How do you change "plan brain"?

[lostforgottensoul]

Ok, an intresting topic that I thought deserved discussing. I think many may resonate with this and I don't think most would say it's a problem but for me, right now anyway, it is.

So, I have a few threads going centered around one core topic. I'm not going to link them as they aren't really relivant. But the topic seems to be circling around this one thing and I keep going back to it. So here goes.

Oh, and I had no idea where to put this (congnitive dostortion or anxiety or here in general) so please move to the more approrpate area.

My brain is a planner. I always have to be 10 steps ahead of my current circumstances. I always have. I am a survivalist. I had to be.. A plan A, a back up plan B for when plan A fails. A back up plan C for the back up plan B and so forth. The other thread seems to be centering around "but you aren't in this crisis yet" and my brain keeps looping back to "no, but I soon will be and if I'm caught without a few plans I will be in a world of hurt". I don't think the plans are the problem. I think the anxiety and panic around them is. But, I can't seem to calm the panic with "I'm not in the crisis yet" because the reality is I could be tomorrow or the next day and yes even not for another year but my point is, I can't seem to stop the panic that way as my brain always loops back to "yeah, but I soon will be and need a plan for that". Once I have some plans is when the anxiety and panic slow and/or stops.

And it's not some odd thing that may never happen. It will happen. It's just a matter of when.

So, any chronic planners, those with chronic "plan brain", out there? What do you do to ease the panic at this present moment to be able to plan more effecently or more rationally? Or change that need for constant plans.

 

[scout86]

my brain keeps looping back to "no, but I soon will be and if I'm caught without a few plans

That right there seems like a potential problem. I do the "planning" thing too, for similar reasons. Except that it's been my own experience that, even if I have a plan for every letter of the alphabet, something unexpected (good or bad) is going to come up and I'm going to have to improvise. It's good to be good at improvising. It's also helpful to keep a flexible enough mind set so you CAN improvise.

In the case of that quote, you don't actually know WHERE you're going to end up, whether you plan or not. Planning is good, but having the ability to improvise and faith in your ability is good too.

 

[Victory]

I don't have any helpful hints for you at this time, but I wanted you to know that you're not alone. I've been like this for as long as I can remember, yet never realized that my obsessive planning was the result of my need to survive until you mentioned it. My husband and BFF don't do this, and most people give me credit for my efforts, calling me "efficient" as well as "organized," but it's exhausting and keeps my anxiety at an alarming level.
Years ago, I even had a banker ask me if I stayed up nights figuring this stuff out, to which I replied, "YES!" And that's part of the problem...the planning interferes with my sleep and activities, and if I cannot finish my plans, like those on my to-do list, I get very upset and judge myself as less-than, something my low self-esteem doesn't need.
So, thanks for starting this thread. I hope someone out there can give us some tips on how to manage this symptom and still feel like we'll survive it.

 

[MyWillow]

So curious. I’d never thought about this.

My email inboxes (x 6 - Uni student, Uni staff, personal, work, General, Committee) are my To Do lists, every actioned email is filed, my electronic calendars (x 2) are meticulous and filled with meetings, appointments, anniversaries, pet health, and my Notes are detailed. Synced across 5 devices of mine and 2 of my partners. Nothing is left to chance. My f*ck up rate is around 0.05%. Is that normal?

 

[Friday]

Once I get emotionally invested, I have to stop.

*** How I Stop ***

I have another disorder, that one of the primary components of it requires seriously badass emotional monitoring and regulation... because I have virtually no impulse control, and no internal sense of structure. I have to create both, externally.

One of the many tools for that are Time Outs.

There are 2 rules for TimeOuts in my house.

1. They aren’t punishments. They’re a time to let hot emotion fade, and cool reason return.
2. All 4 steps have to be completed before I can come off of TimeOut. Whether that takes 2 minutes, or 2 hours.

Be able to answer the following 4 questions without getting emotionally involved.
- What happened?
- Why did it happen?
- What are at least 2 things I could do differently next time?
(Because there will always be a next time)
- How can I put it to rights? (Or as right as I can make it.)

