Criticism - is it them or you?

[anthony]

The way people are trying to communicate in this thread is a great example of different approaches toward handling criticism from others.

Agreed... I've actually tried to poke a few responses to test how they would continue based on reading this exact knowledge.

 

[Ursula Wheeler]

I have just spent nine weeks in a 12 Step Program to treat my alcohol and anxiety issues and feel I narrowly escaped complete brainwashing.They all tell you to stay away from alcohol as they regard alcoholism as an illness, but they regard anxiety as a 'character defect'. Personally, i never had a problem with alcohol (years of moderate social drinking) until i experienced horrific, 24/7 panic states.
I have read an article at Psychology Today that suggests that 12 step programs actually induce a PTSD like fear to try and scare people into abstinence.
There is also some interesting stuff on 12 Step Programs in the 'Orange Papers'.
Unfortunately this site won't let me post the links but i hope you find the info if your interested.

 

[PTSDsucks]

If someone reads my work and offers their opinion, that might be constructive criticism. My ex screaming at me that I am a c*nt and a worthless thing is abuse. I can take or leave someone's thoughtful critique of me. I had very little power over the impact of my ex's abuse. My power came when I found the courage to leave and start a new life. It was his intent to try and break me so he could feel better about himself,however fleeting. I find the comments a bit tone deaf about how a person's soul gets chipped away in long term abuse. If it was so easy to sort out "mine" from my abusers (going back to childhood) I would not be in treatment for PTSD or on this bloody forum.

 

[anthony]

If it was so easy to sort out

Nobody is saying its easy... but more you have to start somewhere in sorting out distorted thoughts with rational thoughts. People need to isolate those two aspects first, because not every negative thought is a distortion, which is what some get all riled up about in such discussions, as they have a rational thought from a real situation, and think that is somehow a distortion. That logic in itself is the distortion, not the rational thought.

You have to isolate them first.

 

[LuckyDuck]

I have difficulty agreeing with most of the OP. Hopefully writing about it would help make things more clear. I’ll start with bringing up the subject of conditioning. It's a vital component to how one reacts. Ivan P. Pavlov is probably the most recognized source I can bring up to have one understand what conditioning is.

"The only person in the entire world who has the power to put you down, is you, nobody else." is a nice thought, but it doesn’t work that way.

"When a person criticises you, certain negative thoughts are automatically triggered.” There we agree. “Your emotional reaction will be created by these thoughts, NOT by what the person actually says to you." I’m not sure you understood what you wrote. Both statements are in contradiction to each other. It goes like this:

“"When a person criticises you, certain negative thoughts are automatically triggered.” When X does Y to you, Z happens

“Your emotional reaction will be created by these thoughts, NOT by what the person actually says to you." When Z happens, it is not caused by X doing Y to you.

“What other people say has no impact on what you feel.” That is incorrect. Conditioning is a learned behavior, and it can quite easily be used to manipulate people to feel negatively about themselves. Conditioning can be applied verbally. This statement can only be valid if conditioning wasn’t real.

“Another person cannot be responsible for making you feel upset or otherwise.” Removing responsibility of a person who is being abusive is abusive in itself.

“No matter how vicious, heartless or cruel comments may be, they have no power to disturb you or create you discomfort.” Yes they can, and they often do. Continue reading, I explain further on that.

“To put it another way, when a person criticises you, the comments they make will either be right or wrong.” That’s a very black-and-white approach to something that isn’t. Half-truths exist and they are frequently used in criticism.

“If the comments are wrong, then you should be questioning yourself as to why you're upset, because there should be nothing to be upset about if the comments are wrong.” What about reputation? Criticizing someone can damage their reputation, change how other people view them. In prehistoric tribal times, if one was criticized, it could mean between remaining in the tribe and being shunned from the tribe. It was life and death.

“Then on the other hand, if the criticism is accurate, there is still no reason for you to be upset or feel overwhelmed, unless you think you should be perfect (Perfectionism is a cognitive distortion).” No, both warrant the reaction of being upset. Again with the black-and-white.

“Sounds simple...” No, it sounds like very black-and-white in reasoning. It’s not as simple as you’ve made it out to be. “yet why do people blame others when criticised?” Full stop. Why blame others when criticized? What approach are you taking now? I can’t go any further than ask those two questions are there are too many directions that this can branch in.

“Now you could fear criticism because you need to feel loved and approved of, but the problem with this scenario is that you're people pleasing,” It’s not the only reason, nor the only scenario.

“another cognitive distortion, leaving little time for you to live your life. Funnily enough, people often find people pleasers less desirable to be around due to a need of constant reassurance.” wherever you got this information was probably pointing this specific situation, of people pleasing. Attributing it to why a person reacts the way they do when criticized is misleading. There are alternative reasons. Stating that would have made more sense.

“What's your take on this subject? Are you vulnerable to criticism, or not? If so, why, if not, why not?” We are all vulnerable to it. There are several different ways in which we react to it. Being upset by someone criticizing you is normal.

 

[HëllaBubz]

To put it another way, when a person criticises you, the comments they make will either be right or wrong.

I have found that in my work with my T, being able to make myself feel safe, secure and worthy has had a massive impact on the impact of how I process criticism.

