was supposed to learn how to interact with other human beings, he learned other people can not be trusted. He learned shame. He learned that "love" (ie, what the people in his life claimed was love) hurts. He learned that even the people who are supposed to help you when your home life goes to hell, can't be trusted either. And, in reality, he didn't even learn how to HAVE emotions in a healthy way. If he had emotions, he was ridiculed and/or beaten.

Adulthood hasn't necessarily brought relief - he still refuses treatment, and it wasn't until the last 9 years (as long as we've been together) that he realizes that maybe there is hope. He "ended" our relationship (his third marriage) a year and a half ago, but is starting to realize that love exists, and doesn't have to hurt. But he also realizes that he has to learn how to have healthy emotions, and how to compromise with another human being who doesn't actually mean him harm, and how to not only let someone in, but to give enough to the other person so that he's not just taking. He has to learn the tools to deal with the brain that was mis-wired in its development by abuse and neglect, so he can start to function normally.

I think it will be a struggle for him for the rest of his life. And, he has to be willing to do the work to get there, and that work will be hard. It will require outside intervention (from a trauma therapist). And, he has to realize that only he can do that work, even when he has a partner willing to walk with him, and even if he can find a good therapist. Healing is possible, but it's not easy, and it takes a willingness to even admit healing is needed.

Human interaction is hard for anyone. It's especially hard when interaction requires bridging a gulf of fear and trauma. Healing to the point of being able to be a partner and not just a presence takes courage and tenacity.

 

[68philly]

What you describe re him is not at all unusual if you read these forums. I can only speak for myself of course. Mine is extreme in this way. Have more insight about my stuff now. Not talking about physical intimacy here as afraid can't do that. To me the emotional intimacy and being set off by it isn't isolated to my "partner" relationship. The more symptomatic I am the wider the ripple reaches if that makes sense. As the person is less close to me the need to put distance between them and myself (emotionally or physically) decreases. Strangers? I have zero problem with. I actually sometimes like having chats to strangers when like this as it gives me some sense of contact with others but with a lot of distance.

Not sure if you know what a freeze response is or not but I will go into freeze states at any attempt at those who are close to me attempting to contact me, when I am highly symptomatic. Text from a friend? Freeze. Missed call from husband? Freeze. Etc. Not like this at present thank goodness.

So for me it is definitely an actual feeling of threat subconsciously. Plus relate to those who describe the effort involved and the inability to hide things from those who are closer. Mostly the latter. It can also be a matter of having too many balls in the air to have to try to manage someone else and contact. Or seeing the hurt I am causing.

Spoiler: Analogy I have used

Imagine walking a tightrope which is suspended above flames and spikes and people are throwing stones at you.and you are ducking and jumping and trying to still stay on the rope and plunge into what is beneath you. Trying to have a meaningful conversation or reassure someone else and hide what is happening to you is pretty hard to whilst doing this. Someone you don't know doesn't involve as much and usually doesn't want to know more

Demands goes for other mental health stuff like depression though and I have to say as someone who has experienced that too, the PTSD close contact stuff for me is totally and utterly different. Visceral.

Thank you so much Abstract for taking the time to give me all of your insight...
I seen him tonight for coffee and it was a nice visit...I'm trying to give him the space he needs right now as he is juggling a lot of things in his life...my heart breaks for anyone who has to go through this day after day ...always wondering when it will flare again...so happy to hear that right now things are good for you...bless you for being so caring to help a stranger understand this as much as I can.

 

[68philly]

I can only speak to my own experience with my sufferer. He has cPTSD due to neglect and abuse throughout his childhood, and a second diagnosis of PTSD from a work-related injury. I haven't been too active on here of late, but my story is on this site, if you're curious for more of the background.

My short answer? Yes. I think it's very difficult for someone who has cPTSD from a neglectful and abusive childhood to form lasting, healthy, intimate relationships, especially without treatment, counseling, and possibly counseling together. Romantic and intimate relationships (I'm including close friendships here as well) are difficult enough as it is, without mental illness in general, and without a mental illness that hijacks the emotional and instinctive brain centers. We haven't yet mastered being able to read minds, and communication of any variety is imperfect and sometimes difficult.

We learn how to interact with other human beings as children, and especially learn about intimate, close, and romantic relationships from our parents (or other caretakers - the people who are "supposed" to be in charge and taking care of us) - by watching them interact with each other, other people, subsequent spouses, and by how they treat us. Throw in a narcissistic, neglectful, or abusive caretaker, and your first examples of human interaction are, well, painful garbage.

My sufferer was abused, mentally and physically, by his parents, his subsequent step parents and families (from both sides), and by the people outside his family who should have been looking out for the kids entrusted to their care (including child-focused counselors and a psychiatrist). He watched his parents and step parents abuse each other as well. He had no examples of what love or a healthy relationship looks like, and only had examples of what it most definitely does not look like (pain, neglect, and abuse).

So, during the time when he was supposed to learn how to interact with other human beings, he learned other people can not be trusted. He learned shame. He learned that "love" (ie, what the people in his life claimed was love) hurts. He learned that even the people who are supposed to help you when your home life goes to hell, can't be trusted either. And, in reality, he didn't even learn how to HAVE emotions in a healthy way. If he had emotions, he was ridiculed and/or beaten.

