How Do You Think?

[scout86]

I wonder what makes it so creepy for you?

I wonder that too. I have a feeling it's a "real thing" because I'd sooner touch a hot stove than try it. Although I'm trying it anyway. Had an incident the other night when a commercial on TV reminded me of a particular day, finger painting, when I was little. I could actually feel the finger paint and then I realized I was "feeling it" with smaller, softer hands than I have now. As soon as I realized that, I was out of there. LOL It was interesting that I could do it, but, yeah, I wonder why it bothers me as much as it does. It's not a neutral thing.

This fascinates me that your T is trying to teach you to do exactly what my T has been trying to help me stop doing.

Yeah...... We haven't talked about this a lot, but did some last week. The very first session, he explained how he "usually" helps people deal with traumatic memories. He said that, usually, traumatic memories are experienced as if they are happening right now. He basically takes people back to the event and tries to help them experience it as if it was "over there, back then" rather than NOW. He uses visualization to do that. He also does hypnosis. So, he told me how he "usually" does this. I was trying to decide if I could beat him to the door, but, of course, didn't say anything. He tried to get me to do some simple visualizations. First, it took awhile to get that he meant "actually seeing stuff like a picture". Then I had a big internal debate about whether I was really "seeing" what he was talking about (my truck) or just remembered what it looked like. (The latter.) That got messy. He took a shot at hypnosis and we found out I can't sit in a room with someone else in it and keep my eyes shut. LOL In fairness to him, I didn't give him much (any?) background information and he was assuming this was going to be a "one incident as an adult" situation. I've talked about this some with a couple other people. My best guess is it's a question of balance and control. I think it's possible to USE dissociation, but it has to be controlled. With you, I'm guessing it's a deal where some part of you decides the best thing to do is "get out of here" so you dissociate. For me, it's like I believe that if I'm not 100% present 100% of the time, something bad will happen. Of course, it might happen anyway, but I feel like I have to keep trying to fix things until it's over. I have a phobia about shots and always used to wish I could faint when I had to have one, but no such luck!

What about when seeing photos or videos of yourself later? Does that feel creepy?

Yes, I hate looking at pictures or videos with me in them and avoid it as best I can. Don't even like looking in a mirror. I've disliked this as long as I can remember. My parents had home movies and it was torture to have to watch movies I was in. I suppose I could try to use this in some sort of desensitization. It would be hard. I really hate the idea. (But don't know why.)

Do you see those changes in video format,

Video. Actually, I see it like it's real and actually happening, but it's a continuous motion, not a series of stills. It's kind of fun to play around with. When I do it, it's kind of like talking to someone else. I'll think/say "The purple is pretty, can you make it blue? Can you make it spin faster? Can you make it rotate the other direction? etc" And it happens. No verbal answers, the scene just does what I wanted it to do. Usually. Not always.

As to thinking and reliving memories maybe people with PTSD remember visually, or are more sensitive to accessing all the senses in thinking and with memories

My T says he suspects that the traumatic memories that people remember are probably more accurate than normal memories. When we access a memory apparently the act of accessing it can change it. Traumatic memories aren't usually accessed like regular memories are. So, if you got PTSD from a car crash, there's a good chance you memory of that crash (however much you remember) will be more accurate and more detailed than someone with a similar experience who didn't get PTSD. He says that's just his best guess, based on talking to people, it's not a scientifically proven fact, as far as he knows. And, of course, for a lot of people there are gaps in what they consciously remember.
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[Go Hungry]

Well.. when I'm manic.. visions just wash over me. It's kinda awesome. When I'm depressed.. I just hear the voices and images of things that make me depressed. Alot of time though, I talk to myself in my head.. or out loud if there is no one about. I don't know... v0v

 

[Changing4Best]

I think in prayers a lot, asking God for things, thanking Him for all the blessings in my life, etc. I think in words mostly, but I do get impulses and also images on occasion.

