Do Some Perpetrators Get Ptsd From Their Crimes?

[Algo]

This occurred to me because of something that I read on the site. I am sure the majority of perpetrators would not as they don't feel enough to do so, but I wonder if some do. Those acting in a moment of insanity or intense emotional states or even in defence for example.

It seems to me it is possible.

Any thoughts anyone?

Shrien Dewani apparently has PTSD and of course he has not yet been found guilty but it seems possible he did the crime.

 

[Ketej]

I don't know the news story about Shrien Dewani, so I don't have any opinion on that, other than presumably this is someone who has not had a trial or is in the middle of one and already outsiders are deciding if he is innocent or guilt, based only what they read in the media. JMHO.

I'm not really sure about perpetrators getting PTSD from something they did to someone else, unless their life was in danger or they had to do something horrible because of the situation they were in. I suppose I would read the diagnostic criteria and have a think about it, if it was important to me to answer the question. It seems possible to me as well, but it would all depend on the context of what had happened and their reaction to it. People do all kinds of things when they aren't in a rational place. Again, just my honest opinion.

 

[Ewazag]

I hope they do. I hope they suffer! It'd be a small comfort.

 

[Simumi]

I think some are actually suffering from PTSD at the time of the incident(s). I say this because it is a confirmed fact that my ex was abused as a small boy by his father. I think rather than continue to be a victim, he "identifies" with his original abuser and victimizes others. This gives me the ability to not hate him- but hate the behavior.

Ever see a little kid hitting another one? This may be due to seeing this by the adult role models or actually experiencing it first hand. Just because someone bullies or hurts another doesn't mean they aren't acting out of PTSD aggression/impulsiveness.

 

[Algo]

Thanks. Interesting.

I thought of death of a loved one for example but maybe the person is the one responsible and actually murdered them. That maybe the horror of it hits home at the time and after. The reality of death. Lets say they are in a rage and then find that they have done something that is horrific.

It seems to me that murderers would fall into different categories. The psychopath/antisocial personality and narcissistic types and then the types who may not be impaired in the empathic department but who may have impulse control issues, mental health issues or have alcohol or drug problems which influence their actions. I imagine the first lot are unlikely to feel horror etc but maybe the second lot may.

You are totally correct that Dewani has not yet been tried and so there is no way of knowing his guilt or innocence. It is wrong to speculate really. I just happen to have been to the country and the area where the murder occurred (you can google the name if you are interested) and so his story makes zero sense to me and although I am still open minded I think there is a good chance he did it. Some would think, "PTSD, he must be innocent" but I am not at all sure. Just using him as an example here and he isn't what spurred the thread. He is alleged to have hired the killers of his new bride on their honeymoon.

Even someone drunken driving and responsible for someones death is an example.

 

[Filonu]

I think I know what you saw elsewhere that causes you to ask this.

I think in general, a perpetrator simply couldn't get PTSD from the act of traumatizing someone else because it wouldn't meet criterion A. Of course, war is different. Soldiers are trained to kill and many come back with PTSD from the things they were commanded to do. We don't call soldiers "perpetrators" as they're doing their job, but there is a parallel in how their actions may cause PTSD in not only others, but themselves. (I'm not a soldier, and mean no disrespect.)

Stop me if I'm wrong, but I believe the OP is referring to those who, for example, murder someone and then say that the act of murder itself is what caused their PTSD. The argument that those with PTSD commit the offense after getting PTSD is more of a tangent, and different than the actual act causing PTSD. (Op, stop me if I'm wrong!)

 

[Lawo]

Whoops, I didn't see the last post.... Took too long to reply!

 

[Algo]

I didn't see the 3 rd and 4 th post until now. Yes, you are right, Filonu. I was not meaning to discuss those with PTSD who may perpetrate a crime after being diagnosed or as a result of PTSD . It is maybe a discussion for another thread.

hink in general, a perpetrator simply couldn't get PTSD from the act of traumatizing someone else because it wouldn't meet criterion A.

But see, the person is still being exposed to or witnessing death so in some ways it could fall under criterion A. Seeing someone die from non natural causes would qualify I believe. Someone correct me.

I do believe that soldiers who have committed acts that they feel guilty about are more likely to get PTSD. I think I have read that somewhere.

 

[Lawo]

I think you're being nit-picky and as a non-professional you can interpret the DSM in a myriad of ways when in fact there is more to diagnosing someone than just going down a check list.

I think it makes me sick that there is a possibility of someone being able to traumatize someone else (through rape, murder, assault, etc) but later being able to garner sympathy and support after getting PTSD. I also think it takes away from the seriousness of the disorder. As in, "what a joke! You gave yourself PTSD!" I can just see it now, we are often brushed aside as it is... Then what happens in a court of law? Lets feel sorry for the perpetrator because he is suffering from PTSD and deserves leniency as he is already suffering, etc. A can of worms I hope doesn't get opened!

 

[Uvug]

Just because someone bullies or hurts another doesn't mean they aren't acting out of PTSD aggression/impulsiveness.

Whilst I agree with everything you said, there is a difference between PTSD and anger / impulsiveness. They are not mutually exclusive and PTSD is a very specific diagnosis.

 

[Usok]

Dewani is a good example of what may possibly happen in this regard. If he turnsa out to have done the crime then he would have had very preferential care att the cost of the victims family (their great distress at having to wait for the trial for so long) and because of PTSD.

He has been protected and not extradited for all this time because of it - what was discribed as serious mental health issues. It is only after South Africa assured that his PTSD would be treated in a certain ways and he was supposedly stable enough that his extradiction is now going through.

I am certainly not suggesting anything! If anything is in place then it is there already. If PTSD does occur as a result of perpetrating crimes then it seems people are discreet because of the contraversy of the whole issue as we don't hear anything about it.

Essentially I am just wondering what the reality is as I have an interest in knowing truths no matter how uncomfortable they may be. I find knowing the reality of different peoples possible mindsets has actually helped me in my own receovery. For one it has helped me be able to prtect myself better and be less affected by certain types of people.

 

[Canak]

I think this is where the new criteria falls down. It has taken out the helplessness, horror and fear aspects.

If you've already been traumatised, already got PTSD, then you probably experiencing at least one of helplessness, horror and fear when acting out on someone else.

If you don't have PTSD and you commit a trauma on someone else without acting on helplessness, horror or fear, then afterwards it can't be PTSD. Could be all sorts of things but leave PTSD out of it.

With the new criteria maybe it's different, but to me it's still the same. My view is: if you weren't acting out of helplessness, horror and fear then causing trauma in others can't give you PTSD.

In the military it's different IMHO. I'm not military but my humble opinion is it's not a crime and the whole situation is different so it doesn't compare to this example.