Perfect example would be my in-laws who love to tear me down......loved to make snide remarks about my lack of education, my PTSD, or about my partner etc.....so one day, after a fair bit of therapy, rather than grovelling, or getting angry and feeling like shit I turned around to him and said;

"Yes, you're right I don't have X, my OH and I identified that and we've been doing Y to address it and here is Z results. Did you have any other suggestions that might help or were you being a nasty little c*nt as usual?"

He was speechless.

A few years ago he might have been right but I would have been so insecure and so scared of my OH giving me crap because he's scared of upsetting his bro that it would have stressed ms to the point of being bedridden.

I have found that if you have the toolbox to process things, regardless of who they come from, and are regulated enough to either wipe out the nasty people with a succinct comment or give them a view of your confident fabulous ass on the way out, well you can handle almost anyone.

It takes such a very, very long time, but I can't tell you the amount if times I've had to collar and bitch slap my inner self so I can stand up for myself without self imposed ramifications and doubt afterwards.

Otherwise I hated myself for being weak and helpless and not defending the inner hurt child I knew was me and had a responsibility to protect.

 

[anthony]

Awesome...

 

[AmyArtist]

I respond very poorly to certain criticism that other times I am fine with. I guess it depends... on a lot of things. For example my emotions may not always be because I feel hurt at the criticism or hate myself more, I may be angry at their delivery etc.


I suffered a lot of negativity as a child - feelings of worthlessness mixed with confusion were regular. Then I had several abusing relationships.


But I have a question that may not be in the right place, but it's bugging me a lot lately:
When does criticism become abuse?
Is it abuse to be constantly told and reminded to do things, as if you are incapable of looking after yourself, by someone who cares? By that I mean "did you eat lunch today, you never eat lunch you should eat more lunch" or "go to sleep/bed earlier you know I think you stay up too late" or "smoking is bad for you, you should really quit", "you don't exercise enough" and "you have put on a lot of weight, you are no longer thin anymore". These criticisms and their solutions to the perceived issue with me are said to me regularly, as in at least every day but usually multiple times a day.


Is this just criticism? Or abuse? Or a grey area?


I try and view it as objectively as possible but it's as if constant repetition of them wears down my resolve to work through my self development at my own pace and I start to think that I am useless because I can't do all of these things that I probably already should have done by now; then I start to feel useless and worthless and loose motivation....


It's very confusing for me, the difference between normal criticism and abuse (or normal anything and abnormal, to a degree) as I had a really confusing upbringing with a manic-depressive single mother who was also a pedophile and abusive, sometimes she was nice other times she would yell and scream and nothing I did was right. Books and even my T have told me "you already know what is right and what is wrong". But, I don't always know.


I suppose this also has a big impact on how well I handle criticism.. I struggle with thinking of whether it is true or false or appropriate, as well as it being a trigger and my battles with low self confidence.


My apologies for any typos, I'm on my phone.

 

[anthony]

I will say criticism, based on your examples. Your examples don't come close to what is deemed emotional abuse. If someone criticises you daily, then that person is over-critical, though certainly not abusive.

 

[Notsowild]

Criticism with yelling. in your face/ space to me is verbal abuse. This is what I went through with my manager. She just is not a good boss and should have taken an anger management course. She is my constant trigger at work even though her demeanour is better ( because of upper management telling her to ease up on me especially with human rights involved now).

 

[LotusRoot]

I very much appreciate the underlying thought, that, at core, we are responsible for our response to our own emotions, regardless of other people, but also find that it is expressed in an over-simplified way.

Aside from the too black/white either/or way it’s expressed, you don’t seem to give any weight to our emotional selves – as if our hearts can be easily disregarded with a logic argument.

Plus it is not taking into account the gigantic size of the emotions attached to ptsd, which is by definition (I think) “over-whelming.” We’re struggling with real terror and horror here.

And while the ‘normals’ around us might not have a clue of what that means, we know that it is often a life/death struggle inside, long after the fists are gone, even if the today criticism is “tie up your shoes” – why should I when most of my body is saying I’m going to be beaten to a pulp any minute now?

Why? Because, yes, it’s a valid criticism. But more importantly, because I deeply need to recognize, and for my body to recognize, that I’m safe now. If I tangent into rage or despair – which is still quite likely for me – I will damage my life, create more pain, and my body will miss a much needed chance to walk through a normal interaction and know I am actually safe (and that my shoelaces are undone : - )

The struggle is big. I feel like I’m betraying the part of myself that protected me then – who rightly railed against the injustice – it takes a huge amount of energy, analysis, crying, etc, often there’s a bit of repressed memory there, that needs to be walked through, and that’s always terribly painful, if not horrific. I need to remind myself that the release is good. But there’s always the question of why this again.

There is movement, inch by inch, but I’m not sure it will ever be over.

I dont think I'm disagreeing with you, but maybe there's an un-intentional tone of 'get over it', which makes it sound more simple and easy than it is, or that we are.

 

[anthony]

@LotusRoot your last statement is exactly what this discussion outlines, because you are making an interpretation, where this discussion has at no stage said, get over it, or other such instance. You are 100% responsible for your thoughts. You came to that conclusion yourself. Your brain. Nobody implied it nor said it.

Emotions come from your thoughts. Your thoughts are your brain. So they're actually one in the same. This is far from simple, yet doesn't make it any less factual.