Cognitive distortions specific to ptsd

[Tinyflame]

I can't tell when it is or when it isn't @Chava .

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I can't tell when it is or when it isn't @Chava .

You dont need to be able to tell at that moment. I learned while still being upset about something that i can (and how) trace it to a past event (that in of itself helped) but it teaches you how to change your thinking around something.

So for example, if i have to have my back against the wall, in that moment or even thinking about it, trace if back to the past event that caused that fear, then when you are sitting in the middle of the room, it will be easier because you can remind yourself why you have that panic reaction, where it came from, and that its not happening right now. Its a grounding exersise that eases anxiety & fears. Thats all i was saying.

Im finding that theres generally a congitive thing around all of my fears/anxieties/upsets/tailspins etc. You're current thinking pattern re-enforces "im not safe"; if you can change that, it will make it easier! :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @lostforgottensoul . I agree with that, & i find if it's just hyperarousal or fear I can trust it's just somatic. (Feeling 'freaked out' or terrified but realizing there aren't reasons to feel that way, or to that degree at that moment). Though sometimes I don't realize how overwhelmed I actually feel in a moment.

I find determining whether it's emotional reasoning or simply an accurate conclusion based on facts more difficult. (And that's without any other other cognitive distortions.)

 

[Tinyflame]

OMG , hope this makes sense, I'm so ashamed to say, but I think trying to push myself I've been engaging in cognitive distortions galore. I should say, experiencing them, in so far as they've not been intentional & they've been under my radar, but OMG not just one but many, so many I have to go back to the list(s). OMG .

On the other hand, it's really wonderful in the way of what an eye-opener. :wideeyed:

I am just guessing, but I think denying symptoms (which is denial, even akin to telling myself to 'get over them', & overestimating how poorly I actually do at managing them other than out-right avoidance), I think that really leads me to meltdown. I think anxiety from not-avoiding ramped up/ is ramping up the symptoms & fueled/ fueling the distortions. Because when I pull back, I can check off many distortions, but in it I'm just mentally & physically freaked out (a mess).

Honestly, not-avoiding, it's like giving symptoms steroids, for me. :(

I am going to figure out which distortions I've been guilty of to correct them, & keep trying to widen my comfort zone. I guess I overdid it, I thought it would be easier. Thought I'd remain calm, cool & collected, not :eek: :mad::cry::sick::hungover: ! (And mostly I never get/ feel angry, either!)

I am very thankful, it makes some sense. Horrible experience though, yikes.

ETA, OMG, it's easier to leave out the ones I didn't engage in (few!) :eek: :(

 

[lostforgottensoul]

in so far as they've not been intentional

Not sure im understanding the entie post but i am dyslexic so i'll re-read it a few times but wanted to say this; ALL of my congnitive distortions and things i do are not intentional. And i dont even know they are distortions really until i regonoze them as such...which for me is VERY hard.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @lostforgottensoul , to practice is it. But maybe first to take the clue of feeling badly- recognize & admit it, then go to picking apart the thoughts one at a time.

I am going to try to keep sitting towards the middle. I'll either eventually cause a scene ( :eek: :p ) or be able to work on what I didn't think I needed to work on. :)

(And I know this sounds ridiculous, but on purpose one time I bought a couple of TimBits (mini donuts) to chill out with a coffee & 'act normal'. They were good but went down like rocks lol. )

Actually, in all seriousness, I am really amazed there was some rhyme-or-reason (or as much) to this, because I've done (or tried to) CBT on my own for a long time, but in such an artificial environment of my own making= isolation.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

And I know this sounds ridiculous, but on purpose one time I bought a couple of TimBits (mini donuts) to chill out with a coffee & 'act normal'.

Doesnt sound ridiculous at all!

You got this! I believe in you! :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

TY. Same here. :) :hug:

Well I know I haven't really started because next I have to (hopefully) start keeping track of what "doesn't happen" as I try. It really is baby steps, I thought I was better at this/ more aware. (Apparently not!)

 

[Chava]

I am going to try to keep sitting towards the middle. I'll either eventually cause a scene ( :eek: :p ) or be able to work on what I didn't think I needed to work on.

So, I might be off track a bit, but I think I'd understand this more as you trying to work on the "behavioral" part of CBT approach, moreso than the "cognitive" part. ?? You really might have cognitive beliefs. Trauma can lend itself towards shaping certain beliefs. But as for actually trigger response behavior? There is very little cognition involved. The cognitive brain is not informing or responding to trauma or our triggers. It actually shuts down or dims. It can be useful to actually pull it back "online" and realize we are safe. But it's not the cognitive brain telling use we aren't safe....it's the lower brain stuff.

Anyway, working on trying to not sit with back to the wall, or test different environments, etc, is behavioral. I don't credit much cognitive approach to trauma therapy because the connection is weak, even in the research. But the "B" of "CBT" makes good sense. I'm adjusting my behavior all the time, or at least becoming more aware of it. I used to try to do massive overhauls of habits and behaviors, but then find I'd go f*cking crazy and want to kill myself. So now it's more about noticing which behaviors are about safety and questioning if I need them in this moment...or if I can tolerate a small challenge. If I'm overwhelmed by several things, I let pushing myself slide and allow a little more sense of safety or familiarity (or staying within my routine and also just at home more). As soon as I'm a little more stable, I try to challenge behaviors a little more or extend my comfort zone. I think that's really good.

