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Hallucinations that are not about your trauma

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@barefoot Thank you! Mighty interesting post. Did you learn anything new at the sleep clinic?

I've actually spend quite a lot of time reading up on non-REM parasomnias several months ago, after I had yet another sleep terror. Super fascinating topic.

Like yours, both my hallucinations and night terror happen within the first hour of falling asleep, so pretty spot-on when the transition into Phase 3 is supposed to occur. I think my night terrors are just a step up from my hallucinations, as the night terrors are still usually accompanied by visual images.

An overnight sleep study didn't find any abnormalities. No sleep apnea. Mild intermittent leg movement. No unusual arousal index (something like 7.xxx/hr)

I agree with you that probably Ts and sleep docs come from different angles, but the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. The neurologist explains what happens and tons of people have non-REM parasomnias (sleep paralysis is kinda common, for example, so is sleep talking), but some varieties (like sleep walking and night terrors) are rarer, at least in adults. And Ts can help explain the underlaying triggers. Because tons of people are overworked and stressed and don't get neither.

(ETA: I wonder if there's a connection, i.e. people who are more susceptible to mental disorders - cue: not everyone experiencing trauma gets PTSD - are more susceptible to other weird unusual stuff going on with the bain, like parasomnias, and vice versa)

Come to think of it, I recently discovered my mom talks in her sleep. But I also do suspect some (untreated) mental stuff going on with her. Hmmmmmmm.

I might give the melatonin a try. My night terrors and hallucinations are on the rarer side (night terror every several months, hallucinations have become kind of a weekly thing), but at least the hallucinations have seemed to increase in frequency

@Gs172003 No signs of Narcolepsy for me :)
 
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Didn’t learn anything new today, but it turned out to be a group course whereas I was expecting a 1:1 appointment. Most of the focus was on doing breathing techniques, visualisations and body scans.

I think I now have an opportunity to book in for a 1:1 will her for more tailored support so I think I’ll do that.

I seem to remember her saying in my initial 1:1 assessment last year that there is a correlation between ptsd and night terrors, so I would like to ask her about that.

Not sure when that appointment will be but I’ll post back here if anything new/interesting comes up there.

I agree that I don’t think it’s about who’s right or wrong - the therapist or the neurologist. I think the answer is probably that both have relevant approaches/things to say about it and both can potentially help.
 
Just a thought: is your sleep environment close to pitch black when you have these hallucinations?

Plenty of patients in the trauma unit I go to use a multitude of different night lights so that the room isn't pitch black when they wake up. Pick your preferred soft light colour to fall asleep with and maybe that will help?

Other things that I've seen people use in the same unit for sleep issues are weighted blankets (which you're all over), white noise machines, humidifier machines, scent-spreading stuff...some of the rooms end up so decked out that they kinda freak me out.

Point is maybe trial and error with things you can add/remove to your sleep environment to make it feel safer, but also so that you wake to soft light (even potentially soft white noise)?
 
It indeed tends to be worse when I'm sleeping in pitch black rooms (yay sleep hygiene recommendations :hilarious::D ) We have a ton of night lights throughout the house/hallway (aka leaking over into the bedroom because sleeping with door open); still experimenting for the bedroom itself, which nightlight/color is best for both me (not too dark) and hubby (not too bright). Currently having a red one that seems to be working...more or less. (color changing one was too flurry for both of us)

Though I did have another hallucination just a couple days ago. Despite night light next to me. And new weighted blanket. And kitty cat on my legs. (because I do think co-sleeping with my cats is helpful, too, generally. Very calming)

Used a humidifier for quite a while, but the noise actually keeps waking me up. Scent-sprading stuff...used with the humidifier until learning that most of the essential oils used for those...toxic for my cats.

White noise machines/apps let hubby sleep significantly worse. I'm looking into ear buds that play back noise...been toying with that idea for quite a while, but they're not cheap and I recently discovered they've been discontinued. Also, really uncomfortable with the general idea of ear buds at night ....hypervigilance issue (I think I mentioned it in my diary :) )

I've already tried a shit ton of different stuff and recommendations to improve my sleep quality over time. Been trial and erroring for what feels like forever :) (see, I'm actually really trying to change things, not just resignation and resistance ;) )

But yes, the waking up to soft light, both for the hallucination stuff and the night terrors - majorly important. Easier for mind-vision connection to adjust and see that nothing is there.

Seriously valuing and welcoming any thoughts and ideas :)

(Coming to think about it, I've been sleeping with the TV/DVD playing for actual years in high school. Which provides both light and noise. Interesting)

ETA: I don't actually sleep in total quietness, I have distant sorta white noise from my fish tank's filter and the cat drink fountain
 
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It indeed tends to be worse when I'm sleeping in pitch black rooms (
Any chance you’re seeing the veins in your eyes? And, like suddenly feeling 8 little tiny points moving on your skin, the brain is filling in the gap with “spider” instead of grasshopper/ balled up piece of thread (or veins)?

