Holy Crap There Are Some Bad Therapists Out There

[Leighlee87]

I need to vent. Majorly.

So, my husband and I met with a marriage counselor a few years ago. I didn't feel like she did a whole lot for us, but whatever, things improved as life circumstances improved. It was shortly after I left marriage counseling that I began with the therapist I am seeing now. She is amazing. She has years of experience treating trauma and also works a lot with eating disordered clients. So, she has been an excellent fit.

More recently, I pushed my husband to go see someone for a bit because I know that my ptsd (which developed 3 years ago) has put added pressure on our family, and he seemed to be struggling a bit. So, he decided to go see the same person we saw for marriage counseling. He seems to like her.

Last session, I finally opened up for the first time about some of the issues going on in my marriage. Mainly that there are some major boundary issues when it comes to touch and anything sexual. Basically, my husband doesn't get what he needs in terms of touch or intimacy so he has learned that if he continually gropes me even though I'm begging him not to, I'll eventually relent and have sex just so that he will stop touching me. Or, he'll do things like touch me when I'm sleeping. With a history of abuse behind me, this ends up being pretty traumatic. So, my therapist asked if I would go with my husband to his therapist and discuss this because she needed to be aware of what was happening. She basically said I was repeatedly being raped and only retraumatizing myself each time it happened. I've never really put the 'r' word with his behavior, but I guess it might be considered that. Either way, it's completely destroyed our relationship.

Okay, so I work up the nerve to go, and rehearse what I want to say--how the dynamics between us work, the issue with him craving touch (his love language) and my fear of it, and the serious downward spiral it has created, and that he needs to stop, and even then I don't know how to fix what has been damaged. I hardly got into talking about it, and she quickly changed directions asking that we discuss something else, and that this would be better dealt with by taking my husband to meet with my therapist. Early in the discussion when I was explaining that when I back away from him he sees it as rejection and in response will usually grab me and refuse to let me go. Her response was "because he isn't getting anything he needs." Fast-forward in the conversation, and she states that the reason he is always grabbing at my body is because he's adhd and impulsive, then she insisted on changing topics.

It left me feeling like the problem was mine. Because I have a messed up background, because I have issues with touch. That if I were normal, then I wouldn't have any problems with what my husband does. That if I could meet his needs none of this would be happening in the first place. So, I should take him to see my therapist, so that she can help us figure out how to interact without being triggered, and he can better understand why my responses are the way they are and how to help. What isn't happening, is that he isn't being counseled on the fact that his behavior crosses major lines whether he is married to me or anyone else. He needs to be seeing his counselor about this, not mine.

I'm so angry. I walked away feeling like everything that was happening was my fault. She literally backed him the entire time, and when things began to head in an uncomfortable direction she decided we needed to talk about something else.

 

[Deleted member 38644]

This is the exact reason why I'm afraid of counselors today. Some I feel like just want to be in your business instead of helping. after hearing so much of your life they become annoyed and throw you off instead of doing what their license says. You have to spend tons of dollars to find a therapist and it's difficult. It just make trust more difficult.

 

[Arebas]

I'm not sure I should be giving any opinion on this cause I honestly have no idea but, is it possible that she was just validating his feelings, since she was HIS therapist in that situation? And her reluctance to talk about it and say that's something you need to talk about with your therapist was her way to say that has to be addressed from a point of view where you need to be the main focus and need to feel safer to express what you really think and feel? I don't really know how couple's therapy works and I assume there's no "his side" and "her side" but maybe in this context she felt she was his therapist first?

Again, I'm clueless, so maybe she was just that bad a therapist.

 

[Nyssa]

I'm going to be blunt.

I don't understand this concept of "needing" to touch someone who does not want to.

Grabbing someone against her will is disrespectful. Doing it all the time is harassment. This is beyond triggering, it's abusive.
I'm so sorry your husband is behaving this way with you.

I hope you will find your way out of this unhealthy situation.

