Experiences With Sociopaths

[Loveneverfails]

My sociopath always said its in your head. Duh, yes it is...

What a truly AWESOME statement! Complete agreement!

 

[anthony]

I agree with you Lizio. As I am typing this, I realize that being new, I'm afraid of disagreeing with Anthony.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with me... I disagreed with a point Lizio wrote and she became defensive over the matter. There is no rule that says to anyone that they have to agree with me or what I write.

Saying that, when you put anything on a forum, you immediately put that information out to be questioned by others. Regardless what you wanted, that is the end result. If you don't want to be questioned, scrutinized or have information debated by others, then do not post on any forum on the www. There is no difference what forum you post on, you are open to be challenged. I challenged, and instead of getting evidence back, I got defensiveness, attitude, aggression, etc... not answers.

Quite honestly Lizio, I doubt your resolve from reading some of your responses, as it seems you have a real issue with anyone who challenges you now. You have gone from one extreme (passiveness) from the abuse you have endured, to the other (aggressiveness), that the moment anyone now challenges you, you attack, not assert.

That is my interpretation of your responses from challenging statements you write.

For anyone who thinks this is some miracle safe place, your space, etc, then you obviously never read the rules and policies of this forum, which explicitly state that is not the case and people need to get that incorrect assumption out of their head ASAP if you wish to communicate online within a global space.

I chose to leave this thread alone, though people just keep going and going, inciting more nonsense.

It is my understanding according to the research I've done that sociopaths do not think they have a problem. They think the rest of the world does. In their mind they alone are the smartest, most powerful and best example of humanity because they view their power(lack of conscience) as a gift. Those who do possess a conscience are viewed by sociopaths as being weak, dumb and unfit.

Your research is partial and incomplete to assign such a label to person, being my challenge to begin with.

I posted a thread earlier today on what constitutes a sociopath by mental health diagnostic assessment, not by a lot of the nonsense the web creates, or misguided individuals perpetuate upon the web, or some of the nonsense being stated on this very site: [DLMURL]https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/what-is-a-sociopath-personality-disorders-general.23710/[/DLMURL]

Because the nonsense is being stated on this site, that is my exact role as the site administrator to keep such nonsense to a minimum, keeping the false information away from members and ensuring they have the facts and relevant current data, not just perpetuated nonsense members incite for personal reasons to attack abusers or such. Please read the above link which is factual based on mental health diagnostic assessment guide and covers both the DSM and ICD, with new updates to said diagnostic changes with the coming DSM V.

At the end of the day, being married to someone for 20 years, getting divorced, then claiming their a sociopath, is completely misguided, unethical and destructive in every form, unless you are a psychiatrist, being the only qualification who could make said assessment by nothing more than personal contact hours with the person based on their expert analysis.

I know I can't monitor someone and say, "I think they're a sociopath," and I have an indepth knowledge of personality disorders and the assessment of them, but I still am not a psychiatrist who has the qualification and expert experience to make such a diagnosis. My ex-wife is a complete nutjob, she does have something wrong with her, her violent streaks... but I don't diagnose her without expertise in diagnostic medicine. It is wrong, unethical, immoral and just as abusive as being abused in the first place.

 

[trainwreck09]

Well I am very sorry if you disagree with me claiming my ex a sociopath. Maybe I sould use the word abuser that would be more correct. For I am new and i will catch on. Forgive me for using inapropriate terms I'm not quilified to use. May I add I was married 26 years and was ready to leave after the first day. When in an abusive relationship it is hard to leave and the most dangerous time is when you are leaving. That is when you are at more risk for harm. Its a cycle!

 

[Loveneverfails]

I posted a thread earlier today on what constitutes a sociopath by mental health diagnostic assessment, not by a lot of the nonsense the web creates, or misguided individuals perpetuate upon the web, or some of the nonsense being stated on this very site..

The entirety of my research was not stated as I was only offering my opinion, not entering into the debate. I actually did read your article and found it highly informative, as I do many of your posts. I am taking no side in this as I believe all have very clear and valid concerns and opinions and I do hope I stated that as directly as possible.

I will say this however, that although I agree with you that the term is used in error often enough, I do believe(and perhaps I'm wrong) that this forum is being used for support and not just information. Part of that support has to be a compassionate 'ear' or the victim will never feel safe enough to express themselves. With the deepest respect, and please understand that I am not saying this defensively, I truly do appreciate you, your wealth of knowledge and all the countless hours of work you've put into this forum, but I do believe there is a time to correct someone and a time to simply listen.

Now, it isn't my wish to argue and so I will refrain from posting to this thread again, but I do hear and appreciate your standpoint. I simply do not fully agree.

 

[mamachick]

Broken, I am glad that you are recognizing that your fear of speaking up is from your history and not a result of this forum. I know when I read something that does not sound right, I have a need to respond with the information that I have and share my opinion. Im glad to say that I have always felt safe doing so and never been banned or even warned. This leads me to consider things I do not already know or further information.

