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To me, sometimes forgiveness is something we have to choose multiple times over one "thing". If that makes sense.
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- Post starter Changing4Best
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I am praying @Mariona. I couldnt answer yesterday when I wanted to. but I know someone found a good online group here (linked)
I am here if you need to talk <3
I am here if you need to talk <3
T
tea
I understand what you mean. I guess, that is why it is so hurtful to deal with the same issue over and over again. To me forgiveness means to accept, that the past can't be changed. Sometimes it is hard to do so, at least for me.
I think to forgive doesn't mean I have to approve what has happened.
No @Tea I don't think forgiveness means not realizing something is wrong or hurtful (or no one would need to apologize or make ammends). I think you are right in the sense of wanting to avoid the hurt, or at least experience it through eyes in a way that doesn't hurt (as much).
I was stuck very recently with this 3 times over : 1st I bent the rules to accomodate someone (years of doing so) and the person lied outright, as though I had not only not accomodated but worse; that taught me they aren't who I thought they were and for whatever reasons will say anything to get their way. Then I had someone have a meltdown and hurl multiple insults over days (and lies, at best 'misinterpretations'', but many insults) when I said no/ I can't (at least yet)- I have gone through years of actually the same with this person when I think about it, and heard them disparage others. That taught me the hardship it is on others if I melt down (allows me to focus on my own faults) for whatever reason, and also teaches me that I have only heard much cruelty from this person when the chips are down. Lastly, I was told today (2nd person in 2 days) what an 'angel' I am, only to hear a somewhat (I say somewhat because it probably hurt me more than was intended) talk behind my back when they thought I was out of earshot. That made me 'feel' badly, worse self-esteem, and that people are pretty untrustworthy. (The 1st cases made me feel people are pretty mean-spirited and self-at-all-costs.) That teaches me it is my problem when I feel hurt. But it also teaches me to be wary of 'who' can really be trusted. I also think on the upside it shows it is on the right track to be kind (or it is truly what kindness is) to not want to do that, or to feel badly and make ammends if I do. And to not be inclined in-or-out of earshot. And also, instead of throwing 'everyone' in to that wastebasket (or conversely, throwing myself, especially when I have been very kind or all-kind, i.e. seeing myself in only bad terms), I am going to say, well, Idk, maybe I am worthless. But maybe also I am not, or tolerable at least to some, and that some would never do that, and some I know have never levied a mean bone in their whole body to me. And of those ones I can take shelter in/ with. And to know, as I was told- "it is because you are too kind". But I choose to believe there are a few people who don't trample that but value it.
TLDR; the upshot is, forgive it- why not? Life is short for me to feel badly; I already have to fight feeling badly or giving up for reasons that are different than individual hurts, even catastrophic ones. But more importantly carry on and (hopefully) side with those who care, or care more about me than the above, or are a lot more empathetic or balanced or safe. And avoid or limit those I know who aren't (be wiser). So I will not hold it against them, but without the others acknowledging or apologizing for what they've done, to me they think it's ok to do so, and I choose to remember enough to not trust them again if I still must have contact. So I will be forewarned, and definitely guarded. But life has a funny way of taking twists and turns, not only for me but for others as well. I guess in a nutshell (could be me- lol) it isn't what I want to build my life on, have on my mind causing me pain, or think of on my deathbed. (JMHO).
And thanks for bringing it up, just because I guess it was good to say it ~'out loud', for me. Really- who wants to be angry, or b*tchy, or bitter? I want peace(fulness) and joy and safety/ security. In the big scheme of things it will be small potatoes, I think.
Much peace coming to terms with what you have suffered, and by whose hands. I am very sorry you have.
(*I know this wasn't asked of me, so you can just toss it if you want. *) To me forgiveness involves remembering I have been the one at other times on the other end (and forgiven), I do not know all of the "why's" of why people choose what they do, and lastly (re: the the 'forget' part) to just be so busy concentrating on good/ better parts of my life or people that it truly doesn't matter at that (this) moment in time. It can't be reversed. But do I want to become bitter, etc?