 

[Dana1010]

Did you and your husband discuss this issue you have with physical contact before you married? Did he enter into the marriage on one set of conditions only to find himself now handed a different set?

It's not your fault you were traumatized and it's not your fault touch is triggering. But where I think his therapist is defensible is in the fact that a husband wanting to touch his wife is normal, whereas a wife being triggered and upset by it is not. Yes, it's normal for you, but that is because of PTSD.

So are you the one with the "problem?" I would say yes. Is it your fault you have this problem? No, but wouldn't it be the best thing for both of you if you could work to overcome your triggers?

 

[Leighlee87]

@Arebas

Possibly. I was trying to go about things very cautiously. I didn't label the behavior, just explained the dynamics and that I felt like it was making things worse. I was hoping she would hear, "this is what is going on. I'm not labeling it, I'm not calling it good or bad, it's just happening." I took responsibility for not being open and communicative enough from the beginning. It's the first time we would have ever had a conversation about the negative impact it is having. It's something I felt needed to be brought up, he needed to gain an understanding of, and she needed to be aware of so that she can help him deal with it. All I wanted to do was bring awareness to the situation, where she decided to go with it was up to her. I need to work on my end of things with my therapist especially in the form of healing. But I thought it would be important for him to learn that his behavior is causing the opposite of what he hopes to gain, and that his belief system on this behavior be challenged--that is something I assumed would happen in private discussions between the two of them, not with me there. But the behavior, I don't think, will ever change if he isn't challenged on this. I'm not sure.

 

[watundah]

This type of triangulation can be common when one person has an establsihed relationship w a T and a third person enters the picture. Although you worked w her before, her allegiance is w him. Is a third, unbiased therapist an option?

It is unfortunate he seems to be missing the wooing or romantic part, the dance of intimacy vs grabbing and whining, which is a complete turn off.

Know you are not wrong at all in feeling the way that you do. Healing is multidimensional, including those of sex and relationship. It sounds like your hubby needs a reminder that you need time and sensitivity. Compromise and growth are possible but it will be tough without counseling.

 

[Leighlee87]

@Dana1010 It's always been an issue, but ptsd made it waaayyyy worse. I agree the issue with touch stems from me, and what he wants isn't unreasonable. We've always had issues where, like, I hate being held or hugged facing someone (I can handle being hugged from behind, but facing inwards I feel like I'm suffocating). He's always known this, but done things like hold me down insisting that I will learn to like it. The whole, "while I sleep thing" has been discussed before ptsd without much change in behavior. I think things have just added up until I can't take it anymore. It's not like he starts touching me, I tell him to stop, and he comes back 30 minutes and tries again. It's he starts touching me, I tell him to stop, and he refuses. He continues, I can push him away, try to move his hands, remove myself from the room, nothing helps--he just follows me, and doesn't stop. In his head, if I relent and say yes, I must actually enjoy it. But the opposite is happening.

Him wanting touch, normal. His wife being triggered by touch, not normal. These are things he should be able to do with his wife.
Some of it is him not understanding ptsd, or that I won't "learn to like it". But regardless of anything, being told no, and doing it anyways is wrong, and I think that it is something that would damage any relationship over time. If you asked your husband not to touch you in your sleep, and you wake up being violated by that person. And it happens multiple times over. That isn't healthy and it isn't okay.

Yeah the dynamics have changed, and I've become much more easily triggered, but certain physical boundaries were being ignored from the beginning of our relationship. I know a lot of this resides with me. I know my response to things isn't normal, and it's part of why I struggled with her response--because I already carry enough guilt in this area.

I most definitely want us both to work on overcoming the triggers. I need to feel safe. I need to know that when I tell him "no" or "stop" it stops. I need him to let go of me when I pull away instead of grabbing me and holding me there. I want a healthy relationship where both of our needs are being met, and I can enjoy a physical relationship without feeling triggered by it. That's ideal. It's something we have to work on together.
I need to sort through a lot of the trauma that caused the ptsd in the first place--that's on me. He needs to learn that no means no, --that's on him.

