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Dissociation Diagnosis Issues Etc

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It's the name of my favourite album, thanks :)

I don't care about labels anymore... my mother (abuser) was so obsessed with them that she lied about them, refused particular treatments, etc etc ... ultimately you can call it any name under the sun to me, as long as I get better! :) It can be useful to have something to use as a handle to understand something... but ultimately trauma is too personal, and psychology is a profession practiced by humans with their own interpretations... so the cycle of perspectives goes on!
 
It's false to say that if you dissociate at all then you have a dissociative disorder. Many people have the experience of dissociating while driving, but that doesn't mean they have a dissociative disorder.
Sorry i meant that in relation to sexual trauma as in this case - I wasn't referring to normal everyday dissociation
 
Some great advice has been given here, better than any I could offer.

Couple random comments though:

I totally agree with Unhalfbricking. As has been said here and in some other related threads, labels have their use in tagging, grouping and identifying symptoms and in suggesting avenues of treatment that are likely to be appropriate, and for some people they can help to give definition and meaning to what may have always felt like a secret, mysterious and impossible-to-understand personal experience. They can also help to reassure people that they are not alone and their experience is not unique - if this "thing" has a name, then I guess other people must know about it!

But ultimately, where the boundaries begin to blur, or if the label becomes too prescriptive and the resulting response by the sufferer or professional is too presumptuous or without consideration of the person's unique circumstance, they become unhelpful at best and destructive at worst.

I think that from a sufferer's perspective, as long as you can explain or in some other way communicate your subjective experience of what is happening to you in the case of dissociating/flashing back or whatever else, that's all that matters in terms of helping your professional understand how to address and help you with the issue.

There are as many ways to communicate about trauma symptoms as there are symptoms and people who suffer from them, and as long as you find a way that works for you and your professional, then that's great.

Also wanted to comment on psychometric tests and other related tick-&-flick assessment tools... again, I think they have their place if used wisely and sparingly and as a diagnostic aid only. A good professional would never, ever rely solely on the results of a test, or even a whole battery of empirically validated tests. It's easy to lie (spoken from gross amounts of personal experience) or to feel that none of the available options do justice to your desired answer (again, from personal experience), or to simply grow bored and complacent with what are often incredibly arduous questionnaires.

I completed a whole raft of these early on in therapy and they conclusively indicated that I was severely depressed, and nothing else. Then again, as stated above, I did blatantly lie on most of them...

Thankfully I had a T who took note of the results, derived some foundation knowledge and initial lines of inquiry from my responses, but sensed enough to know that my story was definitely not being told at that point.

Only through frank and detailed discussion with a qualified professional can a diagnosis truly be made.

Everyone has a right to that, and a responsibility to hold up their end of the bargain when the opportunity is there. That's why therapy is, in essence, a contract, because both parties agree to do certain things in support of the other's role. In this case, the sufferer must offer up honesty and self disclosure in exchange for the confidentiality, receptiveness and professional judgment of the therapist. If either party fail to live up to their end of the bargain, the result will never be a successful outcome.

Maddog
 
According to experts in Dissociation, it is mutable, and the diagnosis will often need to change if more is uncovered slowly over time with care: _The Stranger in the Mirror: Dissociation: the Hidden Epidemic_ by Marlene Steinberg (2000) makes this claim. According to Dr. Steinberg, dissociation is the new frontier; it is, as Hellipig already said, not a concept easily studied at a distance.

I think dissociation should be named after the Greek myth of "Daphne" as it must mutate to survive, go from human to tree in a nanosecond, on the run, to avoid violation. It is "on the run," and by it's very necessity it is "shifty," because it is do or die for the sufferer. How can we even begin to conceive of dissociation as fixed over time enough to label? How can we dissect something so in flux except by it's rate of flux in a given period of time? It is problematic. It is slippery and will change faster than the patient or doctor will like. Put on your Nike's.

Moreover, Steinberg's opinion is that it takes time in therapy to begin addressing a provisional diagnosis and that over time, DID often becomes the new diagnosis. (Yes, the DID sufferer has the necessity to hide it from herself, almost by definition.) I read compassion, dedication, and diagnosis as less a means to an end as a tool on the therapeutic journey. Almost ad nauseum, Steinberg highlights the dignity of the dissociated patient. Why the need? If she doesn't see those with DID as, "a dancing bear" it seems the vast majority of her colleagues do.