To test... get a penlight, close your eyes, and rub the light back and forth across your eyelid as quickly as possible... and relax. Takes a few seconds rhe first time to get that combo down. But a glowing map of veins will magically appear.

technically we always “see” those veins, but our brain filters them out. Unless we trick our brains into paying attention to them by removing the light / stimulus of vision & applying either flashing light or pressure. (Light is safer.) Or we’re in a dark space and our brains are actively trying to see anything. Whether the room is dark, or eyes are closed, there’s nothing to see, so it sees what can be seen. (Or makes shit up, like the swirling galaxies of pixels)

If the glowing map looks suspsoviois or familiar? Deliberately looking at it with a penlight before bed is similar to watching the grasshopper walk across your hand with its 2 little antennas & 6 legs, or seeing the balled up thread on your foot hanging down from your trousers. We recognize & dismiss & don’t jump out of our skin. Because we know what it is, we know what it isn’t.
 
Sorry, totally forgot to get back to you :oops:

Any chance you’re seeing the veins in your eyes?

I kept thinking about this. I don't think that's the case. I'm pretty sure I have my eyes open when I "see" those things. I also see bedding etc.

Also, usually no tactile hallucinations involved. It's not spiders on my skin (though I did have one hallucination where I was thinking BIG spidey was crawling over the bed a couple years ago), it's really usually more the hovering kind.

Very close to my face kind.

"Don't stand behind me" kind.

Fun fact: When I was traveling in a region where they don't have hand-sized spiders a couple months ago, the spider hallucination become a fly hallucination. Same reaction. Another fun fact: The hand-sized spiders where I live don't net. They wouldn't hover.

Keep wondering if my hair/bangs could trigger it?

Though I did have other more trauma-related hallucinations a couple of times over the decades. I also sometimes, rarely, have the "my arm just died" sensation - does that one know anyone? Not PTSD-related, just babbling, now, being curious. My brain certainly has some issues connecting with reality during night-time :laugh:

Hmmmm.

If it wasn't so physically exhausting and personal, this is actually a super interesting topic, parasomnias and such, I mean :laugh: The scientist in me certainly is intrigued
 
So, I keep having those hallucinations of spiders (or similar, sometimes only the net) dangling right above my head. I would already be asleep, but somehow wake up and "see" those things next to or above me. I don't have Arachnophobia, but I don't particularly like them, either, and can't stand spiders in my immediate proximity. So I would jerk up/away, fumble to get my phone (flashlight) or otherwise turn on the light on the night stand, to convince myself that there is nothing there.

I obviously have no trauma involving spiders. Those aren't flashbacks. Also no dreams involved.

Since I'm asleep, hard to deploy any grounding mechanisms and I essentially wake up in "flight mode" right away.

Does anyone experience something similar? Doesn't have to be spiders or even visual hallucinations - just hallucinations in general that intrude into your sleep and wake you up.

When I talked with T about it she says it's explainable that those hallucinations manifest in spiders since spiders (like snakes) are an evolutionarily hardwired fear for (most) humans. But dang, it's becoming annoying, if not exhausting.

These are called hypnagogic hallucinations. Essentially you enter REM before your body turns off. Like reverse sleep paralysis. They can be very similar to flashbacks, but like dreams the images rarely have meaning. The mind might take texture of a wall and turn it into a spider. I have personally had these many times over the years. Such as the apocalypse happening, when it was actually just a plane flying overhead. Mice and spiders on the wall. Sometimes they are flashbacks of when my house caught fire. Sometimes I see machines overhead about to attack me.

They usually happen within an hour of falling asleep, while being sleep deprived, and something "interrupting" the process like a noise or someone talking to you. I have also found its linked to procedural memory, and the tetris effect.
 
Very interesting thread...
I tend to have sleep paralysis in the morning, before I have to get up and usually only when I lie on my back.
Last night though, I had something like that before falling asleep and it was worse than before. I had already troubles falling asleep because I was having anxiety attacks, then my boyfriend came to bed and I thought I was still fully awake, but suddenly I heard incredibly loud noise like from a jackhammer. It was so loud, I thought my head was about to burst but at the same time I knew for certain that it was only in my head. I thought I was having a psychosis and got a panic attack, started hyperventilating and thought I was suffocating, but I couldn't move. My boyfriend heard my breathing and tried to calm me down and I was fully aware of that, so I was not asleep, but still unable to move. At some point it occured to me that it was probably just sleep paralysis, so I calmed down. But it was scarier than anything I've had so far
 
Oh my gosh yes to all of this and my goodness its seriously comforting that I'm not alone in this!

I've literally had spider hallucinations as well! I wake up screaming, not knowing why, and then I just see them everywhere in my bed and on me. And in the same way, they have nothing to do with my traumatic experiences but somehow I know it's all connected. I also have a recurring hallucination of a man standing in the doorway. I know it gets worse when I'm particularly stressed or thinking about triggers in the evening. I also frequently wake up screaming, with or without hallucination. Sometimes it happens for no apparent reason at all.

Its always frustrated me that these hallucinations really have no connection at all to my trauma, and yet always throw me into an emotional loop. It makes sense viewing it in the flight or fight context, but I still always find it embarrassing and frustrating.

To be fair, I've always had sleep issues (even prior to the bulk of my truama). I sleep walked as a child, Ive always talked in my sleep, and I wet the bed consistently until I was 16. (that last part might be genetic?)

Now days, I also get the arm falling asleep thing, 2-3 times per night. It wakes me up and I have to hold my hand level with my heart until it stops ?

Whew. Maybe I should see a sleep specialist.
 
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