Adulthood hasn't necessarily brought relief - he still refuses treatment, and it wasn't until the last 9 years (as long as we've been together) that he realizes that maybe there is hope. He "ended" our relationship (his third marriage) a year and a half ago, but is starting to realize that love exists, and doesn't have to hurt. But he also realizes that he has to learn how to have healthy emotions, and how to compromise with another human being who doesn't actually mean him harm, and how to not only let someone in, but to give enough to the other person so that he's not just taking. He has to learn the tools to deal with the brain that was mis-wired in its development by abuse and neglect, so he can start to function normally.

I think it will be a struggle for him for the rest of his life. And, he has to be willing to do the work to get there, and that work will be hard. It will require outside intervention (from a trauma therapist). And, he has to realize that only he can do that work, even when he has a partner willing to walk with him, and even if he can find a good therapist. Healing is possible, but it's not easy, and it takes a willingness to even admit healing is needed.

Human interaction is hard for anyone. It's especially hard when interaction requires bridging a gulf of fear and trauma. Healing to the point of being able to be a partner and not just a presence takes courage and tenacity.

Thank you so much for giving me more insight on this ...so sad how a bad childhood can change your whole adulthood.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think it can be tempting to want to be able to be able to tell definitively, will this work? Or won't it? Does the person care for me, or not?, etc. But I think a lot comes down to the person themself, a whole combination of factors, including personality, risk ratio, timings, the dynamic between you, the other person's expectations and personality, and again, the beliefs. So one person with ptsd may have several marriages, another run the other way.

I know though that untreated or unacknowledged ptsd (not even intentionally, even through denial or simply not knowing or believing or accepting it, for whatever reason), it's a very difficult condition to overcome, since it's shocking how many places the tentacles of it reach. Including relationships of course.

I know the challenges can be quantitatively different than someone without it, but I do think it's the qualitative difference that is hard to express or explain. For example, I heard about a course where you list your traumas and go through them in a few hours; for some of us even speaking or revealing one of them is really potentially destabilizing.

 

[hithere]

Has there been anyone diginoised with C-PTSD and been able to form a lasting intimate relationship..it sounds like it is almost impossible.

yes. it is way more than possible! Love is worth fighting for as the song goes.

 

[Abstract]

You are very welcome @68philly Wishing you much luck. Thank you for the kind words.

 

[grit]

I am diagnosed with cptsd and happily married. My things are hostility, aggression, fear, and terror. These translate to feelings of feeling disrespected, challenged, or put down for no reason. I need more certainty than ambivalence.
I suffered 18 of being beaten, spit on, pinched, hair pulled and bitten by my mother and a lot of fights with siblings and I have a lot of scars on my face from my sibling fights. I am in intense therapy and learning a lot about myself.

My biggest saving grace was I dissociated so far in my infant that I do not actually remember much of my childhood except I FEEL what happened. My other saving grace is I internalised all my hostility and do not take it on my husband but sure not all the time. the hostility can be so sophisticated, smart and subtle. So I recommend I am crazy and my husband should be in therapy as well. Cannot trust my own assessment and he agreed even though he assures me we are not in that kind of relationship. I feel and he confirms we have a harmonious relationship. My shit comes out when in fight or stress but we do really have a good repair system and I am open to admit my crap...I am not shy about my dark side and he is not but like most healthy or neurotic people, he feels he does not have as dark sometimes and this makes me go crazy and we battle out and usually come out in agreement.

You cannt date a crazy person and admit your own craziness maybe in lesser level but nevertheless.

my only advice to you is get support, find a great therapist to TAKE CARE OF YOU. The more you focus on him, the more you disappear and no one is watching the shop!

I will write more. but yes relationship is possible. I am loved immensely, supported and honestly a lucky bitch! and I feel the same about him but I am using my good side more than my dark side and therapy helps even though I met my husband before I was in therapy. I did own my baggage and never wanted to lend it out.

I am struggling in therapy though cause my baggage is open and ooh boy...how did I survive for so much?

 

[68philly]

I am diagnosed with cptsd and happily married. My things are hostility, aggression, fear, and terror. These translate to feelings of feeling disrespected, challenged, or put down for no reason. I need more certainty than ambivalence.
I suffered 18 of being beaten, spit on, pinched, hair pulled and bitten by my mother and a lot of fights with siblings and I have a lot of scars on my face from my sibling fights. I am in intense therapy and learning a lot about myself.

My biggest saving grace was I dissociated so far in my infant that I do not actually remember much of my childhood except I FEEL what happened. My other saving grace is I internalised all my hostility and do not take it on my husband but sure not all the time. the hostility can be so sophisticated, smart and subtle. So I recommend I am crazy and my husband should be in therapy as well. Cannot trust my own assessment and he agreed even though he assures me we are not in that kind of relationship. I feel and he confirms we have a harmonious relationship. My shit comes out when in fight or stress but we do really have a good repair system and I am open to admit my crap...I am not shy about my dark side and he is not but like most healthy or neurotic people, he feels he does not have as dark sometimes and this makes me go crazy and we battle out and usually come out in agreement.

You cannt date a crazy person and admit your own craziness maybe in lesser level but nevertheless.

my only advice to you is get support, find a great therapist to TAKE CARE OF YOU. The more you focus on him, the more you disappear and no one is watching the shop!

I will write more. but yes relationship is possible. I am loved immensely, supported and honestly a lucky bitch! and I feel the same about him but I am using my good side more than my dark side and therapy helps even though I met my husband before I was in therapy. I did own my baggage and never wanted to lend it out.

I am struggling in therapy though cause my baggage is open and ooh boy...how did I survive for so much?

Thank you so much for sharing with me..it gives me hope...and I am going to take your advice about getting therapy for myself.you are both very lucky to have found each other. ..I wish you both the very best...and would love to hear from you again.