I was stuck very recently with this 3 times over : 1st I bent the rules to accomodate someone (years of doing so) and the person lied outright, as though I had not only not accomodated but worse; that taught me they aren't who I thought they were and for whatever reasons will say anything to get their way. Then I had someone have a meltdown and hurl multiple insults over days (and lies, at best 'misinterpretations'', but many insults) when I said no/ I can't (at least yet)- I have gone through years of actually the same with this person when I think about it, and heard them disparage others. That taught me the hardship it is on others if I melt down (allows me to focus on my own faults) for whatever reason, and also teaches me that I have only heard much cruelty from this person when the chips are down. Lastly, I was told today (2nd person in 2 days) what an 'angel' I am, only to hear a somewhat (I say somewhat because it probably hurt me more than was intended) talk behind my back when they thought I was out of earshot. That made me 'feel' badly, worse self-esteem, and that people are pretty untrustworthy. (The 1st cases made me feel people are pretty mean-spirited and self-at-all-costs.) That teaches me it is my problem when I feel hurt. But it also teaches me to be wary of 'who' can really be trusted. I also think on the upside it shows it is on the right track to be kind (or it is truly what kindness is) to not want to do that, or to feel badly and make ammends if I do. And to not be inclined in-or-out of earshot. And also, instead of throwing 'everyone' in to that wastebasket (or conversely, throwing myself, especially when I have been very kind or all-kind, i.e. seeing myself in only bad terms), I am going to say, well, Idk, maybe I am worthless. But maybe also I am not, or tolerable at least to some, and that some would never do that, and some I know have never levied a mean bone in their whole body to me. And of those ones I can take shelter in/ with. And to know, as I was told- "it is because you are too kind". But I choose to believe there are a few people who don't trample that but value it.
TLDR; the upshot is, forgive it- why not? Life is short for me to feel badly; I already have to fight feeling badly or giving up for reasons that are different than individual hurts, even catastrophic ones. But more importantly carry on and (hopefully) side with those who care, or care more about me than the above, or are a lot more empathetic or balanced or safe. And avoid or limit those I know who aren't (be wiser). So I will not hold it against them, but without the others acknowledging or apologizing for what they've done, to me they think it's ok to do so, and I choose to remember enough to not trust them again if I still must have contact. So I will be forewarned, and definitely guarded. But life has a funny way of taking twists and turns, not only for me but for others as well. I guess in a nutshell (could be me- lol) it isn't what I want to build my life on, have on my mind causing me pain, or think of on my deathbed. (JMHO).
And thanks for bringing it up, just because I guess it was good to say it ~'out loud', for me. Really- who wants to be angry, or b*tchy, or bitter? I want peace(fulness) and joy and safety/ security. In the big scheme of things it will be small potatoes, I think.
Much peace coming to terms with what you have suffered, and by whose hands. I am very sorry you have.
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How are you today? I have used the Andrew Wommack prayerline before.when I was feeling despair emotionally unable to get a grip; and the person was so supportive and prayed for me and it brought a lot of solace and also hope. Praying for you Mariona
T
Tea
Hi @ Rosebud, thank you for you useful answer and for sharing your experiences!
I have experienced this kind of dastardly people as well, in another context, but I can relate to your experiences. To be told "it is because you are too kind", this is to simple and just not true. To be kind is a good quality and to have trust is something healthy. You had trust because you thought others are like you and this was the same reason for me. Our experiences has shown, that there are cruel people and of course like your writing we have to protect ourself from them.
When your writing "To me forgiveness involves remembering I have been the one at other times on the other end (and forgiven)" I can imagine that this is a very good way of looking at it and that it brings relief. But for me, of course I'm not an angel and I have hurt also others, but I can't compare myself to the that level of baseness I have experienced.
I think you have a wise way, how you handle forgiveness. Beautiful words to concentrate on the good things. Thank very much for your sympathy
.
