Fight Or Flight Response

[JimmyJames902]

Hey Wattle:

When I'm feeling freightened (which is alot of the time lately), I hide at home too, avoiding and isolating. My apartment is my "safe place;" no one can hurt me, attack me, etc. About half the time, I even have a problem answering the phone. I let the answering machine take the message, then I play back the message, and if its someone whom I feel is safe, I'll call them back. I'm embarrased to admit that when I'm in full-blown freak-out mode, I have let the answering machine pick-up all my calls for a week, and if I'm still in freak-out mode by weeks end, I will simply hit the "erase" button and lose as many as thirty messages.

Your description of the freeze response is right on the mark. It is a very strange feeling when you can't move, can't speak, can't turn away; it truly is a "freeze." When the incident has passed, I often think about what I would have liked to have said, and on occasion I'll have an imaginary conversation with the person who threatened me. I try to remember what I said, so that I might be able to use those words the next time it happens for real. But when the next confrontation/threat actually occurs, I can't remember the words.

My guess is that the "freeze" response is a sub-set of the "flight" response. Or at least closely related. I keep telling myself that when I absorb an unwarranted attack I'm not a coward, I'm just not well. But most men are cuturally conditioned to believe that showing fear is the equivalent of cowardice. Maybe that's why I identify with the Cowardly Lion in the Wizard of Oz...

What makes the Hottentot so Hot ??
What puts the Ape in Apricot ??
Whadda they got that I ain't got ??

Courage (you can say that again).

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear Jimmy,

I've always understood it to be, when we feel both a "flight" and a "fight" response at the SAME time, (psychologically) we freeze.

So.. take heart: you have more courage than you know... and self-control.

But I do understand where you're coming from (totally).

 

[JimmyJames902]

Hi Junebug:

An interesting explanation, much appreciated. I think I'll have to reflect on this a bit more, because I don't have an immediate intuitive sense that the dynamic you describe is what occurs for me. And thank you for your kind words of support re courage and self-control.

 

[blueangel371115]

I was a fleer when I was younger. Then I became a fighter. Unresolved anger and frustation is a big thing I'm dealing with right now. When I feel helpless or that the situation is out of my control I lash out violently. I got into a physical altercation with my best friend once. But, bless his heart, he took me in his arms and let me cry.

 

[billie]

Okay, I am forcing myself to reply to this as so far I have not opened up to this forum I feel like I am ready to disclose some events. I will only talk about after I am 14 as I am not ready for earlier yet. At 14 (transient streety), my freind overdosed, Flight responce I left him to die. 15/16, Freind of mine was being attacked flight ressponce I disosciated could not move. 15 my freinds were being attcked again, this time something changed I fought. Then there was a whole bunch of other stuff but recently I was in an armed hold up, Fight responcene ran towards the person with the firearm. I now have morphed into complete fight responce. Flight or fight to me is purly mechanical.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

It's an automatic response. My understanding is the hypothalamus activates the fight or flight response. The amygdala decodes emotions;determines possible threats and stores fear memories. The amygdala overrides the normal process. That's why you have no control of your response. It's a primal response.

 

[novemberDark]

As you said Survivor2Thriver: "I would say that we all enter our 'fight' "or 'flight' responses with one thing in mind and that is to stay safe and to survive."

Perhaps add 'to protect' offspring ?.

My opinion, if this basic function gets cross wired somehow, it could have the opposite effect, to the point that sets a man/woman upon himself/ herself.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

Protect offspring? You'd think..

I've had family members attack me...

Personally,I've fought froze fled and fainted in the same battle. Other battles I froze. Sometimes I fought. Sometimes I would flee. Any combo. Whatever worked. Depends on the level of fear and chances of survival. Fight or flight is a built in security system. It's my understanding your mind processes it so quickly it causes you to act before you have a chance think. Hence automatic. Impressive! Perhaps,suicide is an extreme form of flight. Appears it would require thought tho. I don't know.

 

[Mercy]

There was a study in Great Britian last year using PET scans. They showed videos to a group of people with PTSD and people without PTSD. A few days later, the people were shown clips from the videos. Those with PTSD showed the amydigala light up instantly. It took 45 to 60 seconds for their forebrains to light up. The control group had their forebrain active in the present.

This means that our fight/ flight/ freeze responses have already been biochemically activated by the brain without any concious thought from us. For example, I had serious surgery to stabilize my broken ankle bones with metal plates and screws. In that surgery all the nerve tissue must be scrapped off the bone first. It leave patients in terrible pain. I came back to my room post surgery and heavily sedated, unable to even open my eyes with no awareness. The survival brain heard the command, "Hit the Deck! " I stood up in bed needles and cast and all. Then, I dove as far and flat as I could go. I needed a re-xray on the ankle and e-ray of my right wrist which I broke 'following orders." The flight 'button' had been pushed completely outside my consciosness. The saftey system acted immediately taking over before my rational brain could have heard anything. The control group showed little to no activity in the amydigla and very active forebrains. Cortisol, adrenalin and other biological chemicals are all ready in a cascade by the time we are aware of it. It was strange because I thought that serious sedation would prevent this behavior. Had I been awake, I would have known that it was a war movie on television. Nope, I was wrong about that..

 

[The Albatross]

I'm a fight. I have not had circumstances as dire as some members but when cornered and resistance/infringing on my personhood is present will elect to fight or evade. Most often I am looking to evade.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

The flight 'button' had been pushed completely outside my consciosness. The saftey system acted immediately taking over before my rational brain could have heard anything.

Yikes on your surgery. Feel better!

That's how it functions even if you're conscious. It's in action before it reaches your conscious thought. It suggests to me your subconscious has a great will to live. Flight or fight's design is about survival. Our 6th sense. You have a very strong trigger.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

IMO The theory trauma can damage the amygdala is unreasonable. It's doing what its designed to do. Sustain life. Are trauma survivors more attuned to danger? Yes. As they should be!

I have a difficult time in crowds. Spidy senses are off the charts. I'm aware of why. That's the key. Therefore,my/our conscious mind can accordingly calm our nerves. It all works together. Understanding your triggers is everything. If I'm in a smaller crowd and can't determine the trigger. You can bet I'm looking for the pedophile/asshole in the bunch. Trust your instincts.