Destroying Our Past

[Jimmy1]

jimmy do you mean reduce the emotions attached to the objects?

No mate. The objects and traumas stay with you for life, but you can change how you think about them and what they make you feel.
Will talk more when I get out of hospital

 

[Sarg]

Fallenangel, if you want, you can get a replacement ribbons here: Dead Link Removed I think they're free you just send them a DD214. I used to be ashamed of my medals but over the years, began to understand that they stood as testimony of my love of country. So, I got a new set and framed them up and hung them on the wall.

Sarg

 

[daniel]

No mate. The objects and traumas stay with you for life, but you can change how you think about them and what they make you feel.
Will talk more when I get out of hospital

alright sounds good. you take it easy until you go in. to much too fast gets many overly worked up. godspeed

 

[Jimmy1]

Its all over and done. Home today.

 

[Jimmy1]

Daniel,

I will probably end up waffling, so I will apologise in advance.

Traumas are memories, just bad ones which we have not been able to deal with.
A good memory like a birthday, or your first woman, we can recall those and smile. They are filed away with other memories. Some of those memories like the death of a mate or parent might be unhappy, but if you have dealt with them, your memories of those evens don't last for long even though they are sad.
But memories of battle are different.

Now comes the waffle.

What I was talking about happens with nearly every veteran. The great big military machine teaches us to fight and use anger. We are not allowed to grieve for a mate on the battlefield, its get even, use anger. If we are smiling, we are up to something. So the easiest way to deal with anything is anger, its accepted in the military.
Then they throw us out on the street after years of conditioning and expect us to function like normal people. Well we don't see the world through rose colored glasses. To us its black or white with very few grey areas.

We do learn other emotions though later on. And those we don't know how to deal with and they have never taught us to. They are emotions such as grief, guilt etc. Every other emotion is locked up, but grief and guilt are new.
Anybody who has killed somebody or been a part of killing somebody in battle do not feel elation. At the time, its life, kill or be killed. But later on in life when reality hits along comes the guilt and remorse and the mighty military machine is not there anymore to help.

Am home now, but still a little sore. Will have to take a can of harden up and go lie down for a bit.

 

[Barberian]

I've been mentaly dancing around this thread for a few days. I destroyed all my working uniforms when I retired, I kept my dress uniforms (dress whites and blues). I kept my ribbons and medals. I just packed them away, never expecting to break them out again. I'm conflicted about my service. On one hand I'm proud as hell to have had the privledge of serving my country, on the other hand... I hate what the war criminals Bush and Cheney did with us, to us. I'm conflicted on the lives that were taken becaue of my active and enthusiastic participation in the war. I did everything I could to make sure the aircraft in our squadron were ready and able to deliver ordinance on target, on time whenever, where ever the boys in the sands and streets called for them. I know that many civilian lives were lost because of this. I have no way to accuratly count the lives that were taken by my squadron. I know the pilots were just doing thier jobs to the best of thier abilities, as was I. I know that in modern warfare fewer civilian lives have been taken than in history in any war prior to precision guided ordinance be it from a tank, artilery or airplane. It doesn't make it feel any better late at night when the guilt monster comes calling.

I knew I would have difficulty with this thread, and boy was I right. I've broken down several times now, bordreline hysterical cry, rage, laugh all at the same time, alternate between the three. I knew I was messed up on this issue by taking so long to post on it, I didn't realize just how much "wieght" is still there. Still not sure where my head is at or will be but need to close out this post so I can go on a long walk (well as long as my physical pain will let me).

War... ain't it hell...

Sometimes I ask did we really survive it, or did the best parts of us die back there?

 

[Anglesachse]

I was watching Brit sat TV the other day, and there is a Documentary film, just starting "Young Soldiers". all about 3 lads who join up and their trip through training, and how one of them is going straight from Basic Training to Predeployment training with the Rifles Regiment he is joining, as they are off to Afghan a couple of months later.

You see these lads, Spotty faced little jack the lads, going through Bayonett drills. 4 or 5 at a time while the others in the troop are waiting, those that are waiting are all stood in the background watching their mates do their "War Face" and "War Cry" stuff and all the time they are screamimg "KILL; KILL; KILL" while waiting to be called forward to run the dummies with bayonetts fixed.

I never realised up untill I saw that Documentary Film, that, that is exactly what we did too, I have seen the "Your not in the Army now" vid, and talked loads of stuff through with my Therapist. But actually watching it on TV at home, just hit home so bad. I was somewhere between Crying and Raging. (Good thing is I can now say what I fealt and why) And the only thing that was going through my head is "WHY?" "Why send these kids? Send us that are f*cked up anyway"

tuppence again

 

[Jimmy1]

I knew I would have difficulty with this thread, and boy was I right. I've broken down several times now, bordreline hysterical cry, rage, laugh all at the same time, alternate between the three. I knew I was messed up on this issue by taking so long to post on it, I didn't realize just how much "wieght" is still there. Still not sure where my head is at or will be but need to close out this post so I can go on a long walk (well as long as my physical pain will let me).