 

[Rosewater]

Words. Lots of words, all the time no matter what I'm doing. When I'm really distressed it takes the form of speaking to others, imagining interactions in which I'm articulating things I need to say of thoughts I need to develop.

Before I had this condition I would normally think in images and logical trains of thought. Sometimes if I was stressed there would be an imagined dialogue with the people stressing me.

 

[Ronin]

I think in moves & visuals & snippets of words, when I'm thinking.

When I'm not, in fragments of images and way louder snippets of words, or just siiilence. Thinking in silence usually drags me so I try to distract it with music, or finding something in the silence I can enjoy, or some silence that brings peace.

And in feelings in terms of do x don't, regardless of how I'm doing. Accomodating enough all the difficulty I have with regular dissociation. When I'm doing well, it becomes a palette of colors and blurred feelings, or a clear headed unfeeling.

 

[Hope4Now]

I LOVE this thread!!! So meta-consciousness!

I just went to pour myself a cup of coffee and think about (lol) how I think. I realized that I think in all sorts of different ways all the time. I wish I could turn off my brain sometimes because it is exhausting. Constant noise in the head...visual and verbal.

I have a hyper-verbal part both inside my head and externally (witness my endless posts). I also have a hyper-visual part that can be "on" at the same time. But sometimes I am verbal only, or visual only. It is interesting to consider through this thinking lens one of the oddities I always had/have in my life. I am a writer and an artist among other things. When I am creating art (visual), I have this simultaneous drive to write. When I am writing, I have a simultaneous drive to create art. It used to drive me crazy well into my twenties until I finally gave up art and destroyed pretty much everything I had created and dedicated myself to words. But I was never satisfied. After my great meltdown, I have begun doing art again. And I am learning approaches to work with these two parts of me...to alternate. And also to use verbal stuff in my art and art stuff in my writing. It is all quite exciting to me.

I'm writing about creative work instead of thinking because for me they are the same thing. When I'm thinking I'm usually creating. It is actually a bit of a problem for me. Keeps me kind of disconnected from my immediate experience.

I am beginning to realize, as I learn to inhabit my body a bit more, that I also can think with my body--beyond the visual and verbal. I hear music and sound that are part of thinking (just bought a drum...yay) and link to memories. (Memories being anything from the just experienced moment all the way back to young childhood.) Smells link to memories. Tastes link to memories. And my kinesthetic movement awareness has allowed me huge breakthroughs...

Because when I can think with my body...which doesn't really seem like thinking to me...more like just being and knowing...it is quite fabulous (except when my stupid body gives me body memories/body flashbacks :yuck:). When I can think by focusing on the link between my SELF (which lives outside my body but is sort of connected to it) and my Self (brain-body consciousness) and feel my body in here and now, then I just get this lovely calm knowing. It isn't even thinking. It's just being. Or doing. And if I can maintain it just a little, then I'm able to layer on words and images. And have a connected conversation, or create really cool and authentic bits of writing or art. Or have fun kicking through the leaves or jumping in puddles or lots of things. Or tune into the existence of all these fragmented parts of myself :bag::confused::cool:. It feels like being alive in a whole person, and I want that. Because I spent most of my life living in one tiny little rigid part after another.

I'm not even going to look at what I just wrote. I know it sounds bizarre. But then, I am bizarre. So...just hitting post and moving on.

 

[Hope4Now]

It is like an angel sitting on my shoulder, attempting to guide me. The counterpart is like a personal trainer sitting on my other shoulder, attempting to make me see how much better I should be doing. The neutral part is the one that is attempting to cool down my personal trainer. To calm down the expectations that it throws at me with great consistency.

It isn't in pictures or words. It is more like a 'knowing'. It doesn't feel separate from me, but instead a part of me.

This is cool! Parts stuff! My internal "conversations" are a bit like this. Mine are mostly all-out guerrilla warfare, but I'm learning to listen and respond more gently. I have yet to figure out if my "neutral" part is the same as my "observer" part, or is actually my SELF. Those two are pretty intertwined. They oversee a kind of triumvirate that makes up my executive function: my "thinker," my my "coach," and my "creator."