 

[Leighlee87]

@watundah

I didn't think about putting a third therapist in the midst for us as a couple. That might be a really good idea. I was really thrown off by last week's appointment with his therapist. And I am worried he might be a bit less receptive to my therapist because he would feel like he's playing in our turf, even though I think we will probably have a session or two together with my therapist anyways. So, yeah, I might bring that up with him sometime in the future. It's a matter of convincing him that we need ANOTHER therapist. lol.

 

[Deleted member 8714]

I need to vent. Majorly.

So, my husband and I met with a marriage counselor a few years ago. I didn't feel like she did a whole lot for us, but whatever, things improved as life circumstances improved.

Wow! Wow! Wow! Your story is so much like mine. It's creepy and freaky reading about myself and my husband and our marriage from another perspective. Thank you for sharing.

Ditto for my husband and I too Leighlee87. I assumed a marriage counselor would be the first person to see when there were problems. I soon learned this wasn't the way to go.

It was shortly after I left marriage counseling that I began with the therapist I am seeing now. She is amazing. She has years of experience treating trauma and also works a lot with eating disordered clients. So, she has been an excellent fit.

More recently, I pushed my husband to go see someone for a bit because I know that my PTSD (which developed 3 years ago) has put added pressure on our family, and he seemed to be struggling a bit. So, he decided to go see the same person we saw for marriage counseling. He seems to like her.

Ideally each partner would heal from their own childhood issues first and foremost. Then the marriage counselor would see two whole people rather than two shattered and hurt people.

My husband's therapist told him specifically that if I didn't heal from my abuse first there wouldn't be any marriage. This was back when little was known about childhood abuse causing PTSD. The year was 1989.

Last session, I finally opened up for the first time about some of the issues going on in my marriage. Mainly that there are some major boundary issues when it comes to touch and anything sexual. Basically, my husband doesn't get what he needs in terms of touch or intimacy so he has learned that if he continually gropes me even though I'm begging him not to, I'll eventually relent and have sex just so that he will stop touching me. Or, he'll do things like touch me when I'm sleeping. With a history of Abuse behind me, this ends up being pretty traumatic. So, my therapist asked if I would go with my husband to his therapist and discuss this because she needed to be aware of what was happening. She basically said I was repeatedly being raped and only retraumatizing myself each time it happened. I've never really put the 'r' word with his behavior, but I guess it might be considered that. Either way, it's completely destroyed our relationship.

This was/is my situation to the "T." I can so much relate to everything you've wrote. If my husband touched/touches me when I'm sleeping I suffered/suffer from horrific nightmares and flashbacks with reliving the abuse upon awakening. To me it was psychological and physical rape all wrapped into one giant ball of repetitive abuse.

My father, main perpetrator, forced me to sleep with him. He used to say he owned me and could do whatever he wanted with me. And he did. If I wasn't in his bed, I was sleeping in the nursery just off his bedroom. He had access to me no matter what throughout the night.

It took until 2011 to accept my father was a pedophile, a serial killer, and a psychopath, and treated me like his sex slave. It was then that I finally understood why my husband's touch was so triggering. I wasn't able to articulate this until I put it all together in 2015.

Okay, so I work up the nerve to go, and rehearse what I want to say--how the dynamics between us work, the issue with him craving touch (his love language) and my fear of it, and the serious downward spiral it has created, and that he needs to stop, and even then I don't know how to fix what has been damaged. I hardly got into talking about it, and she quickly changed directions asking that we discuss something else, and that this would be better dealt with by taking my husband to meet with my therapist. Early in the discussion when I was explaining that when I back away from him he sees it as rejection and in response will usually grab me and refuse to let me go. Her response was "because he isn't getting anything he needs." Fast-forward in the conversation, and she states that the reason he is always grabbing at my body is because he's adhd and impulsive, then she insisted on changing topics.