As for facing the door or sitting with my back against the wall, it's not a big deal to me because I can usually manage to sit where I want...helps that I don't visit super crowded places and see no need right now to start. On occasions when I luck out (people behind me), I at least ask to switch seats with a friend so I can see the door and they don't care. I could survive otherwise, but for me I simply know it will help me be attentive to conversation better and just be better company. But in some areas my needs seem unreasonable and I'm working with that...my cognition created none of it, but it helps to think rationally in undoing some responses or patterns. But the change itself is really behavioral, and it happens more at the nervous system level...if we're talking about responding to trauma triggers or trying to undo outworn patterns of behavior.

I have done CBT for eating disorder, but not CBT for PTSD. But I'd assume, like with an eating disorder, there is a good focus on the behavioral aspect of the approach. Not thinking, just doing (the thing you don't really want to do)...or finding ways to make it doable.

So are you working on behavior or thoughts? I only ask because I think it can get overly complicated if not separated out. My therapist has helped me with some of this...separate out stuff, simplify.

 

[anthony]

I am going to try to keep sitting towards the middle. I'll either eventually cause a scene ( :eek: :p ) or be able to work on what I didn't think I needed to work on.

It is a process, and begin small. Just sit in the middle for a minute or two, assess what is going on within you, and has anything bad happened to you from another because you're in the middle?

If nothing bad happens, then that is your factual reality -- where you sit has nothing to do with your control for seating against the wall. The reality, sitting with your back against the wall isn't actually making you any safer, in essence.

Assess what you feel, record it. Analyse things. Use facts to progressively change the negative distortion within your head.

An example I love to use with veterans, basically incapable of entering a shopping centre due to the fear of all the people around them and someone trying to kill them.

This is society, not a war zone... so park in your car at the shops, sit there. What happens? Next time, get out of your car and walk to the entrance doors, stand there for as long as you can, then go back to your car. What happened? Next time, enter the centre to the second shop, look around in it, walk out to car. What happened. Progressively increase this, always assessing what happened. Did anyone try and kill you whilst going to your local shops?

The distortion is then changed by the facts. The fact is that they're no longer in a war zone and back to civilian, civilised society.

If you lived in a neighbourhood where shops are held up at gun point daily, or such, then hyper-vigilance going to a store is not a distortion, its reality. That's the difference.

Yes, shops get held up, they get robbed, all sorts of things... but what are the realistic chances of you being present based on your neighbourhood and environment? They're factors you must include and use in rationalisation.

 

[Tinyflame]

Hi @Chava . Anthony said to practice doing this & to ask myself (I'm not quoting because I have to keep practicing):

".. with having your back to the wall, how many times over what period have you absolutely required to use those exits from a threat or defend yourself or another in such society settings? .. to see whether anything happens to you that requires you to have your back to the wall, eyes alert at all times... Just try it... don't run, just baby steps. Then assure yourself of the factual outcome of you sitting in the middle and what happens to you, or does not. It takes practice to do.. try for the middle and assure yourself at all times of the factual reality around you. Is the threat real, or in your head only?... practice to reassure yourself... not once or twice".

So to the best that I understand it, it is my responsibility to work on the thoughts that lead to the beliefs that are responsible for the behaviours (in my control) , prompted possibly by the triggers (not in my control).

But it's not the cognitive brain telling use we aren't safe....it's the lower brain stuff.

So again, though this is the message from the 'lower brain', it's up to me to determine & pick apart my response to my body's/ lower brain response.

So now it's more about noticing which behaviors are about safety and questioning if I need them in this moment...or if I can tolerate

I think this is the same way of saying it. ^^^

in some areas my needs seem unreasonable and I'm working with that...my cognition created none of it, but it helps to think rationally in undoing some responses or patterns. But the change itself is really behavioral, and it happens more at the nervous system level...if we're talking about responding to trauma triggers or trying to undo outworn patterns of behavior

I'm guessing the change can influence the nervous system to the extent the nervous system may respond the same, but cognitively we can come to be dispassionate about it- just recognize it for what it is. So though we may still have bodily reactions,but not as likely to influence our thinking, then behaviours.

I would guess to while exposing faulty/ self-defeating beliefs & cognitive distortions, if they are part of it. So the action sounds simple, but maybe is more complex because it challenges beliefs?

ETA, in recopying this I realize the big part I've missed is to remember to reassure myself. Actually that's probably the biggest part. Oh my. Missed what was right in front of me. :( Good to know, to keep practicing. :)

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @anthony .

Could I ask one question, it seems so easy on paper. Doing it, & experiencing distress or panic, how far do you push it before backing off? Is it better to step back a few steps when starting to feel pretty stressed out, or just dig in where I'm at, or take a mini-break entirely?