News Clinton Vs Trump

[scout86]

I support your right to disagree

And I totally support your right to disagree with me. (Want to make sure that's clear!)

I think Clintons support of the ICC indictment of Gadafi

I'm sure they did. Me too. He was a seriously bad guy who, apparently committed a lot of human rights violations. Not only in his own country, as he was apparently, or allegedly, tied to the downing of Pan Am flight 103 back in 1988.

supplied weapons to those in Libya

I'm assuming you mean we supplied weapons to those fighting to over throw Qaddafi. If memory serves correctly, we might have done that. There was a lot of discussion about how, or whether, to support the forces trying to overthrow Qaddafi. And then, if we supported someone, how did we know who to support? I'm kind of disappointed that our government didn't have a better idea what was going on, who the players were, and how best to help. I think the whole situation was a missed opportunity. But, maybe I over estimate our ability to gather the kind of intelligence we'd have needed to have handled that better. As far as I'm concerned, our inability to step up and support "the good guys" in the whole Arab Spring movement was a huge disappointment. I don't think we actually knew who the good guys were. One thing I'm totally sure of, Qaddafi was not one of the good guys.

Clinton straight out lied to the parents and the mother of the ambassador

I think the person you're talking about wasn't the mother of the ambassador, she was the mother of an embassy employee. The mother of the ambassador has actually called for Trump & co to quit using her son's name in their campaign. http://time.com/4420518/chris-stevens-mother-benghazi-donald-trump/

"Treason" is a legal term and has a specific legal definition. It's not just "doing a bad job of doing your job." Here's a link to a fairly detailed description of what "treason" technically means in the US. Dead Link Removed A quick summary would be "giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war". Technically, we weren't at war with Libya. There's also an element of deliberate intent involved. She would have to be guilty of WANTING to help the people trying to take over the embassy. I doubt that's what she wanted. I totally agree that security was inadequate. Actually, Clinton agrees that it was too. She may well be guilty of stuff, I'm not saying she's not. I'm just saying I don't think she's guilty of treason.

The Republicans have been running the Senate and the House for awhile now. They've been gunning for Hillary Clinton for EVER. I really think, if they had evidence to make a case against her, they'd have done it way before this. And, if there was a case against her, I think the Democrats probably would have thrown her under the bus and moved on. I could be wrong, but I just don't see her as having the influence to prevail, if there was evidence to convict her of something..

I'm not saying she's a saint, mind you. I'm just saying, if she's committed criminal acts, she's done a darn good job of covering them up. I'm not hugely impressed with the job she did as Sec. of State, but then I'm not planning on voting for her either. I DO have a problem with people like Trump, who chose to oppose someone by throwing around things like "Treason!" when they lack the evidence to make it stick. It's one of those deals where, if you hear a lie often enough, people begin to assume it's true. And that's a real thing. (The first group I'm aware of to use it as a deliberate tactic were the Nazis. Although it could be they were coping someone else.) http://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/10-biggest-lies-in-history10.htm

 

[Ladyghosthunter]

I'm taking Political Science and all the kids wanted to vote for Bernie...why I don't know. The best thing I tell people is to look at the candidate's records from both liberal and conservative points of view. Don't let your emotions be your guide.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

@scout86 You are correct about the mother not being the mother of the ambassador so think you for the redirect. I was expressing my own opinions and not quoting anyone. But she was told that she was not a member of the immediate family and they would not give her any answers.

Thank you for the redirect on the mother of the ambassador and I did not know this was going on. So I appreciate this.

I do think that Clinton is guilty of treason in the shady deals she has made with middle eastern countries to line her Clinton Foundation. So I agree to disagree with you on this point.

Trump as far as I know has never accused Clinton of Treason.

I believe that the Dems and Repubs are good friends with each other and think of their works as lifers that is their career. I think that so much of what is reported about both sides is a farce.

But that is just my opinion. I appreciate your taking the time to post the lincs.

 

[scout86]

I do think that Clinton is guilty of treason in the shady deals she has made with middle eastern countries to line her Clinton Foundation.

I honestly don't know much about the Clinton Foundation, although I understand there's been some controversy about it during the campaign. If she is somehow using money received through the foundation to give aid and comfort to enemies of the US, she's guilty of treason. Since we aren't actually at war with anyone right now, I think it would be hard for her to meet the definition. I looked at their web site. Looks like they support a lot of good programs. But then, they are hardly going to say they exist to try to overthrow the US government. Here's a link to one article off FactCheck.org about the foundation. http://www.factcheck.org/2015/06/where-does-clinton-foundation-money-go/

That's one of the few web sites I really trust. They go after EVERYONE when their facts aren't correct.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Im so grateful for this thread, and the others, as though there are opinions, those are generally backed up by a fact and a link to that fact and it is helping me weed through the gores of opinions thats just opinions that has no backing of fact in them.