I am still working on convincing myself that they are me...parts of me. I mean it's not like I think they are somebody else. It's just that I don't quite yet have a concept of one "me." I'm getting there. Takes a long time to retrain the brain.

For you to have a part that could decide to do that, it must have existed before you learned about ho'oponopono. What did it do before that?

Maybe if it is the SELF, it is the larger self that existed/exists outside of trauma?

not just a single track. There might be verbal, like talking to myself, but I'm actually talking to representations of people in my head, kind of like avatars. I don't actually hear them speak back, but I do get impressions of what they intend to communicate back. This isn't, like, schizophrenia voices...I know all of these thoughts are mine. It's just...having thoughts from other people's perspectives, as if those people were involved in this internal dialog with me. (My T says this is a form of dissociation.)

Wow, this sounds familiar.

And MY T says that one of his goals is for "his voice" being automatically in my head when it's useful and he's not around! (And, I can particularly hear him saying "You might want to come up with a better way of thinking of that. LOL)

:):):) This bit of what you say just made me really happy. Because this is what has been happening to me for a while and I have felt like such a weirdo. I only recently told my therapist about it because I found it so disturbing that I keep hearing his voice inside of my head. "Ask that part to give you a little space." "That's a part talking." "Breathe." etc. etc. It has been extremely helpful to me, but it freaks me out at the same time...like somehow I've hijacked his energy for my own purposes.

When I finally got up the courage to tell him about this recently, I think he said it was good. That it was at least a voice providing something more positive than what I usually get. So it is really helpful to hear that your therapist (who seems to be an amazingly wise person) says it is one of his goals. Wow!

I've never heard of anyone who converses with more than one person at a time (though they might just have not told me because they don't want to sound crazy, lol).

Ummm...now you have. Until fairly recently, it never felt like "conversation" much. It does so more now. If I told anybody the kinds of conversations that have gone on in my head during the past month or so... Well, I wouldn't. Except maybe on this forum. I still find it extremely difficult to acknowledge outside of my own head the level of weirdness I experience. It is really helpful to read your comments in this thread!

sometimes I even see the sentences diagrammed like we used to do back in school, lol.

LOL LOL LOL! :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao: This happens to me sometimes! Sometimes it cracks me up, other times it sends me into a sticky spiral of icky memory because of the person who was my English teacher for middle school. I survived some really nasty, scary nuns. But I have a solid linguistic foundation. So something good came of it.

he'd like me to be able to visualize things in a way that allows me to see it from both "inside" and "outside" the picture.

Yes, this seems to be the goal. I suck at it. We've kind of dabbled here and there, and mostly I can't do it. Just tips me into the void. The other trick for processing trauma memories is to somehow balance empathy and compassion..."feeling" in the same way as "seeing" from inside and outside.

Then I had a big internal debate about whether I was really "seeing" what he was talking about (my truck) or just remembered what it looked like. (The latter.)

YES! I still struggle with this! Like what is the actual difference between "seeing" and "remembering what something looks like"? Because memories ARE reconstructions. Which is why memory is notoriously unreliable. Because each new moment of lived experience gets mapped into whatever memory we pull up into consciousness, so no memory is ever the same as it was when we experienced it.

With you, I'm guessing it's a deal where some part of you decides the best thing to do is "get out of here" so you dissociate. For me, it's like I believe that if I'm not 100% present 100% of the time, something bad will happen. Of course, it might happen anyway, but I feel like I have to keep trying to fix things until it's over. I have a phobia about shots and always used to wish I could faint when I had to have one, but no such luck!

I have the lovely experience of both of these problems...hypervigilance and dissociation. Depends on which part I am in at any given moment. My caretaker parts are hypervigilant. My exiled/wounded parts are dissociative. "I" am kind of stuck in between, zooming from one to the other, sometimes at the same time (e.g., mind 100% hypervigilant, body frozen). :wacky::banghead::yuck:.

