Cognitive distortions specific to ptsd

[lostforgottensoul]

Ok... so what if you tried to find a seat in the middle of a cafe or such, somewhere that you would normally...

I hope its ok if i ask a question, does this work where someone whom has severe social anxiety; people are to be feared & i was gonna say not Agoraphobia but mayoclinc says that its a panic of being in crowds, in line at the store etc and says that often need someone to go with you; though im terrified i can be in a store alone but a church or any larger of a crowd and i need someone to go with me (weird that all my dignosis says w/o this and labeled with social anxiety) but anyway, if i forced myself to do this, would this work or would it be more of going to like a park outside and slowly increase amount of people as well as slowly work into being able to be inside around a larger amount of people?

Sorry if i took this off topic, was just wondering how best to go about this is all.

 

[Chava]

It doesn't sound f*cked up @Junebug but I still don't understand the cognitive connection. It's really hard to "think" our way through trauma stuff (I say that as a major thinker and analyzer). The responses have almost nothing to do with cognition. Cognition actually nearly shuts down in the moment of trauma. The stuff I continue to carry is my nervous system responding to similar stimuli. What I do find helpful is creating cognitions where they did not exist...like noticing I'm freaked out and using my thinking mind to evaluate the level of threat realistically...or even recognizing I can't will myself out of being triggered sometimes and need to do something physical to remind myself I'm safe (hide out, cover in lots of layers, allow myself to not make eye contact...pretty aware I'm doing this, but accepting I'm hyper-aroused and kindly working my way back down to earth).

The triggers and trigger responses themselves are not cognitive. If you've formed beliefs, like being safer with long hair, that's still a sort of protective response born more of the nervous system than cognitive brain, but your thinking can inform your choices...and consider that the long hair thing maybe isn't necessary. Or if it "feels" safer, even if you "know" it's not logical, let it go....I have a lot of these things. As long as I'm not limiting myself too much (because I do that too) I willfully allow myself some of my safety/protection quirks once I recognize them for what they are. They still help on a body level, like how soaking feet in warm water is calming. My thinking isn't so much a factor.

In my last therapy appointment I had a soothing thing with me...it was mine, I bought it. I started crying and said I was afraid "they wouldn't let me keep it." Thank god I didn't have to explain that in logical terms. I understand connected to broad events of powerlessness and feeling unworthy and guilty for being alive. But the feeling itself is very specific. Cognitively, it was mine and I knew it...I wasn't separated from my current reality. But I was able to have and speak that deep feeling without needing to explain or analyze it. It just was what it was. And I sort of slowly let myself hold the object and put it back in my bag and re-believe it was mine (and I can have something beautiful)

Now, that might all sound f*cking nuts and scattered. Not sure. But as an over-thinker I can say I started healing more when I stopped thinking or even worrying about my thinking mind much. I just regulate, reflect, revise responses, etc. But if there are clear cognitive distortions I will look at those. But they don't tend to change without dealing first with the regulating aspect, if that makes sense.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes it does @Chava thank you. I believe you are correct, as regards the overthinking. I know it is apparently a form of avoidance. Although I know they say we cannot have an emotion without assigning a cognitive thought to it, much of the arousal is the same the cognition assigned can be very different.

Starting small has been- uncomfortable, and far more difficult than I expected. It's a lot easier to think I'm capable of doing it, until I'm actually trying to do it differently, lol. :eek: :rolleyes:

Then again, I think environment means a lot, & I learned what to avoid today. The reason/ facts for the 'feeling', as you said. Whether because the experience provided some clarity, Idk. I sure could easily identify though what I don't want any part of, & why. (And I'm not going to overthink it past that. ;) lol).

Thanks for your wisdom @Chava . :hug:

 

[lostforgottensoul]

regards the overthinking. I know it is apparently a form of avoidance.

Not necessarly (maybe for you but dont want you to put yourself in a box is all); i over think everything. Just for a non-trauma example, my ex is an eletrician and i didnt just want to know how to wire a 110 & 220 outlet amoung other things, i wanted to know why everyrhing connections that way, what it does & all it connect to it does & so forth. I have always been that way and its how i was able to build my first PC at 18 & self teach all that i know in IT and still self teaching. My point is, i dont over think to avoid, its just whom i am, how my brain works.

Has it gotten in the way of therapy? Totally, but i think thats why i found the site JL gave me so useful and when i used it today about something that was making me upset but i didnt know why, it helped me to see why and i think i missed the last step but it was able to make me feel better, think clearer, and be more responsive to others.

