Drawing That Line.

[mary1979]

I really hope people will discuss this one with me at length.
Its really an important discussion, both in general and to me personally.
I've always battled with it.

So the thought started a week or two ago, and was originally in relation to what constitutes rape, however my thoughts have grown beyond.

It pertains mostly to people who have lived through abuse, of the physical,sexual or emotional kind I think. But maybe vets also, I cannot say because I've never been a soldier.

To you, personally (not what any law dictates) what constitutes abuse?
Abuse that YOU yourself will not tolerate?
Where do you say, ok what you have done/said is unacceptable and i won't have it.
Is it yelling?
Name calling?
Being restrained?
Being demanded of something in the bedroom by a long term partner that they know you wont like?
If as a woman you hit, do you expect to be hit back?

All avenues of thought. I am curious to hear others thoughts.

I get the feeling that as a victim of sexual, physical and emotional abuse, I might take more than say someone from a steady, wholesome upbringing before I stand and say 'hey you know what, I deserve more'
Do other survivors feel this?
Or has it made them more aware of their line and hypervigilant about upholding it?

Sorry for the ramble.
This has been festering away in here for days.

 

[Lionheart]

I am a survivor of all types of child abuse and it seems to me that you would benefit from reviewing your basic human rights, so that you know what you deserve and what you do not owe to others. If you have a therapist / counselor you could talk to them and/or search the internet and this site for more information.

Anything that is against your will and well-being could be considered abusive, but again, I recommend that you look into your human rights.

I hope this is helpful,

sincerely,
Lionheart777

 

[mary1979]

I am a survivor of all types of child abuse and it seems to me that you would benefit from reviewin...

Thank you for your response @Lionheart777


So you believe that your own experiences have not caused you to stray from the generally accepted norms at all?

Nor have you behaved in a manner during your ptsd which would constitute a break in those conditions?

 

[Kintsugi]

What defines abuse is a pretty long, winding avenue to go down, but I will say this much: I tolerate violations of myself very nonchalantly, but I have next to zero tolerance for seeing others violated. Because of my abuse, I think I have a much lower flash point than others when witnessing violations of another person, whether it be to their person or their dignity.

 

[Lionheart]

Most of my old behavior that I would consider outside of the norm was a past compulsion to repeat the abuse, known as repition compulsion as well as poor choices of coping skills.

Having said that, I functioned much better once I had positive coping skills in place and knew and understood all of my basic human rights so that I did know what constituted abuse! Once I was thoroughly familiar with my rights, I stopped accepting abusive behavior from others and self-abuse as well.

I also had professional help from a trained trauma therapist to help me seperate what is healthy from what is abusive and was told that most people need to be educated in that area. I consider my human rights as a sort of rule book for what is acceptable behavior and what is abusive and therefore not acceptable.

https://www.myptsd.com/threads/basic-human-rights.43300/ this may be helpful to you.

 

[scout86]

Great topic! But very complicated.......

Myself, I can relate to what @Simply Simon said very much.

What makes something "abusive"? Is it that the treatment is over the top "bad"? That it's "undeserved"? If it's that, how does one know what's "deserved"?

The specific things you mentioned......If someone yells at me or calls me names, that's their choice. I'll probably yell back. I might walk away. As long as I can walk away, I'd call it questionable behavior, not "abuse". If I'm compelled to stay, somehow, then I'd consider it maybe abusive. I won't tolerate being restrained. I don't know that that's because I see it as "abuse". I think it's more that it's a trigger and, if someone tries to restrain me I'm going to come unglued and consider it an appropriate reaction.

Being demanded of something in the bedroom by a long term partner that they know you wont like?

Demanded? I'm gone!
If I hit someone, I expect them to hit back (and am prepared to duck.)

 

[mary1979]

What defines abuse is a pretty long, winding avenue to go down, but I will say this much: I tolerat...

Yes, I think many of us survivors would carry this trait.
I guess though it depends.
I found my sympathy level on a thread where a young woman who was intoxicated, had sex and later felt violated intolerable to myself once I read it back to myself after I typed.

But my daughters bf recently yelled at her and stomped his feet a little and I flew into a crazy mumma protective rage 'NOONE FRIGHTENS MY BABY'

Yet I've made excuses for my partners not just yelling, but actually really hurting me.

As a Mum this is bad news
They learn what is acceptable from me :(

Do you think you could change that view with better self worth @Simply Simon?
Or stuck with it?

 

[mary1979]

Great topic! But very complicated.......

Myself, I can relate to what @Simply Simon...

Do you yourself yell @scout86?
Or name call?

Do you think there is EVER an excuse good enough to warrant hitting another?

 

[Kintsugi]

I think my reactions sit on an extremely unbalanced seesaw, with other people being violated weighed down to the ground on the one side and me being violated sitting pretty in the air on the other.

Given this, I would just like the two sides to balance in a healthy middle ground. I would not like to always be as protective of myself as I am of others, because that wouldn't be ideal, either. I have no interest in being hyper defensive.

I think it can, will, and has changed. I've made major progress since I joined here, mostly thanks to being coached by the community and especially Anthony on assertive communication. I am lucky that I found this resource when I was pretty young. It has fostered a much more healthy voyage into the world of adulthood for me.

ETA: I want to put in my two cents and say that there are plenty of appropriate times to hit others, and I do hit people expecting to be hit back, although I wonder if this is age-dependent behavior. In my twenties, well-intentioned soft blows to the arm are much different from breaking someone's nose.

A few months ago, I hit my friend's husband much harder than I meant to. We were pretty drunk at that point. He got me back good, but he (having superior strength) didn't go over-the-top. I don't ever hit people I don't trust to react appropriately (in proportion to my actions and with the same basic regard for my feelings that I have for them).

 

[mary1979]

I think my reactions sit on an extremely unbalanced seesaw, with other people being violated weighe...

Do you mind me asking, were you verbally abused as a child?

 

[scout86]

I sometimes yell. I do have a temper, and I can get frustrated, and I sometimes yell when I do. (Often just at the universe in general. LOL)

Name calling? In the "You SOB!" sense, sometimes. In the more specific "you're a worthless POS" sense? No, I don't. I took my share of that when I was a kid. Didn't like it and won't dish it out to ANYONE.

Yes, I think there are sometimes reason that justify hitting someone. Self defense is one. Defense of someone who can't defend themselves is another. MAYBE, in rare situations, I can justify swatting a kid to get their attention. That would depend very much on the kid. Personally, I think I'd rather have been hit than deal with name calling and yelling. Not that that makes it right. But, in general, I don't see hitting as a special thing. It's how, why, and when it's done. Hitting someone who should be an equal, to intimidate them is one thing. Hitting someone in defense of yourself or another, is something else. A swat on the bottom of a kid who thinks you can talk till you're blue in the face is another. (Maybe a really good parent wouldn't let it get to that point anyway?)

 

[Kintsugi]

@mary1979 I think I was. It's taken me awhile to comes to grips with that. My mother went through a period of about three years where she yelled at me every day for 2-5 hours at a time over essentially nothing.

I'm with scout. I used to always wonder why my mother couldn't just hit me and get it over with. Her father was extremely verbally and emotionally abusive toward her.