How Do You Feel About Patriotism?

[Cool Cat]

If you have any Irish links you'll know that St Patricks Day is upon us.
It means lots of viral videos being shared around that make us feel proud to be Irish.
I'm sure everyone has its equivalent.

And like, I don't want to be a total party pooper but like I don't feel any overwhelming pride to be Irish. I'm glad to be from Ireland but there are so many things our country has done or allowed happen. Examples...

> Allowed tens of thousands of children to be physically and sexually abused up until the church institutions for children closed in the late 80's
> Sent thousands of pregnant women who were raped or pregnant out of wedlock to magdalene laundries - some of them for the rest of their lives, up to the 90's
> Where it is illegal to hit a dog, but legal to hit a child
> Where we have one of the highest rates of alcohol consumption in the world
> Where abortion and gay marriage is illegal
> Where seriously ill children and adults get their medical cards taken off them
> Where I was severely bullied by kids at school, and outside of school and loads of people knew or saw it and did nothing to stop it.

And like I could go on.

We have lots of things to be proud of. Athletes, artists, scientists, food, music etc. But theres something that doesn't sit right with me when someone posts loud and proud on their facebook page about how proud they are to be Irish.

 

[digger]

I feel similarly about being British or English. I don't understand patriotism. I personally find it quite a bizarre concept. I don't understand why or how the country I was born in defines anything about who I am. I don't have pride in my country or its history. The achievements of people who happen to have been born in the same part of the world as me, don't have more significance to me because of that, or than those of someone born elsewhere.

 

[Cool Cat]

Yeah like I guess my take on patriotism is I feel it kinda disregards all the bad stuff our countrie(s) have done in recent history, or currently do - it's like saying "Oh I'm okay with [insert atrocity] and I'm proud"

 

[Ronin]

I'm happy being where I am, otherwise I wouldn't be here, what I dislike and can't even with are systemic glitches that would be systemic glitches everywhere & aren't as bad where I am in those respects I need them to not be as bad. As to pride? Hell lately on a gig bf & I both held mins of silence when the anthem was on. When I can do that and mean it, I take it I'm patriotic just fine. It's not a country I'd want to serve, for multitude of reasons. It's not a country whose political culture I like. But culture itself? Yeah.

I have ton of pride for countries I lived in and/or used to be a citizen of, countries where I still have people I consider family. I tend to go with what someone wise told me one day, 'you don't have to have faith in where you were born, or where you are. Have faith in somewhere.' I'm just good with that. Otherwise I'd just drive myself nuts pondering what all is wrong where and how nowhere is better, total sum. Not a mindset I can live with. Not one I want.

 

[shimmerz]

I'm Canadian. We don't have that here.

 

[Anarchy]

One of the best tools that I have found for making sense of the world, is "methodological individualism"

only individuals act

the individuals who sent children or expectant mums to those institutions, and the individuals who held them there, and abused them, are the guilty parties (I seem to remember an "enquiry" which blamed the abusive "industrial schools on British colonialism, as the system dated from before 1916/1917, but forgot to add that the Industrial schools in Britain were closed in around 1918.

To assert that there is a wider "guilt" is like saying that "america" is collectively responsible for the hot coffee that scalded a woman's legs (in a famous personal injury claim against the McDonalds company)...

"countries" only exist in individual's minds.

Even on the Island of Ireland, there is a line drawn on a map, separating the areas where different violent gangs claim to have the right to steal from people and boss them around, caging or even killing them if they disagree. Some see in the badges and costumes worn by the individuals doing that bossing, caging and murdering - the authority to carry out such violence.

"History" is a bit of a misnomer. I can't remember which of Leo Tolstoy's books it was where he points out how long it would take to completely record even one hour of one person's day. How can "history" claim to tell the story of tens of millions of individuals over hundreds or even thousands of years?

A friend and former colleague summed "history" up beautifully when he was having a good humoured argument with people who's ancestors had had their homes burned, their livestock slaughtered and had been caged and starved in concentration camps, on the orders of General Kitchener: "...and you know what, we not only won every war that we've ever fought in, but we were the good guys every time as well..."