We are all human. I read her need to remind her reader of this theme throughout her book as a diagnosis of our mental health medical culture as deeply flawed, rooted in oppressive ideologies of the patient. Of course, she rides in on a white horse to save us, but that doesn't negate her point. She bravely makes it, horse or no horse. And I humbly beg for more like Hellipig and Steinberg; change will arise from demand, not supply. So I guess we will simply have to cease to frequent the offices of the textbook therapists, even if that means getting no therapy at all or spending more time searching for a good therapist than receiving actual therapy itself. If PTSD and DID/Dissociative patients continue to put up with flawed therapy, then that's all our children and their children will be able to get. But the good ones,' if you can find them, have practices that are rightly full. What to do?

Muse
 
What a fab post muse, very profound. I agree with so much you say.

It is slippery and will change faster than the patient or doctor will like.

Moreover, Steinberg's opinion is that it takes time in therapy to begin addressing a provisional diagnosis and that over time, DID often becomes the new diagnosis.

Muse

I can understand where she is coming from on this. The iceberg idea really applies to dissociation, and the complexity and strangeness of it defies any attempt to categorise it. Sadly many therapists and doctors haven't even really heard of it, and at the very least are a bit supicious or scathing because they believe it to be a-la-Sybil and very rare. The reality is is that it is everywhere. There are so many traumatised people, and more being createed everyday.

Those who have been badly traumatised have labrynth upon labrynth of hidey holes and shifting defences that are too complicated for anyone but the patient to get a sense of and how on earth the brain finally manages to re-connect the parts and become a new whole is mind boggling. The DSM categories in relation to dissociation is a bit like trying to find a way round a country village whilst looking at a satellite map of the entire earth. The best therapists understand this and approach it well aware of their own humility and ignorance, and wanting to learn alongside their client in this walk through hell.
 
Yes, thank you for validating my life, and, others' lives. This is a subjective reality that our culture, in its belief in its own civility, has forgotten. Historically, children witnessed pubic executions and other horrors. We used to know the depths of our own capacity and proclivity toward depravity. Those who witnessed conflicts and lived as POW's know. Now, it's a secret we who lived it at home are asked to keep.
 
ScaredofLonely, there is not a right or wrong diagnosis here, there is you as person suffering inside that is seeking for help and healing. Sometimes, specialists do not know exactly in which little box they should put you, so they put you in the one that says ''not otherwise specified'', as if everyone should go in a box. But the most important thing is your recovery and that you may find, if you want, a Therapist that could help you.
The main tool for a therapist to help you is not a guideline of treatment steps according to a certain diagnosis, but the relationship between the Therapist and you. The rest are just techniques and everyone is different. I am a specialized educator, I work with intellectually handicaped adults and my main tool had always been my relationship with my clients no matter the techniques I use.
 
And actually, I'd like for Anthony to weigh in on the "not everyone with PTSD dissociates" line. It was my understanding that everyone with PTSD DOES dissociate in that a flashback is dissociation from the present that requires grounding.
Not everyone with PTSD dissociates outside the normal boundary of what every human being dissociates. You don't have to dissociate to have PTSD.

Dissociation is actually a learnt behaviour, when it goes to the extent of beyond normal. Keep reading why!

Everyone dissociates, from forgetting what you just said, to automatically driving from point a to point b, and not really remembering in-between. What isn't dissociating, is if you went to the dentist, are scared of a dentist, thus you intentionally push yourself elsewhere... that is not dissociating, that is an avoidance strategy that is intentional.

The key element of anything to do with dissociation is, "an unconscious act".

The moment you consciously do something, that is avoidance. Hence, being the difference between them.

Behaviour can be a conscious or unconscious act... still it is learnt, not inherited or genetic.

Like anything, for it to become an actual disorder of itself, it must go outside the normal spectrum of normal, it must impact your daily life enough that it creates problems for functioning in either of several areas.

DID - Everyone has multiple voices / elements within. Confident, shy, doubtful, avoidant, etc. We all have sub-personalities (alters), knowingly or not, everyone has them. They are normal... though they are not distinctive. What differentiates DID, being extremely rare and currently over-diagnosed due to confusion of wording, is that in 97% of cases, the person has severe childhood abuse where they have literally grown-up having to have all these different identities in order to survive. They have integrated through to adulthood, again, beyond normalcy of what everyone already has.