I'm sorry that your husband's therapist dissed you. There's no excuse for your husband's behavior whether he knew about it before he married you or not. It's not respectful. Period. It doesn't matter if touch is his love language or not. It's not acceptable. Nor is it loving.

The hardest part for me was learning to confront my husband's behavior, and the excuses for his behavior. My husband has ADHD like yours. He can control his urges. Believe me. Our ongoing marriage is proof of that. We've been married for 32 years. Along the way, I discovered his love language was not touch, but rather my ability to pick just the right way to say back to him how his behavior and/or words felt to me. He leaned to "feel" them himself and didn't care for the feeling at all. This was how he learned how he hurt me.

It left me feeling like the problem was mine. Because I have a messed up background, because I have issues with touch. That if I were normal, then I wouldn't have any problems with what my husband does. That if I could meet his needs none of this would be happening in the first place.

You're experience is normal for you. Your husband's experience is normal for him. No doubt in my mind he's got abuse issues. They may or may not be sexual. Neglect? The level of pain within you is equal to his level of pain. That's how it works. I chose what was familiar. My husband chose what was familiar.

So, I should take him to see my therapist, so that she can help us figure out how to interact without being triggered, and he can better understand why my responses are the way they are and how to help. What isn't happening, is that he isn't being counseled on the fact that his behavior crosses major lines whether he is married to me or anyone else. He needs to be seeing his counselor about this, not mine.

What helped me was a meeting with both our therapists, my husband, and I at the same time. That way I had an advocate in my court and he had one in his. And the two therapists could guide the conversation in a therapeutic direction. We only had one of these meetings before I then saw my husband's therapist with him. That's when the therapist told my husband that I needed to heal first or there couldn't be a healthy relationship between us.

I had to be super persistent and constantly on alert, telling my husband when he violated my boundaries in any way. Any kind of pursuit felt like violation. If there were flagrant violations they were reported to my therapist and she contacted my husband's therapist. Then my husband was confronted about those abuses.

I'm so angry. I walked away feeling like everything that was happening was my fault. She literally backed him the entire time, and when things began to head in an uncomfortable direction she decided we needed to talk about something else.

I would be angry too. It's definitely not your fault.

Your husband's therapist backing her client should be expected up to a point. After that it wouldn't be healthy for your marriage and his therapist should've known that.

In 2016, my husband and I shared on a very intimate level about his sexual and emotional abuse and neglect. That's when his blinders came off about the damage his unwanted touching, pushy words, and forcing situations had done to me. He finally understood too that I wasn't punishing him for what happened to me. He had taken it personally and believed I sought out to hurt him.

After that our relationship changed drastically. We've settled on a truce.

Though I'll say we're still not intimate sexually with each other we do touch more and more. And he's cautious and gentle. Right now we're both fine with that. Some day we might transition to a more intimate relationship. However, that would take more couples counseling and my husband's not interested in that right now. He doesn't want to have to open up to an outsider about his past either. It took a lot of guts to tell me what he had about his abuse. The first time he disclosed it to anyone.

 

[Friday]

Maybe there are some good things you can take from this appointment?

Like the touch thing isn't just your issue.

Both of you have severe/strong issues surrounding touch, that are each part of your disorder.

(And, yes, needing touch to break disassociation & make things real is about as common with ADHD, as flashbacks & anxiety are surrounding touch with PTSD. The impulsivity, in my own experience, is maybe 10% of that. Or less. It's rarely an impulse issue, except not remembering to "look with your eyes, not your hands" until after you've touched it. The need to touch things is a complicated one, but doing it without realizing it, is just a tiny part of it.)

You went in thinking there was one issue, and have now found out there are two.

 

[scout86]

I just have to add that I admire your restraint. If my ex (or anyone else) decided they were going to 'restrain me until I got used to it', from my perspective, I'd be forced to kill them or die trying. Not saying that's rational or good, but that's the first place I'd go. And I'd see it as purely self defense.