Emotional reasoning ..... an ingrained cognitive distortion

[ms spock]

I get the internal trigger stuff. Egads I am learning so much. I think that this could led to intrusive thoughts and going in a loop? Possibly being stuck?

 

[EvenStrongerNow]

I get the internal trigger stuff. Egads I am learning so much. I think that this could led to intrusive thoughts and going in a loop? Possibly being stuck?

I believe so Ms. Spock. At least that's what I'm realizing recently in my own journey. I never experienced looping or feelings of being stuck before the trauma. Now, I experience what I thought was an emotional dysregulation. It seems now that because it comes with the looping that it is indeed trauma related. I never knew about internal triggers until the past couple of days. I don't even know how I came upon it. I was googling about PTSD and read it in a medical journal of some type--it hit home for me.

Well, I suppose that explains how I came upon it ;)

 

[ms spock]

Now, I experience what I thought was an emotional dysregulation. It seems now that because it comes with the looping that it is indeed trauma related.

Ah that is very interesting to me. There is so much to learn.

The difference between rumination that is looping and looping that is trauma related or looping that is emotional dysregulation. I need to work on this.

 

[EvenStrongerNow]

By the way Eleanor, I just took the time to read your post. That was awesome! Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Tinyflame]

Oh my, well I can identify trauma related looping. But then there is also emotional flooding.

LH, illness for me is a trigger in likely more than one way, but one I know for sure is it is a trigger that goes back to how unwell I felt after a suicide attempt. Then the shame tags along (cognitive) that I felt then, for causing others problems (though they didn't know about it), thinking of myself as 'weak' and 'nuts' also. Add in the fear of the future (income/ working jeopardized). To this day the more unwell I feel the more shame I feel and more likely I am to 'hide'. Ugh. :( I think the trigger starts the process. And being unwell leaves one less able to fight it, too.

I once used to have a terrible fear of going in to a particular building and tried very hard to avoid it. I thought I knew 'why' in the Big Picture, but the real trigger was (that plus) the carpetting. And not exactly the carpetting, it's likely been changed, , but rather I should say the physical action of looking down at the carpetting. And I know exactly why, and how it related back to the original incidence and what I felt then. And it was what was making me feel exactly the same when I did (in the present).

:hug: , hope you are feeling better.

 

[EvenStrongerNow]

Ah that is very interesting to me. There is so much to learn.

The difference between rumination that is looping and looping that is trauma related or looping that is emotional dysregulation. I need to work on this.

Yea, I don't really know. It seems the three go hand in hand. Internal triggers are new to me. I know about them now but I'm not sure what to do with them lol At first, I was excited because I see opportunity in it. At the same time, I'm like, "Well, what the hell? My own feelings trigger trauma?!" Crap! :) It will come. I know it will. Maybe it will just force me into more self care. That can't be a bad thing since I so often avoid doing that.

 

[Psalm_23]

I Have been reading allot about triggers.I Also get confused easily at times. Like today for example. Why I have outbursts that seem logical at the moment. Then When I am done I'm like what just happened. I could relate to the triggers about being a child and having to take care of sick family members . I was only a child and was left alone with them, responsible for them. But I wasnt trained. I was just expected to do the right thing. I didn't know what the right thing was. But I sure found out when it was all over. The emotionally empty person who put me in that situation was my judge. If they said I did good, then I was relieved. If the sick person got worse it was my fault. But I was not given any explanation.It was just a judgement.


Today I am experiencing not just flashbacks but I am living in a family my husband and 3 almost adult daughter. I experience the same situations I did as a child. My life right now is about being responsible for situations, that I see after the fact. Really are not my responsibility, Also I feel not trained to know how to deal with the people in my life who are sick emotionally. If all goes well and no one dies, or gets hurt I did a good job' so I think. Then comes the I could of done better. I am being judged by myself first. I feel inadequate I wasn't given the correct information. If only I was trained I could of fixed the person. My spiral downward begins. " I need help, I'm stupid, If only I knew more, The situation I was put in was one I could of refused to engage in. But the compulsion this time I will get it right, compelled me to try one more time. After the fact I was left with I failed again. I don't have enough know how to do the job. If only some one would of helped me. Here comes my victim mentality. Then I get stuck again. The compulsion to over react and run a way. Now I run to my bedroom and isolate.


I would get lost in a movie, my thinking I can learn by watching a hallmark movie etc. Only to find myself saying they had help. They weren't alone. Thats why it all worked out for them. They had someone to help. And I don't I could to it right if only. The movie is over, my drama continues.

I was reading yesterday on this forum, about mental defeat. That you get to a point of feeling you have no control or authority to ask for help, or get what your asking for. I have arrived. I hear my self all the time saying nobody listens, nobody cares, I am alone. That's when I have my pity party and the self talk is so negative I don't even want to hear it anymore.

Now that I have found this website. I am not alone. I am choosing to not stay in that isolation.I am reaching out to reality. To people who understand what I am going through. Instead of continuing to defend my behavior with people who just don't get it. I believe God is with me. And he is giving me the strength to not give up. The hope that I will find my true self. And not reject and hate my self because I don't allways get it. When I get a response from you all, I do feel validated. I think to get to know the real me and accept me the way I am. Is what I have been running from. To be connected to others who understand and don't judge me I think is the training i have been longing for. I see this as a new beginning for me. thanks to all of you. I think each one of us have something to offer. We don't know that just maybe one thought or one word spoken could inspire even just one person to not give up. To me that is family. We are all going in the same direction. Wanting to feel like we matter and that were ok just the way we are. And growing and changing isn't as scary as we might think. '

 

[Lionheart]

Oh my, there is so much information to consider. I am still very much confused, but as they say confusion is good, it means you don't know so that you can learn. lol ;)

From what I have recently gathered emotional reasoning figures prominently into panic disorder. When I feel nervous, I assume that something "bad", (read; painful), is about to happen which triggers a panic loop. When I am ill, I make the moral judgement that I must be "bad", (read; flawed), and am therefore being punished and then, I somehow 'deserve' to be ill. Plainly it adds insult to injury and transforms anxiety into panic.

