Feeling guilty, shameful, horrible, disgusting etc. over things you had to do to survive

[littleoc]

think it is something I been whining about since I came here.)

It's okay, I think we all understand

 

[Rose White]

I struggle with this SO MUCH! Even with just me from last year! Me when I first met my T! I want to loathe every past incarnation of myself that was not as aware as my present self! Bad bad habit! Self compassion! Need it!

 

[littleoc]

@Still Standing Dont forget that you were doing what you could, with the resources you had. If you got a million dollars, you couldn’t use it to get your past self a safe house. If you learned karate today, you wouldn’t be able to retroactively use it to protect yourself

:hug:

 

[Freida]

I did what I had to to survive.
I did what I had to to survive.
I did what I had to to survive.

My mantra......(well - most of the time when the moon is full and the planets align correctly!)

 

[mumstheword]

I did what I had to to survive.
I did what I had to to survive.
I did what I had to to survive.

My man...

Indeed you did and I'm so glad you are still here! We are all incredibly enriched by your presence @Freida . I hate that you had to endure all that, but blessed that you survived it!

 

[Friday]

I would have died if I didn't do all of that,

Wouldn’t it be nice if doing the right thing ALSO felt good?

I still feel like I chose to do it, or like I'm responsible for doing those things instead of something else.

I’ve learned that as long as I follow my own code I’ve very few regrets. It’s when I break my code of ethics/honor/morality/self regardless of the outcome that I hate myself, feel disgusted, shattered, ashamed, & vile.

I’m not talking about making mistakes, or learning. That’s a different class of things. Making mistakes means I’m still adhering to my own law, I’ve just f*cked up, is all.

I am talking about deliberately choosing to do something that goes against everything I believe in. I’m the only one who can make that choice, or those choices, and the responsibility for that lies on my own shoulders, alone. It’s doesnt matter at all if the situation is my fault or not. That’s another entirely different thing. ;)

Very rarely, what needs to happen is a paradigm shift / alteration of my code.

Correction. That needed to happen one whole helluva lot when I was younger. When I used other people’s morality (what I’d been taught was right), or formed my own not from experience, but from imagination. (What I imagined I would do in a situation I’d never been in. Like “I would die before XYZ” or “When I grow up...” or “When I’m a parent...” or “If someone ever cheated on me...” ) Come to find what we think we would do, and what we actually do // what we think an experience would be like, and what it’s actually like are almost always very different things. <<< A lot of this business I class as “learning”. Learning can be painful as hell, and the consequences brutal. I’m not minimizing that one iota. It’s only in comparison that it pales.

So... for me... I have to break down where the guilt/shame/disgust is coming from. When it only comes from one place, it’s relatively easy to sort. When it comes from multiple places? It doesn’t matter how many times I deal with only one aspect of it. Whether it’s comig from 2 places or 20 places, if I only deal with one place? Well no shit, it’s still there. This is one of the places where CBT / Cognitive Distortions / Core Beliefs come in really f*cking handy. NOT because what I’m thinking is always wrong if I feel badly. But because it helps me identify the places where things are coming from. Something -like an assault- not being my fault? Only removes one possible vector. Not all of them.

 

[Freida]

It’s when I break my code of ethics/honor/morality/self regardless of the outcome that I hate myself, feel disgusted, shattered, ashamed, & vile.

I am talking about deliberately choosing to do something that goes against everything I believe in. I’m the only one who can make that choice, or those choices, and the responsibility for that lies on my own shoulders, alone. It’s doesnt matter at all if the situation is my fault or not. That’s another entirely different thing. ;)

This is what I struggle with. I did things that violated my own codes of morality and ethics and the military code of honor. It always comes back to that and I just don't know how to come to terms with it. I wanted to live - so I CHOSE to do what was required.
I didn't harm anyone else (well - not then) but that is the only reason I can even look at myself in the mirror. Because once you have given in and violated everything thing you think you stand for, everything you think of as ethical, just to live, how do you get past it? How do you make it better? How do you learn to live with it? How do you forgive yourself?

 

[Friday]

@Freida ... That, right there, is the million dollar question. I don’t think there’s an easy answer. Not even sure there IS an answer. Leastwise, I’ve never met anyone with one. (All ears, though, always if someone has a solution :D.) And I’ve spent a fair bit of time amongst those who are used to making the hard calls, and hard decisions. That seems to be a mainstay. This? Will hurt later. This? Will have consequences. This? Will not be easy to live with. And I’m still making this choice. Not because I want to. Not because I agree with it. Not because it won’t shred me or gut me. But because someone has to. Okay. This is my call. I hate it, but I’m making it.

Better of two evils? Is still evil. There’s no relief or surcease in that. Nor in limited choices. Nor in doing the best I could with what I had at the time. I know myself very well at this point in time. I will go against everything I believe in and hold dear, if I decide the situation calls for it. Or I can’t think of another way. Have before. Probably will, again.

