Communication chasm: treated v untreated interpersonal dynamics

[anonymous]

Is there stuff underneath..? She would surely be going and getting help right away if she really wanted to continue living..So what makes her not want to live? Has she just no hope left?

I was having hypoglycemic - like attacks and pre - diabetes symptoms earlier this year and was f*cking terrified and done everything to change, I knew it was my diet (way too much sugar, no fibre, no protein, no healthy fats) and I changed it, I knew I was under way too much stress and minimised it as much as possible because I researched it and found a lot of sites saying stress makes this so much worse, I have improved and am so glad I made some changes. I did not want to get diabetes, I was determined, no way was I having that on top of everything else, No f*cking way! No way was I going to get that and end up dying like that.

But your friend doesn't seem to care about herself...why is that?

It's not your responsibility and I think you're right to keep your distance...but I would ask her why she doesn't care about herself

 

[Deanna]

It's been destroying me to watch this go down. I'm totally sick of hearing about how she had to haul 50lbs of trash to the dump by herself because her husband forgot and her father was feeling bad... she just wants someone (me. Simon. She wants me) to say, "Poor BFF. I'm so sorry everyone sucks

No you cannot come over for a cigarette [which for her is code for 45min-3 hours of talking plus I need to go to the store plus she'll tell me how bad her laundry or dishes or whatever are because she knows I'll offer to "help"/do it for her]" turned into this insane firefight. I'm bamboozled. And so f*cking hurt by the shit she said.

These two lines don't set too well with me. You always help her after her (45 minute to three hour) cigarette break? You're a dream..Until she wants to fix herself there really isn't anything you can do... but it sounds like your job is being a free maid here. I just don't think this is a good situation for you.

The biggest concern was that because she chose not to be casted that the bones and ligaments wouldn't heal properly and her job as a nurse (did I f*cking mention she's a goddamn nurse???) would be in jeopardy?

I agree with you... but something else is up with the hand. Being casted for a hand has nothing to do with psychiatry when that person is a nurse. There is something else going on here and I don't think it is her health. She needs to be locked up because she is a threat to hersef.

 

[anonymous]

I agree with you... but something else is up with the hand. Being casted for a hand has nothing to...

I agree, she should be in the psych ward because she's actually a danger to herself

 

[joeylittle]

I agree, she should be in the psych ward because she's actually a danger to herself

I think this is a major over-reaction.

Inability to care for self is not the same as Danger to the self.

Inability to care for self does sometimes warrant intervention - but that's anything from a planned inpatient stay, to telling their therapist or doctor you are worried about them and why, to initiating a tough conversation, to pitching in. (And I think the OP has been wrestling through most of these).

Danger to the self is, you are going to going to cause extreme and irreparable damage, potentially death. Ending up with a badly healed hand is self-sabotage for sure, and the OPs friend isn't doing much in the way of self-care on a larger level, but none of that strikes me as cause to have someone admitted to a psychiatric facility against their will. It is sometimes necessary to take that kind of action, but it should never be done out of a well-meaning whim or instinct. If you are going to take responsibility for having someone committed, you really need to know how to research where you are sending them. It makes a big difference.

When someone is threatening suicide, and you call 911 on them - that is danger to the self. Calling the police/emergency services is a really hard but necessary action. And you don't often have any time to try and manage where they are going to end up - but you need to know that it is vital to their survival. If someone is in the middle of psychosis, unaware of reality, or unable to even get up and go to the bathroom so they have taken to soiling themselves...these are reasons for involuntary commitment.

I would ask her why she doesn't care about herself

I would ask her what is getting in the way of taking care of herself.

It's hard to frame things as non-judgmental, but I think it helps.

 

[Deanna]

I would ask her what is getting in the way of taking care of herself.

Very good. I wasn't as engaged in the thread when I frst looked at it because there are thousands upon thousands of people with opiate and herion addictions ( alcohol) in treatment centers, so it didn't hit me right betwen the eyes at first. But I did get the hint that she wasn't married to the brightest lighbulb in the pack there... and they both sound like A) ( father and son) they never really cared or b) got tired of it but now that I think about it.. it wasn't about not getting her hand cast, so much as it was about her vitals and maybe her valium levels.

I think I would take the advise of the OP'S mother who is an RN and knows these vitals are bad. I know the OP is overtly involved but this first sounded like yet another addict/alcoholic to me. This girl is talking out of her head, really. Why doesn't she get the support she needs from hubby, which would be my first number one, geniune question of the day- and why can't he dump the 50 gallon trash container? That's beyond nasty.

And then, if someone wanted to take this a step further, since this person a nurse, and as much as the OP knows about this woman, I would logically speaking say, the slight elavation of a temper flare is based from an RN and the OP going to her superiors and the result would be in losing her license. That's the rub in the OPs friends mind.

I'm not paying a nurses salary to work on me, if I need it. Not someone like this. I would say the OP needs to report her to her superiors and in any event, get her out of the medical facilty.

 

[Tinyflame]

I read something about , ~feeling badly is attributed to 'ourselves' being the cause, hence 'the end of us'/ suicide active or passive, is the solution.

