Enabler Unwilling To Let Go Of Me

[Hashi]

freakofnurture, I sympathise with you. I also agree with Nicolette.

I think your "birthing unit" is likely to always think and behave in ways that would be upsetting to you. I understand not wanting to be used by other people for their own untrue fantasies. To me, it feels like they're still twisting my reality and invalidating me.

I think the only thing to do is detach from it, though. They are the way the are, and that's the whole problem. They're not going to change, and if I dwell on it then I'm only fuelling my own fire. Walking away mentally can be as important (and difficult) as walking away physically.

 

[jmni]

I don't think we can speculate as to whether gossiping has taken place based on what freakonurture states. It just seems more like she is trying to get information from her son in law as to when her daughter is coming home. Any parent in her position would probably want to know the same thing.

This "I'll be having a dinner with several courses with my closest friends in her honour." is clearly sarcastic and just mean-hearted. She also said 'How long will it take until I have a normal daughter again? She's insulting her. Her mother is clearly toxic and made it clear that she does not appreciate her. She seems like she is proud of her gossiping skills. She is communicating with her husband and talking about her behind her back so she is still being adversarial and invasive.

Sorry to sound cruel but you still buy into it, while saying you don't want to know, by asking in the first instance

But why shouldn't she. She's trying to make progress and he's talking to her enemy. That would make me paranoid.

I agree that it's an unhealthy cycle like Nicolette said but I feel your husband is the engine that keeps it running more than you. I mean you already know your birthing unit is what she is and you stopped communicating with her. It's creepy that he would actually communicate with her, tell you all the shit she said about you, inform you of her cruelty, and then have the audacity to say he has to email and text with her in order to be civil. It doesn't sound like he has any empathy.

You could act like you don't care to him and see what the response is. But I feel like you are stuck in a difficult game and it doesn't sound like any fun.

 

[Philippa]

This "I'll be having a dinner with several courses with my closest friends in her honour." is clearly sarcastic and just mean-hearted.

I didn't take it that way at all. How do you get mean-hearted and sarcastic from someone saying they want to have a dinner in honor of their child? Maybe I didn't read it right? I do sometimes have trouble recognizing sarcasm online.

She also said 'How long will it take until I have a normal daughter again? She's insulting her.

Yes, that does sound insulting. Perhaps you and I have a different definition of what constitutes gossip? I think of gossiping as a person spreading lies and bitching about someone else behind their back, with the intent of trying to get other people involved in also bitching.

Whilst it could be argued that her insulting comment was bitching with her husband, gossiping usually happens with the goal in mind of turning other people against the subject of the gossip.

I don't think that was the aim here, though her wording was definitely insensitive. Perhaps she was trying to get him to feel sorry for them, which it clearly worked in that case.

Hmmm, I'd call it calculating more than gossiping, but that's just a matter of semantics. She is definitely being controlling.

Her mother is clearly toxic and made it clear that she does not appreciate her.

I'm not disputing that she is unhealthy here.

She seems like she is proud of her gossiping skills. She is communicating with her husband and talking about her behind her back so she is still being adversarial and invasive.

That's an opinion. We weren't there, so it's hard to know the exact tone it was said in and whether she was proud of herself or not. I see her talking to her husband as being co-dependant certainly, and yes it was invasive and disrespectful of her husband to involve him without asking if he wants to be involved or not. She is being selfish more than anything.

 

[Philippa]

It's creepy that he would actually communicate with her, tell you all the shit she said about you, inform you of her cruelty, and then have the audacity to say he has to email and text with her in order to be civil. It doesn't sound like he has any empathy.

I would say he has too much empathy, and feels caught in the middle of the situation. I think he's trying to do the right thing, according to his own beliefs, but it may not be the most supportive way to be towards his wife. If he had no empathy he would have just told her what her mother said, but he didn't want to upset her and knew that it would if he did tell her. That is thinking of her feelings.

Freakofnurture ASKED him to share the information, and she even said that he would have kept it to himself if she hadn't have asked him. I think he's trying to think of their feelings as well as freakofnurtures, but that is coming across as disloyalty to everyone else here.

From what freakofnurture has shared about her husband with me in private conversations, he seems to be the sort of person who tries to see the overview and see from all points of view, not just one, to gain a balanced perspective. He may think too much about what other people are thinking and feeling that it comes across as betrayal, but I think he's just trying to be fair in all honesty, according to what feels right to him.

You could act like you don't care to him and see what the response is. But I feel like you are stuck in a difficult game and it doesn't sound like any fun.

I don't think it's any fun for either of them.

 

[jmni]

Phillipa, I didn't mean to put you on the spot. I have dealt with a lot of catty people lately and it hits close to home to me. I wasn't arguing you.

I concluded that she is the type who'd be fine with gossip.

 

[Philippa]

That's ok, I didn't feel affronted or attacked. We have differing conclusions, but that's ok.

 

[WillThereBeCake]

I could see my mother hosting a party "for me" in my absence, but it wouldn't be to celebrate me in any way. It would be so she could say to her friends, "Look how much of a loving mother I am and my daughter is an ungrateful witch. I am the victim!" - wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[freakofnurture]

So they are literally in the dark as to why you are rejecting them. That would be a hard and scary place for any parent to be in...

I wish I could enjoy that knowledge, but it's all wrong. They aren't poor puppies because their daughter rejects them, they are poor puppies because they nearly abused their daughter to death and now she can't even think about being near them without freaking out.

They don't know what they've done, so it seems like I am punishing them for no reason...

Mine don't even feel like they're being punished. They think they're martyrs, patiently, kindly waiting for their beautiful, beloved daughter to get over her feelings of distrust and pain in order return to their open arms.