War... ain't it hell...

Sometimes I ask did we really survive it, or did the best parts of us die back there?

Hey dude, just the fact that your mentally processing these thoughts is a good thing. Put them away again and do it again another day

 

[daniel]

i burned all my shit when i got back to the world. only thing i kept was a bayonet and that got confiscated when a whole shitload of them laws swooped down on me and my crime partner (another Marine and nam vet) back in the 70s. I have a combat action ribbon, my bootcamp photo and dd214. Oh yeah and a whole 'nuther lifetime of memories. Only thing I really cant get rid of is the fact I am (for good or bad) a Marine for life . . .

Then 20 years after when I went in for help, I got all Professional Vietnam Veteran, PTSD Patient and started sporting paraphenalia and such. Reseached my combat records, got my military records. Just walked the veteran walk. Fact is I hated my time in the service and could not wait to get the hell out. Only thing I was proud of and something that took many years to talk about was my time in Vietnam. Vicious cycle . . .

Jimmy I was just talking about the physical objects we hold on to. The triggers are with us even in sleep. As a PTSDer how many pleasant triggers do most of us really have? Specially when the volcano is rumbling from within!

Barberian you need to slow your roll. Bro your making your own brain swirl to fast. Some times it is best not to over analyze things. Take a whole bunch of deep breaths and exhale, until it slows . . . Way down the road when you have dissect all "the war" then you have to dissect the quality of the life you land up with.

 

[Sarg]

Nothing but a poisonous fog here. Pain and fog.

Sarg

 

[Jimmy1]

Jimmy I was just talking about the physical objects we hold on to. The triggers are with us even in sleep. As a PTSDer how many pleasant triggers do most of us really have? Specially when the volcano is rumbling from within!

Daniel, I am glad you brought this point up. There is a lot of confusion about triggers/flashbacks etc, even though the two can accompany each other.
The said in the course I did to try and remove all the 'Triggers' that cause ill feeling and your emotions to flare. The 'Triggers' that cause flashbacks and force us into isolation as we can't control our moods.

Right now I am dealing with trust, rejection, and disrespect.

I think when we all return and 'The Beast' shows its head we try and get rid of the past that we think is causing these memories. i.e. burning our uniforms or giving them away, throwing away our medals. But most of this is done irrationally. For me, I trusted the military and gave my life for them. They showed me total disrespect, rejected me because I was broken which in turn was a lack of trust. So I ended up blaming the mighty military machine as a whole. I was a Warrant Officer and held a position of respect only to be placed in a unit to wait out my time. So once they gave me that bit of paper, I got rid of all the memories thinking it was them that caused it. But it wasn't.

I was going through some personal stuff I keep in a big plastic storage container. Things I have thrown in that I thought the kids would like down the track. And I found some pleasant triggers. Even photo's of my mates serving on some of those old bullshit exercises, ones I enjoyed. It brought a smile. (that is the definition) A trigger in my opinion is an occurrence or a reminder that brings on an emotion. I found photo's of me driving an old Mark 5 International (six wheeler). It would not go above 45 mph unless you were going down hill.

So there are pleasant triggers and I have scanned those photo's for those times.

You see, the things I got rid of which triggered 'Flashbacks' no longer cause them. It used to be people wearing desert pattern uniform, or any photo or video footage. Now its not so harsh. I am not going to go and watch 'The Hurt Locker', and sometimes news footage takes me back, but not as real as they were.
But there are always the triggers which are lurking which we are unprepared for which can trigger a flashback. A smell, a vehicle riding low on the axle, a specific sight or smell which just puts you back there. They will go with time and is why a lot of veterans isolate to the boonies. No chance there they think, but the problem is more psychological than that.

Hope I have not waffled too much.

 

[dave1]

I gave away everything that wasn't stollem before I came home from Vietnam. All that was left were those memories I couldn't forget but I couldn't talk about either. Years later, my wife asked me to write down a couple of stories because I still couldn't put a whole sentence together without feeling overwhelmed. There were a lot of long pauses sniffling and watery eyes, but all I couldn't say seemed to pour out on paper. It's been a great relief not worrying about forgetting. I'd always felt guilty that forgetting what happened would be dishonoring to those who didn't make it home. The experiences, good and bad, also became a part of my family's legacy - a part that they couldn't understand until they read it. My son told his Mom, "I don't blame Dad anymore."

It was the right time for me, though it came after years of anger, frustration, depression and guilt. Not sure why it took so long, wish it could have happened sooner, but it couldn't have happened at all until I was ready.

Jimmy, what I'm sure about is that you'll get through this.