Happy Paddy's (and Patty's) day:hug:

 

[illusionist]

I am Scottish, living in England. I have no special pride for the people but I do for the beautiful country it is, and nature.

 

[Kintsugi]

I think a lot of the loudest patriots in the US are not actually defenders of American ideals in myriad ways. I would never serve this country's military, and I do not see myself living in this country forever.

However, there are a great many things about America that I cherish, mostly having to do with the actual geography of the country. I also hold a great respect for the founding fathers of America and those brave British separatists who fought for noble beliefs in the New World.

I do understand the irrational nationalism I feel many Americans have for their country. I'm a (secular) Zionist, so I can connect to the idea that sometimes people feel zealously about a nation to the point where there is really no arguing about it. I'm not particularly proud of this zeal I have; it just is.

 

[Friday]

That's interesting to know that Ireland celebrates St.Patricks day :D I sorta figured all y'all just looked at the nearly 40million Americans wearing IrishPride (loudly), dying whole rivers green, and just kinda snickered.

"According to Census data, there are 39.6 million Americans who claim Irish heritage including five million who say they are of Scots Irish heritage. That number is almost seven times larger than the entire population of Ireland (6.3 million)"

One of my grandmothers was Irish (married an Englishman in secret during the Troubles... Romeo y Julietta, she was Army he was Guardai) and hauled ass over here. In 17? 19? Hafta look it up. So my family has always been kinda private about it. As private as anyone even 1% Irish in Chicago gets, anyway. They were private about it. The grand kids and great grand kids? Not so much.

 

[Cool Cat]

I sorta figured all y'all just looked at the nearly 40million Americans wearing IrishPride (loudly), dying whole rivers green, and just kinda snickered.

even 1% Irish in Chicago gets, anyway.

Nah it is a big thing for us too! The parade is big, it's a big day out and everyone gets the day off.

Funny enough, unlike most Irish people I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with what you call the 1% Irish. I think that if you feel Irish and are proud of it, you are just as entitled as me to say you're Irish. That is a minority opinion. Some Irish people are real a**holes about it.

Last week I saw a Chinese family walking around and their kid had a t-shirt "100% Irish". I'm not Patriotic but I thought it was really cute.

 

[Changing4Best]

I cherish the freedoms we in America still have, but as time goes by, they keep being chiseled away at. I fear the future of my country. The current politicians leave a lot to be desired, even resent ones too, though they may not be in office now. When I was a kid, some 45-45 - 55 yrs ago, there was something to be proud of then. Not any longer though.

 

[Anrish]

I once went to Norway instead of Ireland because there were no free rooms there anymore because of St. Patrick's day. ...and then, we had a St. Patrick's day parade in Oslo. That was rather funny. :p

I don't feel any patriotism for Germany. ...this country is so strict and stale. And you have to be cautious because as soon as you say that you like Germany and you like to be a German - people call you a "Nazi". I didn't live during this period of history, but everyone still wants me to feel ashamed. It's more than 70 years ago! I think it's time to look forward instead of living in the past. You shall never forget it, so you won't make the same mistakes - but Germans still let others dictate certain issues because of the historical blame. And then, there's the day of German reunion...I still call it "National Day of Mourning" for myself. Okay, Eastern and Western Germany are one Germany again - but the Eastern Germans still complain about how nice everything was in the DDR. I would help them to build the wall once more...we may be "one" geographically, but we're not in our minds, not even after more than 25 years! ...I don't feel proud for that Germany.

I live in Hessia (one of the 16 states of Germany) and I feel proud to be from here, but I don't care about Germany. Hessia is one of the smallest countries but it's one of the strongest - and Hessians have their own unique attitude. I just like it. Like the phrase at the Frankfurt airport "There's no way around Hessia", because it's the middle of Germany. :D I only become a bit patriotic when it's about the states in Germany, but not about Germany in total. I don't want to be mixed up with Saxons (that horrible accent!).