I want to puke all over this image, burn it, put the ashes it into the toilet, take a dump on it and flush it all down into the sewers.

Seriously, its like you don't want to let go as you keep inviting it into your life.

I just keep hoping to hear that they've stopped trying. That they lost interest in me. I wish they'd just forget about me. That'd be awesome.

But they keep dragging my dead body along with them, or at least that's what my m*ther's doing. I'm pretty sure my f*ther hasn't wasted a single thought on me without being promptet by my m*ther's lamenting.

If this person is someone you detest then have your husband respect that and he should not get involved. Surely your husband knows how you feel so why would he put anything upon you that would cause you additional hurt?

He doesn't contact them of his own accord, although he recently told me he'd like to send them wellwishes for their birthdays since they always give him a little something for his.

I guess though, I should really ask him to stop answering to texts and emails. He just doesn't think it's the right thing to do. Could you suggest any arguments that can't be brushed off with a "Deal with your own emotions, freak, you're an adult."

You are currently all enabling and feeding off each other in a perpetuating cycle - with your husband being smack bang in the middle of it.

Maybe I could explain to him that he isn't doing my m*ther any favours by encouraging her to think about me? If she knows she won't get any info anyways, maybe she'll be more able to let go?

This "I'll be having a dinner with several courses with my closest friends in her honour." is clearly sarcastic and just mean-hearted.

My m*ther's more the martyr type. I'm sure she was all sending-loving-thoughts and being-greatful-for-knowing while shedding some tears about her lonely fate.

But why shouldn't she. She's trying to make progress and he's talking to her enemy. That would make me paranoid.

I trust my husband and he assured me that he's not giving out any intimate information, just the facts, like "She's still unable to leave the house."

It's creepy that he would actually communicate with her, tell you all the shit she said about you, inform you of her cruelty, and then have the audacity to say he has to email and text with her in order to be civil. It doesn't sound like he has any empathy.

He only told me because I asked him. He said: "You don't want to know." but I insisted. Then he said: "I told you you wouldn't want to know." and I agreed.

He's a bit too empathic, I guess. He gets what I'm about, to a surprising degree, but he sees my m*ther like Philippa suggested: Just a m*m in distress.

I have a feeling that your mother may be trying to manipulate your husband in order to get at you. Your husband stops the communication with him, which is good, but at the same time, him allowing her to contact him gives your mom hope...it fuels her desire to continue at it so to speak. Long/short, he doesn't see it but he's enabling her behavior.

I guess that's what I will tell him, then. He needs some time with things like this so I guess I'll be in for some five or six discussions about it, but that ought to be worth it.

The bigger problem would be to get my m*ther in law to stop chatting with my m*ther on the phone.... -.-

 

[freakofnurture]

"Look how much of a loving mother I am and my daughter is an ungrateful witch. I am the victim!" - wash, rinse, repeat.

My m*m's fluffy. She'd say "I'm trying to respect my daughter and her feelings, and even if she hurts me so, I love her. It's all I can do. To love her until she is ready to return to me and hurt me no more."

She said this to me when we were on a vacation together: "I've always noticed that you are so cold and distant towards me, and it hurts me. But then I realised that I can love you anyways. So I love you*."


----------------
* "Just not enough to have protected you from that man who hates you so violently and lets you know with every word and action that he wishes you'd have been a stillbirth, which in turn makes my 'love' worth shit and my profession feel like a cruel mockery of everything both of us put you through."

 

[Nicolette]

My honest opinion is you are able to rationalise all the reasons why your mother still has an impact on your life, so as long as you do that, nothing will change. Nothing changes the past, you can't control anyone's actions but you can change yours and how to respond.

I don't care what you mum or father has done or does do (in relation to this enabling) - it has nothing to do with you still being interested, finding out and then blaming them. Your husband, in my opinion feeds the situation. It's just toxic and nothing will change until your mindset does in that you have not let go of the past which is demonstrated by your comments above. My step father threatened to kill me as he detested me as I was like my father...... that does not mean I have to sit here and worry about what he is now doing 30 years later. Break free of the cycle if you wish - only you have the power and re-visiting what your mother did or did not do has no bearing on the present nor the future if you choose such.

Is this about your mother or about your inability to process the past and let it go for your own sanity?

 

[Philippa]

I could see my mother hosting a party "for me" in my absence, but it wouldn't be to celebrate me in any way. It would be so she could say to her friends, "Look how much of a loving mother I am and my daughter is an ungrateful witch. I am the victim!" - wash, rinse, repeat.

Yes, I can see this happening with my own mother as well. I'm a bit confused as to why I did not see that straight away when I read freakofnurtures post though? I get the 'ungrateful' thing all the time, or I did when I was around them. Yeah, you bet I'm ungrateful for being treated like shit and like I'm unimportant and won't let them control me. Who would actually be grateful for that?

 

[Philippa]

I wish I could enjoy that knowledge, but it's all wrong. They aren't poor puppies because their daughter rejects them, they are poor puppies because they nearly abused their daughter to death and now she can't even think about being near them without freaking out.

I wasn't trying to say I felt sorry for them, and maybe I was being too empathic as well? I feel like I wasn't much help to you here, and I apologize if it made things worse in any way.

Mine don't even feel like they're being punished. They think they're martyrs, patiently, kindly waiting for their beautiful, beloved daughter to get over her feelings of distrust and pain in order return to their open arms.

I think mine are the same in this regard. I'm sorry I wasn't seeing it clearly yesterday when I read your thread.

I want to puke all over this image, burn it, put the ashes it into the toilet, take a dump on it and flush it all down into the sewers. I just keep hoping to hear that they've stopped trying. That they lost interest in me. I wish they'd just forget about me. That'd be awesome.

I think mine have started to. I can understand why you'd want that.