I am in no way against freedom of the press, however, when its just people yelling at each other and trying so very hard to smear the one(s) running in opposite camp(s); there is no information there nor can I even stand to watch it.

I dont care which way press leans really. I am rather middle ground but lean a bit conserative but still watch liberal press because if I didnt, my opinions would be made up of others opinions without a bit of fact. Its the "which one can yell louder" and "which one can smear more" that has rather run rampent in this race that has me not liking the press right now.

@gizmo, ive also been called racist (many times) because I simply voted against Obama; when I am anything but racist and could careless what color the man is nor if he is man or woman, I care about policies.

Now im being called "anti-feminine" (whatever that is) due to not liking Clinton and leaning more toward Trump.

And I do dislike the common politican so that could answer why I lean more away from Clinton and more toward Trump. I think Trump has a big enough mouth that if he told a lie, he'd brag about it, so thats a plus. Though i think him having no political experience can be dangerous. Like Trump asked 3 times during a security breifing "we have nukes, why cant we using them?" (Many sources if you google but this is the most crediable in my opinion) http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/trump-asks-why-us-cant-use-nukes-msnbcs-joe-scarborough-reports.html That's a bit scary and I question if I want Trump, someone that asked that 3 times in one briefing, if I want him to have the secret "nuke code".

So im still on the fense about it all and likely will either not vote or vote libertarian as I dislike them both and unsure which one I dislike more nor do I know, at this point, which one I dont want to be our President more.

 

[Justmehere]

Wow! New poll shows Trump behind Clinton, Johnson and Stien for those 18-30.

Dead Link Removed

Polls can be wrong, but this is a stark trend.

 

[Abstract]

I'm too nervous to hope. I kept hoping and then he was still there. Have become convinced he will win. I'm disillusioned with human nature and how blind society can be. It's about more than the comments for me. It's about character and red flags when it comes to obviously unhealthy ones. The only way he could more clearly communicate that he is a potentially dangerous entity would be to tattoo it on his forehead in red ink. I experience visceral reactions when there is public support for red flag public personalities. I loose more and more respect and trust in human nature in general. Don't people think of the potential harm one loose cannon can wreak. Political affiliations/beliefs are one thing and this is something different.

I guess it has taken me a lifetime to start identifying those red flags when it comes to character and there is always the hope that society will see and protect. When it doesn't it links right back for me.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

Question to all...is there any facts about Clintons health problems or is this propaganda?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

@gizmo, if you google, theres a lot about it but none of the sites are sources ive ever heard of (so looked rather propaganda) but this site talks a bit about it http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/17/matt-drudge-slams-media-cover-up-of-hillary-clinto/ which says she has hypothyroidism/Hashimoto’s. I have hypothyroidism (not Hashimoto’s) and i just take synthroid and it levels off. Its a hormone that is low (hypo) and you must take the hormone to then increase the counts in the blood. No big deal.

Hashimoto’s is a bit more then just hypothyroidism. Its not just that your thyroid hormone is low and/or not producing very well, its your immune system attacking your thyroid making it not produce well. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hashimotos-disease/basics/definition/con-20030293

Having a low producing hormone isnt that big of a deal if its being treated. Mine hasnt produce hardly at all for years and i have 4 nodules on my thryroid, 2 that are big and growing, that need to be biopsied for possible thryoid cancer and if not then needs to be removed as its causing it to have more issues than if they werent there. How im understanding it anyway.

The site also talks about a blood clot.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

Thank you @lostforgottensoul I will look up blood clot. I am being a lot more cautious now about what the facts are instead of the spin.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I am being a lot more cautious now about what the facts are instead of the spin.

Yeah, thats a really good idea as a lot of it is likely just the spin.

I think the blood clot was resolved. A blood clot can be broken up and also removed. The coughing is being contibuted to the hashimotos though i dont ever cough due to low thyroid of ever heard of it.

I dont know. I didnt find a crediable source that had much of a serious condition or any other health conditions.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

Thank you @lostforgottensoul for helping me on this one. I am back to square one and so unsure. I am going to be paying attention more and seperating the chaff from the wheat as far as sources of news goes on the campaign.