It’s a super basic tool that I’m often using several times a day. Every day. Under normal circumstances I can use it on the fly. Deep breath & keep moving, or step outside for a smoke or a coffee, and voila. Under extraordinary circumstances it truly does take hours to calm down. And that’s before adding in PTSD stuff. When I have both disorders weighing in on the same symptom? Anxiety, for example, I often have to use both disorder’s tools. Separate out what’s what, and do both. Timeout for the impulse control & emotional M&R, grounding and blowing off steam for disassociation & stress. I can try ignoring one, but all that does is make everything take longer... for no damn good reason. It’s very literally a waste of time. If I really want to sort myself out? I have to look at the problem as a whole & treat it as such.

When I’m describing TimeOuts I’m usually doing so via actions, which are the simplest to explain. (What happened? I hit Tommy in the head with a truck. Why did it happen? I was mad that he took my truck.) It’s a very easy to see past tense / everything already happened kind of tool. If the what happened was “I freaked out.” That’s past tense, too. Even if I am stopping myself in the moment and am still freaking out. The freaking out had to start somewhere. That already happened. Which means it happened for a reason.

I can go ahead and answer those 4 Q’s even whilst freaking the hell out, but I CANNOT come off of timeout until I can answer them calmly.

Not pseudo-calm. It doesn’t matter how calm I appear. And disassociation? Ain’t calm. That’s one of the opposites of calm. I actually have to BE calm.

Once I’m calm normal life can resume. I can even go right back to doing the thing that kicked me over the edge however long ago. Whether the original way, or 1 of the 2+ ways I came up with to do it differently. But if I get emotionally invested, again? I have to go right back on timeout. And start that process all over. There’s no cheating, because I’m playing against myself. Either I AM doing this, or I’m NOT. <<< There are times I choose not to, and choose to freak the f*ck out, or wallow in self pity, or disassociate & not think about it right now if I’ve got other things going on (kids, work, etc.) ...but in that moment it becomes a choice. I could control myself, and I’m choosing not to. (Whatcha doing Friday? // Feeling sorry for myself. // Okay then. When you’re done with that, let me know!) It’s not something I can’t control, it’s something I’m deliberately choosing not to.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

It's good to be good at improvising. It's also helpful to keep a flexible enough mind set so you CAN improvise.

Oh, I totally can improvise. Quite well actually. I guess I should have said these plans are rather rough drafts. Once I can piece together a pretty good plan I will hyper focus on it but i can and do improvise along the way. I just need a rought draft feasable plan first. Then the anxiety and panic settles and I can then focus on said plan. But being unable to piece together a feasable plan has left my brain hyper searching for a plan and the panic is running wild. Simply because I cannot seem to come up with a feasable plan. That's the issue I think. That anxiety and panic and even fear due to not being able to find a plan. It then leaves me unrational and allows my brain to go to very dark areas.

Take training a service dog as an example. It's a good example of this. I took a few months to research, plan out how I was going to approach it, how I was going to fund it, budget that out, become fully aware of the costs, laws, etc. Then I took off and hyper focused on training a service dog. I plowed on through and got a lot of benefit from that but it was a huge distraction. I saw nothing but the training. Thought about nothing but the training. But did improvise a ton during the training. You really have to when training a dog.

But I had zero issue with improvise. Its not that. Its just being unable to form a feaseable, good, rough draft plan that's where the issue is with my brain and how do I settle the anxiety, panic, and fear without first having a plan? Does that make any sense?

It's survival mode. My brain never seems to leave survival mode. My therapist said "but you do have and are already carrying out a plan" but it's not a feasable plan. Its not enough. Not enough to survive. You may have water but do you have enough to survive? And if not you will still die of dehydration even though you had water.

I have no idea if I'm making any sense.

 

[Sideways]

Planning ahead is a great tool.

But like all great tools, it has its limits, yeah? Preoccupation with the future and obsessive planning is a pretty common part of Anxiety. People with Anxiety (which is common with ptsd) tend to get really preoccupied with the “what ifs”. Some people? Just shut down and avoid the things that they think are potentially risky once they’ve run it through their anxious “what if” filter.

But plenty of other people go the other way. And plan. And plan. And get anxious about the plan. So they plan a bit more. And it becomes an obsessive anxiety-feeding process.