Maybe she is very unhappy &/ or overwhelmed in her role(s), or depression or exhaustion?

But she would expect you as a God-parent/ potential guardian @Simply Simon to shelter her child from all preventable emotional suffering- I hope she's able to see past her own situation to do that for her child (& H) now, in her role as a mom/ wife/ (friend), etc. Maybe naming and receiving help in those regards might help her to find the strength, health and maturity to recognize it impacts more than her, as bad as it is for her, and to put her child first?

Yikes. :(

 

[Friday]

I'm not paying a nurses salary to work on me, if I need it. Not someone like this. I would say the OP needs to report her to her superiors and in any event, get her out of the medical facilty

Medical professionals, especially the best & most caring / above & beyond / dedicated & phenom medical professionals... are notoriously bad patients. They burn out taking care of others, and don't take care of themselves. They aggravate their own injuries helping others with theirs. They work themselves into the grave -literally- putting others needs & wants above their own. It's a very well known occupational hazard.

That Simon's friend is ignoring her own medical needs as a person & as a patient? In no way reflects on her dedication, or her ability, or her performance at work.

 

[Sideways]

This may cut too close, so just swoosh past if you want: but is this the same friend that you share a traumatic event with?

If so, with my sister - sharing a trauma wasn't anything like I expected it would be. Surely it would bring us closer together, because I have someone that understands, and is working on recovery in tandem with me, right?

Actually it was the opposite. There was a tonne of silent resentment going on. Our symptoms were very different, the effect on our mental health was very different, the recovery paths we have chosen are very different and, more relevantly, almost in complete contrast to each other.

Rather than someone who understood, and who she could lean on? My sister flat out resents me. My best guess is that a lot of the emotion she has from her trauma, she directs at me. I basically became a trigger. The resentment that she feels for her abuser? Is actually safer to direct at me. And ultimately, I have become the very last person in the world that she wants support from.

May be way off. May be completely irrelevant. But it may alternatively be that if you share a traumatic experience, that was the point where your relationship changed. I don't know how to fix that. For me? The best thing that I seem to have done for my sister's recovery? Is (pretty tragically) to remove myself from her life for now.

 

[Kintsugi]

Hey, sorry guys. Had an overwhelming weekend. Went to kid's birthday party. It was super weird, because it was like BFF kept forgetting she was supposed to be mad at me, so everything would be fine for a bit and then shift back to frostland. I stayed later than anyone else to try and help out and provide opportunities to talk. No bite.

@The Albatross really hit the nail on the head for how I'm feeling... I've tried to love her out of this headspace of not helping herself, and it just isn't working. @joeylittle is correct that psych ward is an overreaction... but I actually did ask if there were a physical health equivalent to a first cert, because BFF's doctor--as much as I'm not loving her right now--DOES feel that BFF belongs in a hospital and has belonged there for months.

@Friday is right about medical people being the worst for self care. They are notorious. My mom is a shit patient too. That being said, if she still worked for a hospital, they would not let her work the floor. They would ship her to the ER and force her to stay off from work. She changed jobs recently, though, in May or so, and now she IS the boss. She's the director of nursing where she works currently. There is no medical professional above her. She is the top authority. Which is crazy-making because she says she can't afford the time off for her health, but frankly there is no one who's going to fire her if she took a week. Just. Ugh. Insanity making that she won't flip them the bird and take care of herself for a week.

All this "I'd be better off dead" shit most certainly comes from the fact that her life has just perpetually kicked her ass forever. I get that. Every time she encounters yet another Crit A trauma, I hold my breath a little. It's like her life is this f*cked up carousel of traumas and Traumas that just keeps going.

Her husband (BFF2) SHOULD be the one primarily offering her support, and in some senses, I think she's waiting for him to put his foot down and tell her to cut the crap, but that is simply not who she married. Our circle doesn't believe in telling one another what to do. That's probably a big part of why it was a shock to her that I said I had to limit my own exposure: it sounded like I was giving an ultimatum. I really was not. I was just being forthcoming about where I sat.

Also, like I said, I think BFF2 has untreated PTSD (and is not bipolar, which is his Dx). His stress cup is hypersensitive. I personally couldn't be married to someone who so poorly manages their stress and has so few coping mechanisms to deploy. Avoidance is his go-to. Head in sand. It looks so classic to me.

We do share some Traumas. We experienced one together--being sexually assaulted a little over a year ago. Otherwise, we both underwent abortions that were highly traumatic and we both were raised by emotionally and verbally abusive mothers. It is very likely that she was sexually abused at a very young age, but she doesn't have any memory of it (her sisters, when they were both living, talked at length about this suspicion re: their shared super abusive father while I was with the three of them--both had been sexually abused by him) of that's true.

I did finally figure out why she said one of the very hurtful things she said to me, but I just want so badly for her to give me an opportunity to sit down and just listen to her talk to me about her feelings--about me, about her health, about everything. I do feel like to her, she probably was put so on defense because I shocked her by telling her exactly how I felt about this situation, and I can see how for someone just looking to spend time with her best friend it was emotionally overwhelming and difficult to swallow/digest.