Now when it comes to social anxiety, i havent put that into practice yet but i think its helpful to know why and where your thoughts, fears and anxiety are coming from and it can help you feel safer when before you couldnt.

Thats just my 2 cents on it for whatever its worth ;)

 

[Chava]

they say we cannot have an emotion without assigning a cognitive thought to it,

I'm not disagreeing with you, but with "they." Maybe true in many cases, but I have lots of feelings without assigning cognitive meaning. I think that's also part of being a musician. Feelings can be abstract, unnamed, and simply felt or expressed without thought connected. Though I know somewhat naming a feeling, or having a way to frame it, is very helpful, especially when they are intense or globbed together (which is how it goes with me and I assume many of us)

Then again, I think environment means a lot, & I learned what to avoid today.

For sure! In crowded or semi-chaotic environments I allow myself to stay closer to the door, make less eye contact, find one smaller point of focus (like one person I feel good chatting with). I don't need to change my thoughts or beliefs. I just feel more comfortable that way. If I'm avoiding humans altogether, then I need to willfully challenge myself to get out around people...and I can even do disorganized, but allow myself those points of focus (and view of the door) because that simply helps me enjoy myself a tiny bit.

I do overthink as a means of avoidance, but primarily as a form of distraction. Keeps me in my head. But interesting, I had not heard that connection made before. I see some validity in that. Maybe not 100% but definitely room for correlation.

 

[Tinyflame]

@lostforgottensoul you sound very talented, & yes directing the thoughts is what is helpful. :hug:

@Chava , I agree. But is that not 'emotional reasoning'? (a distortion).

Yes I also am aware what makes me feel better, but m trying what Anthony recommended to challenge my hypervigilance (or perhaps better said the veracity or lack-there-of of the thoughts around it) , which to be honest I thought wouldn't be so difficult (and which does not 'feel' good at all lol. No pain no gain though, right? ;) ) (ETA - :eek: !! :) )

 

[Tinyflame]

PS, Dear @Chava I look forward to what you think about the emotions part, but just have to lay down am sick to my stomach. :sick:

Ya, ha, the 'royal we' & the 'royal they' . (Sorry! :rolleyes: ... 'We' should all have saturday off, I say. :D )

(PS too, you remind me with your abilities, there was a famous composer, can't recall which one, who said when he created he used to reach up and pull a composition that he could 'see' (the notes written) from the sky. :) Or a sculptor, who frees the image from the rock. Yes those are examples of visuals, but so much more. :) )

Reminds me of my mom saying (about health care/ the body/ mind etc) 'what they don't know fills volumes'.

 

[Chava]

Link Removed , I agree. But is that not 'emotional reasoning'? (a distortion).

No, it isn't, because emotional reasoning implies I believe something to be true (or "feel" it is true), in spite of the evidence. There is no "reasoning" of any level really right within trauma and triggers and flashbacks. But on the level of reality and having worked through many triggers, I allow myself a sense of safety where needed, or felt it is needed, while fully aware that I am actually safe. I'm not believing I'm not safe. It has nothing to do with my thoughts or beliefs.

On an autonomic nervous system level, I'm dysregulated, so I regulate. Hyperarousal is not related to "belief", because belief (including forms of emotional reasoning) require cognition. Hyperarousal does not. That's why I was talking about willfully allowing some of my safety quirks. I don't believe I'm not safe, I'm not contradicting evidence. But I can still feel panic, which is totally separate from my thoughts. Heart palpitations? Hyper-sensitivity to sound? Not related to my thoughts or beliefs, at all. I can "know" I'm fine, but I have to do something to regulate or ground. Belief-wise, I know I'm okay...and recognizing and knowing that does help me ground faster. So my beliefs are actually very well reality-tested, so no emotional reasoning. Does that sort of make sense? This all relates to the whole body-oriented focus to trauma (and I am obviously a fan :)).

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @Chava I understand (and agree very much).

 

[lostforgottensoul]

you sound very talented, & yes directing the thoughts is what is helpful. :hug:

Not talented, just love learning about anything and very determined ;)

but m trying what Anthony recommended

Good! Def sounds like it will help and im thinking of trying it myself for my super bad social anxiety. Or i may just start small or both...not sure yet.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes this is starting small.

 

[Chava]

p.s. I can definitely see how things could turn to "emotional reasoning" (and I learned a new cognitive distortion here!). I don't feel my hyperarousal that way, whether old habits or acute responses, but that does seem like the mostly likely cognitive connection.