 

[DogwoodTree]

When I am creating art (visual), I have this simultaneous drive to write. When I am writing, I have a simultaneous drive to create art.

Maybe you could create Dr. Seuss-like writing/art. You could even do Dr. Seuss-like art-writing-combined stuff designed for adults...whimsical art to complement thoughtful and emotional explorations of the human experience.

 

[scout86]

Like what is the actual difference between "seeing" and "remembering what something looks like"?

Well, I guess that "seeing" you actually SEE stuff. As a picture/movie type thing that is. I "see" things in my dreams, for example. color and all. But, my dreams are like life, I'm in the scene, moving around, talking, hearing, seeing, just like in the "real" world. My T says that he didn't dream in pictures when he was younger and thought people were making that up. Since he's practiced visualization, he can "see" pictures and also often dreams in pictures. When I've been practicing visualization, his suggestion was to start with something positive that I know well, like a favorite horse. Absolutely can't do it (yet). But, one day I was working on it and asked myself, in frustration "Why can't I see pictures?!" and suddenly, clear as could be, I could "see" this painting of some old banker looking guy on the wall. I could have told you how many buttons were on his suit coat and counted the pin stripes. The he was gone. I have NO idea who that was supposed to be. My T thought it was hilarious that even THAT part of my brain has a weird sense of humor. (Well, you asked to see a picture, you didn't say of what!) So far, the few things I have had show up are things I've never seen in real life. But, I "see" them as clearly as I see my computer screen right now. I can actually pull information from the picture and can see more details the longer I look. It's not like "remembering" what my truck looks like. With this, there's information in the picture that I don't actively recall. Doesn't mean it's accurate. (And, so far, it's all imaginary.)

 

[Tinyflame]

I don't even know how I think. Many trains of thought, not so much visuals (unless they're memories) though something I see usually provokes a train of thought on it's own. I'm usually (often) saying a prayer but thinking, often worrying, & watching, sometimes reading too, & walking, or talking, at the same time. I don't know how people can think primarily in visuals (I think that's wonderful!) & still be even remotely aware of their surroundings though. But then, I overthink. :rolleyes: I have internal dialogue but do not 'imagine' others' responses, I just prepare (cringe?) for the possibilities. I'm often thinking of things totally unrelated to what I'm talking to others about. Then I have to hide what I'm feeling physically because it usually has nothing to do with the conversation.

I think in 'feelings' a lot. I dream in visuals/ pictures (action). I draw pictures for problems. I color-code things to remember & based on how they 'feel', the emotion atm. (Yes I know- weird. :rolleyes: ) Usually there's a song playing in my head in the background, I'm starting to notice. Usually I have one prevailing emotion that dictates whatever thoughts follow (eg worry, fear, terror, sadness). I don't have nearly as many trains of thoughts when I'm happy. And when I'm really sad I can't bring many thoughts/ actions to conclusion. And I'm sure plenty of 'cognitive distortions'. And I'm not kind to myself.

I'm a mess, lol.

 

[Hope4Now]

Well, I guess that "seeing" you actually SEE stuff.

I'm still needing to reflect on the rest of your post. I'm spinning a bit, to tell you the truth. It's making me really try to figure out what I actually see in my mind's eye vs. "see" as a memory. Thanks for bending my brain! :):woot:

 

[DogwoodTree]

But, my dreams are like life, I'm in the scene, moving around, talking, hearing, seeing, just like in the "real" world. My T says that he didn't dream in pictures when he was younger and thought people were making that up. Since he's practiced visualization, he can "see" pictures and also often dreams in pictures.

Wait, some people dream without seeing pictures at all? How???

My dreams are vivid...not just pictures, but videos/audio, and I'm part of what's going on--it feels very real. I read one time that people don't see colors in dreams, but I absolutely do. In fact, sometimes the colors are what really stand out as being meaningful in the dream.