On this topic, I can see all sides-as I have said that I am quite sure I had a bf with anti-social personality disorder. However, that is just my opinion. It is not a fact- as I am not certain he has been diagnosed. Again, I think we want to find a label to describe the behavior. However, anti social personality disorder is not so much about the behavior but more about the morals. Not only is lengthy interviews necessary for diagnosis, generally a test such as MMPI is used as well for all personality disorders.

When I was in training, a professor had a gift wrapped box that he passed around for a few minutes. We could pick it up, feel how heavy, shake it, see if it rattled or rolled or thumpted, etc. Then he said he wanted us to each guess what was in it. Each person took a guess. When we were done-we asked him if anyone guessed right. He said he didnt know. He did not put the items in the box and wrap it and he did not know what is in the box. Then he said, when a client comes to you, you do not know what is in their head. You must keep an open mind before jumping to conclusions. I have always found this to be very accurate. We do need to think outside the box.

When we end relationships with partners, we really want to give their behavior a name. I like how Anthony stated it about his ex-she has something wrong with her (nutjob) sounds like a good term. I do think it is an important point that not only can we not diagnose ourselves, we cannot diagnose those close to us-regardless of our credentials and ability to diagnose. We are too invested with partners, children, siblings, etc.

I did a lot of work with domestic violence victims and much was with womens groups. It was often that women would want to talk more about the abuser than their own stuff. The group purpose is not to diagnose or label the abuser. We cannot change someone who is not here. We cannot discover why they do what they do. After refocusing group members, I began keeping a gift wrapped box for a reminder. If our focus is on the abuser, we are not giving ourselves the attention we need to make the changes necessary for healing.

I am not meaning to offend anyone, and see how we identify characteristics of anti social pd. I also can see how misinformation is (in the long run) not useful for healing and recovery.

 

[mamachick]

Well I am very sorry if you disagree with me claiming my ex a sociopath. Maybe I sould use the word abuser that would be more correct. For I am new and i will catch on. Forgive me for using inapropriate terms I'm not quilified to use. May I add I was married 26 years and was ready to leave after the first day. When in an abusive relationship it is hard to leave and the most dangerous time is when you are leaving. That is when you are at more risk for harm. Its a cycle!

There are many physically abusive men and many have not personality disorder at all. Often it is a behavior they learned in their family of origin. Many of them hated what they saw growing up and vowed they would never treat their family/partner that way. In an attempt to not be abusive, they try to control the situation so that they will be one big happy family. They develop these expectations such as "I will be a good husband and my wife will be happy and loving all the time" or "I will be a good dad and do family things and my kids will be appreciative and recognize what a good man I am". It is based in control. The reality is-he comes home and his wife is grumpy after caring for kids and house all day, they get in the car to go to the zoo and kids are in the back fighting and complaining and saying they want to go buy a new x box like their friend.

They cannot control others happiness and are not equipped to cope with that disappointment. Many add alcohol or a drug and matters only get worse. In a desperate effort to be different from the family of origin, they end up just the same. The cycles begin. Many do not have any serious mental health issue.

 

[Broken]

Broken, I am glad that you are recognizing that your fear of speaking up is from your history and not a result of this forum.

Thanks, my ex played a lot mind games with me that realize by healing is triggered but now can be confronted in a healthy way on this board.

I also can see how misinformation is (in the long run) not useful for healing and recovery.

I totally agree. And that is why I question the "experts" not with the intentions of wanting to challenge authority as in a power play, but to protect myself. I used to uncritically take whatever authority figures in my life would say as gospel, because that's how I was raised, with the gospel, in fact in a religious household. The Bible was used to inflict guilt and shame. Then as an adult with Christian counselors they used the Bible again to do the same. It was more important to them to be right than to have, as you said, that open mind.

 

[Icon Nikon]

LoveNeverFails,

Thank you for interjecting your fair, informative, disarming yet assertive, and compassionate post to this thread.

In my professional opinion as a Licensed Social Worker, for anyone to call a heartfelt post/thread "nonsense" is disconcerting to me on every level. Change happens when it is wanted and encouraged, not demanded. In addition, I believe that the mission of this site, though not stated verbatim, is to educate and support PTSD sufferers and supporter alike on a journey of healing and empowerment. And this, in my humble and brain-damaged opinion, requires a delicate balance of the two.

Furthermore, there are no "absolute facts" in the field of psychology, only just a majority consensus based on the current body of knowledge at the time, and we all know how wrong that has been in the past. As proof, I am gay, and have had many "professional" yet unmerited labels attached to me in my lifetime, including those documented in prior versions of the DSM. And no, I do not have all the citations on me, since I have been in the ICU fighting for my life with a brain tumor/brain abscess/CNS paralysis for the past 6.5 months while access to mental healthcare has been denied. However, biases, and sometimes hate, do exist even within the most 'reliable' sources.