I have experienced this kind of dastardly people as well, in another context, but I can relate to your experiences. To be told "it is because you are too kind", this is to simple and just not true. To be kind is a good quality and to have trust is something healthy. You had trust because you thought others are like you and this was the same reason for me. Our experiences has shown, that there are cruel people and of course like your writing we have to protect ourself from them.
When your writing "To me forgiveness involves remembering I have been the one at other times on the other end (and forgiven)" I can imagine that this is a very good way of looking at it and that it brings relief. But for me, of course I'm not an angel and I have hurt also others, but I can't compare myself to the that level of baseness I have experienced.
I think you have a wise way, how you handle forgiveness. Beautiful words to concentrate on the good things. Thank very much for your sympathy
.
T
Tea
Hi everyone, I'm wondering which strategies has helped you to forgive, or to get ahed with forgiveness?
T
Tea
@ Rosebud I wanna forgive, because it is unhealthy for me, if I don`t forgive.
How are you? Are you still missing your mum?
Do you mean unhealthy in terms of your body or soul @Tea ? (Or both?)
I don't remember mentioning my mom (?)
FWIW, I don't know if you've had losses @Tea , or rather I should say, 'which' losses. Just me, but I guess I would say the answer is 'always' and 'never'. When enough people die, and there are other losses with it also of course- Idk- it's like losing limbs, or senses. For example, losing a leg, do you notice one day more than another.. are you reminded of it one day more than another.. do you miss it one day more than another.. do you expect anything to change (no)... do you look at a photo skiing and miss it, or remember enjoying skiing on it's own terms? Now make that limb worth laying down your own life for though. But of course it's not a limb, it is not what the person did, it is the person themselves and the relationship that is missed. So yes, I can miss what advice I could ask, for example, I've heard people say that but usually it's only about milestones. But mostly I miss her as a person, and what she would say today, or tomorrow, not yesterday. To love her, and in her case I would say to be loved back. So I suppose a(nother) permanent hole in the heart goes with me. But losses are a funny thing- they compound. So a 10 on the first and a 5 on the second=15, and a 12 on the 3rd, well one day you realize now =43. (If that makes sense, unlikely I know). And the heart gets so many holes, well I'm not sure what's left of mine tbh. Or if it was even worth it. Of course I know she's in a better place, and in her case was 1/2 way there already. Not sure that that helps me now here, though I'm gladfor her. But also, way too painful for me to want to ever be there either.
So it's hard not to notice the absence but harder still to live with a hope in a presence.
I don't remember mentioning my mom (?)
FWIW, I don't know if you've had losses @Tea , or rather I should say, 'which' losses. Just me, but I guess I would say the answer is 'always' and 'never'. When enough people die, and there are other losses with it also of course- Idk- it's like losing limbs, or senses. For example, losing a leg, do you notice one day more than another.. are you reminded of it one day more than another.. do you miss it one day more than another.. do you expect anything to change (no)... do you look at a photo skiing and miss it, or remember enjoying skiing on it's own terms? Now make that limb worth laying down your own life for though. But of course it's not a limb, it is not what the person did, it is the person themselves and the relationship that is missed. So yes, I can miss what advice I could ask, for example, I've heard people say that but usually it's only about milestones. But mostly I miss her as a person, and what she would say today, or tomorrow, not yesterday. To love her, and in her case I would say to be loved back. So I suppose a(nother) permanent hole in the heart goes with me. But losses are a funny thing- they compound. So a 10 on the first and a 5 on the second=15, and a 12 on the 3rd, well one day you realize now =43. (If that makes sense, unlikely I know). And the heart gets so many holes, well I'm not sure what's left of mine tbh. Or if it was even worth it. Of course I know she's in a better place, and in her case was 1/2 way there already. Not sure that that helps me now here, though I'm gladfor her. But also, way too painful for me to want to ever be there either.
So it's hard not to notice the absence but harder still to live with a hope in a presence.
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