IMHO, 99.9% of people diagnosed with this, are misdiagnosed. People with it can take that as they see fit, but I hold the same opinion on DID as the majority of the mental health industry does.

DDNOS - This is typical when the dissociation is simply so much of a problem, outside the realm of acceptable dissociation as part of PTSD, that they then diagnose it uniquely, as it interferes individually to the extent it incapacitates the person beyond PTSD incapacitating the person. In other words, you have two things primarily incapacitating you.

Flashbacks - Whilst flashbacks are a dissociative state, they are of themselves. Flashbacks are also very rare, and very few people with PTSD actually have flashbacks. Flashbacks are a literal reliving of the event, not just a passing moment, thought, memory or trigger, which many confuse them with. They're either a replay in your mind of the event or they're an emotional replay through feeling... again, not to be confused with a moment of panic, trigger or fleeting memory, as they are longer lasting than those instantaneous moments.

Dissociation is often found in those who have been sexually abused as children, most commonly when the abuse was by a primary care giver. That is where dissociation becomes learnt due to the nature of the relationship and traumatic aspects of what that person is doing. The majority of highly dissociative persons come from childhood abuse due to a primary caregiver. It is a minority outside this scope.

Soldiers are common to have flashbacks to specific emotional events, as they are less emotion bound, thus flashbacks are more sudden and longer lasting due to a soldier primarily using avoidance as their coping strategy, so they suffer flashbacks instead of outright dissociation.
 
TY all for weighing in.

Not your fault in the least, but I am more confused than ever. IMHO dissociation is not a major issue for me. I have had three episodes of derealzation in the past three years, one of which was drug fueled, so it can't be counted as a symptom of trauma. Once was driving to therapy, and the other was after an intense art therapy session. I don't see these as major symptoms (due to the infrequency) and now that the precipitating trigger has been processed, I don't anticipate it happening again.

I'm going to continue working on healing as I have as it has helped me...well, when I work it right. Neither my current tdoc or pdoc have indicated any suspicion of a dissociative disorder, and the last hospital (Sheppard-Pratt) tested me multiple times with the conclusion that I do not have DDNOS.

Again, I know I am worrying incessantly because I feel invalidated. I know I need to let it go and proceed with treatment as I have been. If more dissociative episodes happen, then I'll consider them to be an issue that needs to be worked on, but until then...

I know much of this is hardly-charted territory, but I jet wish there was more consensus among the psychiatric community.

Thanks again to all who commented, I really do appreciate it.

Hugs,
SOL
 
Not your fault in the least, but I am more confused than ever.
Dissociation is actually very simple, it's more that some people over-complicate it. Put simply, in relation to a person with trauma that has induced PTSD there is:

Normal Dissociation

A person has PTSD, yet doesn't have any dissociation outside the normal scope that every human being on the planet experiences in mild, daily forms.

Dissociation Symptom

A person has PTSD, and slightly dissociates for brief periods when facing trauma, but doesn't dissociate regularly on a daily basis that causes clinical significant impact in their daily functioning.

Dissociation Disorder

A person has PTSD, and whilst PTSD itself may be debilitating, the person dissociates heavily where "by itself" the dissociation causes clinically significant distress and impairment within their daily lives.

Whilst due to the trauma, it is now a comorbid diagnosis to PTSD, as it wouldn't have existed without the trauma.

---------------------------------------------

That's how simple dissociation is in the context of life and trauma.

If you fit into the last one, then there are obvious specific diagnostic criteria that may fit you into one or another label.
 
Ty Anthony.

By my own assessment I fit into the second category. The responses on those dissociation questionnaires would most likely put me in this category, too.

The confusion lies in the fact that much of the info I received on dissociative disorders was from a hospital that treated mainly DID patients. I *know* that everything they told me wasn't 100% accurate (in regards to dissociation and other issues...yes, an excellent treatment hospital on the whole, but they treated all of us as though we had DID, even though not all of us actually did, hence where the confusion comes in). I'm still sorting it out, but the picture is much clearer. I'm going to bring it up with my therapist this week and see what she says.

Hugs,
SOL
 
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