I believe it is clear to most on here that Lizio started this thread in the PTSD discussion forum to "ask for other members, who feel (nothing inherently right or wrong) that they have been involved and harmed in one way or another by a sociopath, to share their personal experiences. I also believe that this site has an excellent educational component and threads. However, in this particular situation this thread's focus was purely about support and lived experiences rather than academic debate. Perhaps the wiser and more compassionate way of addressing the subject of 'labels and titles', since "nutjob and jerk" are also not DSM or ICD recognized assessment terms, would have been to start a discussion in the debate section of this forum.

I highly value this forum as it is my only support while here in the hospital. And I surely do not advocate 'agreeing' just for the sake of 'apleasing'. What I DO advocate for, pardon the trite expression, is that in our replies we responsibly reply to the more significant forest (three fragile lives in harms way) and not the less significant single tree (term, title, label).

Respectfully submitted,
Alex
PS-Lizio, I do hope you found what you needed to help guide through this tricky mess with your abusing ex!

 

[Queen Boudica]

Quite honestly Lizio, I doubt your resolve from reading some of your responses, as it seems you have a real issue with anyone who challenges you now. You have gone from one extreme (passiveness) from the abuse you have endured, to the other (aggressiveness), that the moment anyone now challenges you, you attack, not assert.

That is my interpretation of your responses from challenging statements you write.

Exactly. Your interpretation.

I don't agree. You don't know me at all.

I have real issues with ANYONE who challenges me.

Well that to me is complete speculation. You know that do you, you see everyone who challenges me and you see my reaction? Because I reacted to your challenge that means I react to Anyone? Complete and utter rubbish.

I don't see how I have attacked you at all. If you think that I am sorry. Not my intention and I just don't see it.

I actually see what you did as an attack for the reasons I described in a previous post, breaking down everything I wrote to the nth degree, the way you write it is agressive to me. My interpretation. I find your approach very agressive.

Sorry my opinion.

You doubt my resolve. Fine doubt, it, why should that matter to me? - you don't know me at all. Just a way of putting me down. I am very familiar with that.

I have plenty of resolve.

Now just stop attacking me which is what you are doing. Calling me aggressive a mind reader, and doubting my resolve and saying I have real issues with ANYONE who challenges me. What is that? Is that being helpful? No that is agressive as far as I am concerned and totally incorrect.

Your opinion you are entitled to it.

Sorry if what I have written is too agressive for you and attacking you.

 

[Srain]

I agree. How did you or do you deal with that realization. It's one that I am painfully coming to that hurts so much.

These words under your name: "Please don't tell me not to cry." Was this a mantra you had to abide by in your life? I ask, because it was for me. Crying in my environment for abuse was abnormal. If they caused me pain, I was called weak and it would distance people away from me, so I just cried alone, still do.

Broken, I had to go through the mourning process, missing a father I never had and a life I might have had. It was painful but clearing. As far as the ex, it's been a bit of a different process and problem because unlike family, I invited this person into my life and have since had trouble with my sense of safety. I managed to get clear about the physical abuse but gas lighting is another story and my fears of that are generally heightened so it is taking more work in Trauma Therapy.

"Please don't tell me not to cry." is for me. After a lifetime of being ridiculed for it, not just by others but myself, I am allowing myself to cry when I need to cry, trying to get all of it out. If people can't take then they may need to just back away and move on.

It really is okay to cry,
Peace,
Rain

 

[Meadowsweet]

This thread has given me much food for thought. But there are many different points of view. Behind each of them might be personal stories that are deserving of compassion and understanding or acceptance that there are differerent views.

I have a tendency to intellectualise things because logic and factual information helps me feel safe. The negative side of this, is that I use reason to keep my emotions down. There are times when I think it is healthier to give the emotions a voice without worrying if what is said is 'right' or not.

But there comes a point when the emotions have been released, when the thoughts they produced need checking against the facts. That's sensible rationalising and helps to stop the thoughts spiralling into panic. So I think there is a balance, and its good that people can offer that as a choice. Its then up to the reader of the posts to decide whether they need the balance of emotional release or rational thinking at that moment.

For me personally, reading about sociopathic behaviours increases my anxiety incredibly. When I was in an abusive relationship, I did feel some element of control. It was messed up submissive, self-blaming thinking, but submission gives some control. But his motives were more earthly. He needed reassurance that I wouldn't leave and that he was the big strong man.

But the second mans thinking processes evolved much more around the universe and he behaved in a god-like way watching over me as a poor weak soul. If you act submissive, it encourages the 'saviour' type thinking, but if you act independent, then you become the enemy or devil. So theres no way of having any control over the situation. And that scares me a great deal.

So at the moment, I get something out looking intellectually at it. If I look at it in terms of his illness, then I can console my fears with the fact that he can get help from a psychiatrist and I will be safe. If I look at it as his personality, I'm scared.