So, throwing your anxiety tools at it? Might be really helpful.
“But I’m even more anxious without any plans!”
True. But like I started with: planning itself? Is a useful tool. Just not when it becomes obsessive.

Looking ahead? Okay, you’ve identified that there’s going to be some tough times ahead. For me? I’d throw some ACT based tools at that. First? There’s a limit to what you can control about the future. Some radical acceptance of that fact may be helpful.

Second? If obsessive planning about the future is turning your current world into an anxiety-fuelled hell, then as well as putting aside time to plan? You can continuously bring your brain back to right now. Making the most of right now. That’s a mindfulness strategy, also part of ACT, that recognises that preoccupation with the future? Can bring just as much suffering as preoccupation with the past.

There really is no amount of planning that is going to help you completely control the future. While that kind of control feels safe, it’s also going to becomes increasingly more elusive the more you become preoccupied with it. So, definitely set time to plan ahead. But give yourself some meaningful limits on planning time (similar to what @Friday was talking about), because all the while you’re focusing on the dire and frightening future? You’re missing out on the ‘right now’. And right now is where we derive our pleasant moments and experiences:)

Have some confidence in yourself. You’ve survived a helluva lot through your life. Whatever life is going to throw at you? Take a breath, and realise that hey? Life? Bring it! You can deal with it, whatever it is, when it occurs.

 

[LilyRose]

But like all great tools, it has its limits, yeah? Preoccupation with the future and obsessive planning is a pretty common part of Anxiety. People with Anxiety (which is common with ptsd) tend to get really preoccupied with the “what ifs”. Some people? Just shut down and avoid the things that they think are potentially risky once they’ve run it through their anxious “what if” filter.

i haven't read much here, but omg... is this true? all that time me asking what if... that was anxiety? Didn't even know i had anxiety before a few months ago. I drove my supervisor nuts with my what ifs... She made me stop... told me again and again not to do that anymore and focus on now... and i thought i was just trying to be prepared so i got annoyed because she wouldn't listen.

Sorry if this is off topic :bag:

 

[lostforgottensoul]

But give yourself some meaningful limits on planning time (similar to what @Friday was talking about),

Ok, now "time outs" make a bit more sense in this context. I was having a bit of trouble fitting that into the situation so that makes a bit more sense now. Its a bit opposite, I think, as @Friday was talking about time outs for the anxiety but this is good. I haven't read any ACT stuff nor did I buy the book so will google and see if I can find some free ACT stuff. But dedicating some time to plan and then some time not to plan and to live in today right now and planning is off limits. I can do that, I think. It will take some constant "no, not the time to plan" reminders at first but certianly sounds doable. Thanks!

Sorry if this is off topic

Nah, not at all. Not that I care about my thread going a bit off topic. I like the natural flow of conversation. That tends to help me best most of the time but that was pretty much as on topic as it can be (and helpful).

 

[shimmerz]

I don't think the plans are the problem. I think the anxiety and panic around them is.

Well, I think because if one isn't in survival mode there is loose planning around events and then it becomes a wing it situation when the actual event happens. Because people who think in this way (non survivalists) aren't using all of their energy to make - remake - unmake - make it better - rinse and repeat plans. It is exhausting.

So one quick question for you. When do you know that the plan is a good one? How do you measure that? When can you say 'I have done all I can'? Because if you don't have a 'period' to punctuate the ending, it becomes a run on sentence that actually impedes the thinking process if the catastrophe ever comes to fruition.

 

[Sideways]

It will take some constant "no, not the time to plan" reminders at first but certianly sounds doable.

Awesome! That’s “thought diffusion” (incidentally also from ACT!).

Your brain is going to keep going back to its habitual thinking styles. That’s okay. Brains do that. But if you notice it happening? You give yourself a choice (love those) whether to engage in those thoughts, because it’s planning time, or to bring your brain back to here and now. And (pause for effect) making the most of your here and now!

 

[Fadeaway]

I am being rushed at the moment but could talk about this at length. I have in the past taken it to extreams. I think it's partly a control issue not too unlike from eating disorders. Part obsession and part survival mechanism too.