There are points I can ease, and points I can be aware of.

Ease? Includes things like being around people who understand hard choices and the effects of making them. It doesn’t lift the weight, but it makes it easier to carry it. Sympatico. And it also drops the likelihood of being asked to make more hard decisions as close to nil as possible. ;) Because none of us want to be in that position, or to put others in that position, so great lengths are gone to to avoid it. That’s understood, and accepted, and also periodically ignored for your own good :sneaky: (Nope! Today you’re doin this. // You have to make new memories sometime. You’re coming. You can fight it, but that just means you’ll be riding in the trunk.) Normal people seem to play fast and loose, both with other’s lives and their own opinions. They’ve never done it, so they are completely solid in what “should” be done, meanwhile blithely stick others in hard places without a second thought. f*ck that noise.

Aware of are things like - when I can’t protect my own, protecting others is intollerable. It doesn’t make things better, it just rubs salt in the wound. (This is very possibly a character flaw of mine. I have to take care of mine, first and foremost. Until that’s accomplished, there is no secondary. Even when that shoots me in the foot // the smart play would be to do for others what I can’t do for myself. Shrug. Is what it is. I’m aware of it, so I can work around it.) ...or... that I avoid commitment & connection because I don’t want to be relied on, don’t want to be trusted, don’t want to have to do what needs doing if/when that time comes. Or that i’m A massive control freak, and I like being at fault because it gives me illusion of control // if it’s my fault? Then I can fix it. Which ain’t always true, even when something is squarely my fault, much less when I’m appropriating blame. I have to remind myself fairly frequently - Never accept the blame for evils others do. // which I usually have to dovetail with - listening to your instincts is different from being a slave to them <<< When I know my own patterns with shit, I can circumvent them at worst, & cut their balls off if necessary. I’ve got the home field advantage, because no one knows me better than me.

But at the end of the day my best thinking on the subject is probably found here >>> When Guilt & Shame Is Well Earned

- When I've been super lucky I've gotten the chance to learn from what I've f*cked up. To be presented with the same scenario, different time & place, and choose differently. It doesn't erase the guilt of the past, doesn't change it, but it helps to balance it. To square it some.

- When I'm not that lucky, it's just something I've learned to wear. Snort. Often times badly, but hey. This is the one that chafes the hardest in the onslaught if the 'not your fault' business. Yes. Actually. Some things are my fault. And there is jack all I can do about it. <<< That I know of, in any event.

- When I'm unlucky, not only do I really f*cking hate & despise what I did, but I would do it again.

***

I know this is long. And most of it is caveat. To forestall the "It isn't your fault' business. Yes. Actually. Some shit is my fault. Isn't a question I'd ask, usually, my fault = my responsibility. But I figured law of averages means I'm probably not the only person with well earned guilt, shame, regret. And maybe someone has a better answer to how you deal with that, than mine; You just do. Own it, learn from it, and if you're f*cking lucky as hell maybe you'll get a chance to do differently someday.

 

[Freida]

@Friday Thank you. I've bookmarked this because I think I need to keep reading it. My guru used to tell me "you made the least worst decision" over and over. When there is no good option you choose the least worst. Never least best. Because least best implies you stood a chance.

So much to think on.....

 

[lovak]

I have some things I am extremely disgusted about, about myself. Not ready to talk about those things just yet, I've never told anyone.

I did however, just the day before yesterday, confess something to my husband. I met my husband in group therapy years ago. We weren't romantically involved at the time of this event. But I was there for about a month and wanted to share about my first sexual assault, because it was a 'one-timer' and far less traumatic than the second one. I'd never told anyone about anything like that before. I'm ashamed now to admit that I exaggerated the event. I told them it was vaginal rape, while it was oral rape. I told them I put up a fight, while actually I just froze and didn't do anything, and then just gave in and participated for it to be over. I thought this meant it wasn't bad enough to 'count'. That maybe they would say it was my own fault for not fighting and even participating. Maybe because at the time I was convinced it was my own fault.

I know differently now, but for all these years it has bothered me so much that my husband had never learned the truth about it. He doesn't ask about my experiences and I don't tell much, unless I absolutely have to get it off my mind. He's seen too many of my flashbacks and the horror I'm in when they occur. It causes him too much pain to know.

But it was such a burden, this big secret between us that he didn't know about. The day before yesterday I was in full breakdown mode numbing myself with alcohol and when he came home from work I started crying. Suddenly I realized it was ok to tell him. He wouldn't judge me for it, because he loves me. So I told him, and he wasn't angry. Ofcourse he wasn't. But it took me eight years to forgive myself for not fighting, to admit to myself it was bad, it was wrong.

That other stuff is way worse and way bigger and I still can't talk about it.

 

[Freida]

He wouldn't judge me for it, because he loves me.

I am so happy you were able to tell him! You know that you are not at fault, but being able to say that to someone and have them reinforce it? That's huge!