The possible internal triggers could be emotional/physical pain coupled with fear and lack of control...I dunno, I am just thinking out loud here. *laughs nervously Perhaps, if I can stop the moral self-judgement I can also stop the emotional reasoning.

Anyhow, I am really grateful for all of the replies to this thread as emotional reasoning has long been my greatest cognitive distortion with respect to my traumas and it has created a lot of suffering. I will continue to read and allow the new info to sink in, thanks once again!!!

Lion

 

[Abstract]

I have to admit I had not heard of emotional reasoning or internal trigger. So thanks to Lionheart and Strongernow.

Emotional reasoning makes total sense to me as a cognitive distortion and I can see why it fuels anxiety, panic attack and despair. I feel therefore I am.

For example, feeling sad, frustrated, lonely, abandoned, angry, anxiety, vulnerability, feeling out of control, etc etc etc (although normal feelings), if those feelings were pronounced/felt during the trauma, people with PTSD will experience them after the trauma and they will trigger the trauma.

I have wondered about this a lot. I even did a thread on it about 8 months ago. I struggle to figure what is going on for me still as the idea of trauma being relevant to me is still fairly new. It feels like that so much at times. I realise that sometimes fight and flight can be very powerful, the stress cup fills and then there are PTSD symptom consequence but sometimes it is instant. It seems to me that if it is sudden, immediate and very, very intense that it could be an internal trigger. If it builds over a few seconds after starting by being in sudden intense fight and flight then it is probably emotional reasoning or cascading thoughts.

Cascading thoughts are a pain. Thoughts create strong emotional reactions and even physical consequences such as messing with our serotonin. We start off with a feeling whether it be physical or emotion - we then have a thought, judgement, memory about the feeling and these thoughts create new, more intense emotions - in response to those new emotions and thoughts, memories we again respond with thoughts, judgements, memories which create another increase in emotional pain and new emotions - and so it goes on cascading until we go from the simple original feeling (emotional or physical) to the terrible place at the end which usually comes with terrible shame, guilt and despair amongst other things.

It links in a tiny bit with what Eleanor said. We have the original pain and then we have the pain of the pain. A lot of necessary suffering comes from judgements and thoughts we have around the original emotion. Acceptance of the original pain without judgement or further ruminating thoughts stays much more manageable and passes fairly quickly or if it is physical pain, keeps it from terrible added layers of emotional pain and shame being added to it.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

@ Lionheart. Please excuse my directness. I'm equally as hard on myself. I deal with the sad fact I will always hear the vicious degrading words..they.are. just.words.. produced from the mental illness my abusers suffered. It's their illness. Not yours. Don't allow it to destroy your self esteem. Emotional vampires want you to feel their misery. They want to spread their disease.You have to accept the abuse for what it is. It's like posion ivy. If you scratch it ..it spreads.

 

[Abstract]

That's the other thing I was thinking early on. I think perpetrators deposit their self hatred, rage and shame onto us. The trauma is a way of doing that. We also often get used to being blamed for everything and anything and being responsible for others emotions. That can leave us with a version of a God complex. We are so powerful that we cause others to do things or things to happen and it all makes sense because we are "bad". Really those feelings of shame and rage aren't ours to start. We need to hand them back to those that they belong to.

 

[Tinyflame]

Cascading thoughts are a pain. Thoughts create strong emotional reactions and even physical consequences such as messing with our serotonin. We start off with a feeling whether it be physical or emotion - we then have a thought, judgement, memory about the feeling and these thoughts create new, more intense emotions - in response to those new emotions and thoughts, memories we again respond with thoughts, judgements, memories which create another increase in emotional pain and new emotions - and so it goes on cascading until we go from the simple original feeling (emotional or physical) to the terrible place at the end which usually comes with terrible shame, guilt and despair amongst other things.

It links in a tiny bit with what Eleanor said. We have the original pain and then we have the pain of the pain. A lot of necessary suffering comes from judgements and thoughts we have around the original emotion. Acceptance of the original pain without judgement or further ruminating thoughts stays much more manageable and passes fairly quickly or if it is physical pain, keeps it from terrible added layers of emotional pain and shame added to it.

I think this has a huge connection and impact on the present and review of the past, and I totally agree.

For example, if one is able to just say, "that was horrific", looking back, it helps. Similarly, (to not repeat the way of managing before- and the start of ptsd), to be able to identify in the present, "this is horrific/ I feel (x)" . To even recognize and acknowledge it. Sometimes I can only realize how I feel 'now' by what I'm reminded of from the past and can find words to describe how I felt then (eg horror, terror).

Cascading thoughts are a huge problem for me that I am doing better at 'seeing coming' and sometimes stopping or reducing. They start also when I (personally) feel physically sick. They preceed or are a huge cause of 'flight' for me. They are enough to abandon huge things in my life and just flee.